Chef Jim Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 And I will tell you what I've been saying all along, it's innocent until proven guilty, not guilt by association or skin color. If the boys in blue aren't playing by those rules (which they aren't) that's a violation of every fundamental right we supposedly hold as American citizens. And the boys in blue are not playing by those rules? And you're basing this on what? Do you reach up your ass to pull this out or do you read your turds like tea leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I'm not pretending it's a fantasy. In fact, I said it happens. I agree with you that black citizens are treated harsher. I think that's common knowledge. The only thing that I'm offering is a reason why black citizens are being treated harsher. And yeah, I know, it's wrong to judge a book by its cover. Don't get your back up with a moral high ground here. When I avoid an adolescent black guy with tatoos on the street, I know I'm being prejudiced. I also know I'm being prudent. Sure, he could be a nice guy. But I'm not gonna bet my life on it. And cops are human. There are cops like me. I'm sure there are cops that started out like you and the years and violence in urban communities drained that from them. Similar to how doctors start out with a deep reverence for life and then become jaded. No one, least of all me is talking about people on the street, we are talking about LEO. As a private citizen you can have whatever prejudices you wish because you don't enforce the law. Law enforcement officers are supposed to be held to a higher standard. So far, no one other than a select few are arguing that the unconstitutional discrimination continuously displayed by LEO across the country is real -- instead everyone here is justifying it as necessary. That's not only disingenuous, it's dangerous. Because sooner or later you're going the be the minority and you're going the be persecuted simply because you look different. That isn't what this country is supposed to be about in theory -- but it certainly isn't how this country's legal system is supposed to operate. And the boys in blue are not playing by those rules? And you're basing this on what? Do you reach up your ass to pull this out or do you read your turds like tea leaves. First hand experience, a decade of working closely with LEO in several municipalities across the country. This isn't theoretical, it's earned experience. So, I got style? So what? Don't wear it out. What would my skin color have anything to do with anything? We're on the internet for Jimmy Crickets sake. Skin color has everything to do with it -- which is the point. And you know it over wise you wouldn't be misrepresenting yourself as a person of color when you are in fact not. You're busting balls because you have no ground to stand on. I get it, you can't argue this point rationally so you resort to busting balls. It's funny, but also counterproductive when you use it to hide behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 No one, least of all me is talking about people on the street, we are talking about LEO. As a private citizen you can have whatever prejudices you wish because you don't enforce the law. Law enforcement officers are supposed to be held to a higher standard. So far, no one other than a select few are arguing that the unconstitutional discrimination continuously displayed by LEO across the country is real -- instead everyone here is justifying it as necessary. That's not only disingenuous, it's dangerous. Because sooner or later you're going the be the minority and you're going the be persecuted simply because you look different. That isn't what this country is supposed to be about in theory -- but it certainly isn't how this country's legal system is supposed to operate. First hand experience, a decade of working closely with LEO in several municipalities across the country. This isn't theoretical, it's earned experience. Skin color has everything to do with it -- which is the point. And you know it over wise you wouldn't be misrepresenting yourself as a person of color when you are in fact not. You're busting balls because you have no ground to stand on. I get it, you can't argue this point rationally so you resort to busting balls. It's funny, but also counterproductive when you use it to hide behind. you mean like this http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) No one, least of all me is talking about people on the street, we are talking about LEO. As a private citizen you can have whatever prejudices you wish because you don't enforce the law. Law enforcement officers are supposed to be held to a higher standard. So far, no one other than a select few are arguing that the unconstitutional discrimination continuously displayed by LEO across the country is real -- instead everyone here is justifying it as necessary. That's not only disingenuous, it's dangerous. Because sooner or later you're going the be the minority and you're going the be persecuted simply because you look different. That isn't what this country is supposed to be about in theory -- but it certainly isn't how this country's legal system is supposed to operate. First hand experience, a decade of working closely with LEO in several municipalities across the country. This isn't theoretical, it's earned experience. Skin color has everything to do with it -- which is the point. And you know it over wise you wouldn't be misrepresenting yourself as a person of color when you are in fact not. You're busting balls because you have no ground to stand on. I get it, you can't argue this point rationally so you resort to busting balls. It's funny, but also counterproductive when you use it to hide behind. How do you eliminate prejudice in police officers? See, I brought up how I feel, because guys like me are in the force. They aren't robots. Edited August 16, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Coming home from work today @ midnight, I was followed through my town. No cars behind me and all of a sudden a car speeds up behind me, I realized it was a cop. I was doing the speed limit... Probably read my plate? Followed me all the way home. I wanted to thank them for the escort, but didn't want to get into it. I can just imagine if my skin was black. How many times do you get harassed and then finally blow? That's the real problem for some. When they say: "Not today!" People can only take so much before they trip themselves up and mistep by not being perfect. The cops will go on a "fishing expedition" and find something you are doing or did wrong. Its hard to trust cops, especially for some people who are being harrassed all the time. It trickles down and reaches the youth who get instilled with a bad atitude towards policing. I know Firechan said that cops aren't robots... But citizens aren't either... Everybody isn't perfect. Get sucked into the abyss that is the legal system and you are in for a world of hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keukasmallies Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 EiI says it very well. A wrong word or action in a seemingly innocuous situation can mushroom into an Al Sharpton moment quicker than kiss a duck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Chicken and egg. Are cops inherently racist, or are they playing the odds in working in high crime areas and are biased based on the crime incidents? You say that it's not about the color, but there is a high correlation between color and crime in certain neighborhoods. Ironically, cops' racial profiling benefits the black community because they are more likely victims. Want to change the cops behavior, change the crime statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 you mean like this http://www.thedailyb...bloody-lie.html Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Just so that everyone understands the difference: Racial profiling is illegal. Criminal profiling is not illegal, and is an excellent tool in the arsenal of a law enforcement officer. Law enforcement agencies go to GREAT lengths to make sure that their officers are not engaging in racial profiling. Some people fail to understand that law enforcement agencies are run by uber liability conscious bean counters. They are not run by hard charging street cops. The bean counters do every thing in their power to make sure that the agency, and by proxy the city/county/state, is free from any kind of civil or criminal liability. Policies are written. Redundant policies are written. Data collection programs capture the stats regarding the age/race/sex of every person stopped. In car cameras, and in some places body cameras, record the contact and every word said. It's funny. So many people talk about how cops aren't the same today as they were 30 years ago. They are right, we aren't. Racial profiling was rampant then. People were beaten by police, and no reports written with no questions asked. Today's police force is better equipped, more efficient, and more professional. Racial profiling is a serious, serious allegation that usually ends up with the officer being fired and the city/county/state doling out massive amounts of dollars. I am not saying that some cops don't do it. We have our bad apples, but it is not nearly at the level that some people insist that it is because they have gone on a couple of ride alongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Today's police force is better equipped, more efficient, and more professional. The video camera helped bring that about. Rodney King was tip of ice berg in the recording of usually "silent" events. And now we see more and more charges against people and cops for tampering with video evidence like we saw with at the Molly's Pub incident in Buffalo that involved cops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 The video camera helped bring that about. Rodney King was tip of ice berg in the recording of usually "silent" events. And now we see more and more charges against people and cops for tampering with video evidence like we saw with at the Molly's Pub incident in Buffalo that involved cops Cameras were a major impetus for the change no doubt. With the proliferation of cameras, now the issue is with selective editing and the monday morning quarterbacking of cops by people who have no earthly idea of what they are seeing, but by golly they have an opinion on it. If only we had a body cam on this cop, this mess could have been avoided. Something deep down (common sense?) tells me he didnt gun down a man who posed no immediate threat "execution style" in broad daylight in front of 25 witnesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Cameras were a major impetus for the change no doubt. With the proliferation of cameras, now the issue is with selective editing and the monday morning quarterbacking of cops by people who have no earthly idea of what they are seeing, but by golly they have an opinion on it. If only we had a body cam on this cop, this mess could have been avoided. Something deep down (common sense?) tells me he didnt gun down a man who posed no immediate threat "execution style" in broad daylight in front of 25 witnesses. I have a hard time believing that too. Perhaps all cops will have to wear google glasses in the future. The riots really hurt the cops because they can't round up all the witnesses and get their stories down for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Something deep down (common sense?) tells me he didnt gun down a man who posed no immediate threat "execution style" in broad daylight in front of 25 witnesses. Common sense is one name for it but the more technical term is Occum's Shaver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Just so that everyone understands the difference: Racial profiling is illegal. Criminal profiling is not illegal, and is an excellent tool in the arsenal of a law enforcement officer. Law enforcement agencies go to GREAT lengths to make sure that their officers are not engaging in racial profiling. Some people fail to understand that law enforcement agencies are run by uber liability conscious bean counters. They are not run by hard charging street cops. The bean counters do every thing in their power to make sure that the agency, and by proxy the city/county/state, is free from any kind of civil or criminal liability. Policies are written. Redundant policies are written. Data collection programs capture the stats regarding the age/race/sex of every person stopped. In car cameras, and in some places body cameras, record the contact and every word said. It's funny. So many people talk about how cops aren't the same today as they were 30 years ago. They are right, we aren't. Racial profiling was rampant then. People were beaten by police, and no reports written with no questions asked. Today's police force is better equipped, more efficient, and more professional. Racial profiling is a serious, serious allegation that usually ends up with the officer being fired and the city/county/state doling out massive amounts of dollars. I am not saying that some cops don't do it. We have our bad apples, but it is not nearly at the level that some people insist that it is because they have gone on a couple of ride alongs. Since this was clearly directed at me it should be noted I have never said that it occurs at alarming levels, merely that it happens more frequently than folks like rob, jboyst and the others arguing it's a myth (or somehow the fault of the minorities themselves). I've also had more than a few ride alongside and continue to work closely with federal and local law enforcement agencies. These are men and women I consider friends, I am not slamming the entirety of law enforcement, only the white blinders that so many on here have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 http://news.yahoo.com/photos-ferguson-officer-darren-wilson-received-police-award-earlier-this-year-021255893.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) No one, least of all me is talking about people on the street, we are talking about LEO. As a private citizen you can have whatever prejudices you wish because you don't enforce the law. Law enforcement officers are supposed to be held to a higher standard. So far, no one other than a select few are arguing that the unconstitutional discrimination continuously displayed by LEO across the country is real -- instead everyone here is justifying it as necessary. That's not only disingenuous, it's dangerous. Because sooner or later you're going the be the minority and you're going the be persecuted simply because you look different. That isn't what this country is supposed to be about in theory -- but it certainly isn't how this country's legal system is supposed to operate. First hand experience, a decade of working closely with LEO in several municipalities across the country. This isn't theoretical, it's earned experience. Skin color has everything to do with it -- which is the point. And you know it over wise you wouldn't be misrepresenting yourself as a person of color when you are in fact not. You're busting balls because you have no ground to stand on. I get it, you can't argue this point rationally so you resort to busting balls. It's funny, but also counterproductive when you use it to hide behind. why does it? Because you feel it does? Who are you? I don't know what you are talking about but I have no reason to care. So because I am not black it matters what I say on the internet? Interesting. Pff I'll even help you make me look so evil. I could give a crap some ghetto hood rat is dead the guy has a record that shows he was likely just a drain on society. The world is suffering from many problems, racism, sexism, all discrimination - just awful. But, we suffer from ignorance when events like this celebrate such weak principals that further expand the ignorance to down right hatred. This will do nothing but drive a wedge between those whom care and don't care. And those that don't care are the victims Edited August 16, 2014 by jboyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 (edited) EiI says it very well. A wrong word or action in a seemingly innocuous situation can mushroom into an Al Sharpton moment quicker than kiss a duck. YEP! And it did for me last summer... I was coming home from third shift @ 0830 and was followed through town. Once he stopped me, I was in no mood being tired and wanting to get to bed! He said he was "running plates." I had a cover on mine that a State Trooper harassed me a month earlier... Same thing, coming home from work on the expressway @ 0830. Let me go when I said it was on my Jeep for 7 years and not a problem, never stopped until now! I told him I will take off, he said: "No that's okay." Maybe I should take it off so as to avoid any "fishing expeditions?" Well fast forward to the time getting followed last year. He went on a fishing expedition when he couldn't find anything... I had a crack in the windshield that was not obstructing... All the way over on the passenger pillar... That didn't matter, I showed him the law on my phone... Made him even more mad... Wrote the ticket anyway. I went to court, lost. Went to appeal, lost,... then appealed the Chief of Police before going to the county level... He threw it out. Said it was "a learning situation." Now... Just imagine if I didn't have the resources to fight the system... Or I did it half-azzed... Or my skin was a different color... I would be in for a world of hurt against the system. The key here is EDUCATION, EDUCATION, & MORE EDUCATION! The system is stacked and NOT in your favor... You have to be like an OCD lawyer to get anywhere within the workings of it! Edited August 16, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 YEP! And it did for me last summer... I was coming home from third shift @ 0830 and was followed through town. Once he stopped me, I was in no mood being tired and wanting to get to bed! He said he was "running plates." I had a cover on mine that a State Trooper harassed me a month earlier... Same thing, coming home from work on the expressway @ 0830. Let me go when I said it was on my Jeep for 7 years and not a problem, never stopped until now! I told him I will take off, he said: "No that's okay." Maybe I should take it off so as to avoid any "fishing expeditions?" Well fast forward to the time getting followed last year. He went on a fishing expedition when he couldn't find anything... I had a crack in the windshield that was not obstructing... All the way over on the passenger pillar... That didn't matter, I showed him the law on my phone... Made him even more mad... Wrote the ticket anyway. I went to court, lost. Went to appeal, lost,... then appealed the Chief of Police before going to the county level... He threw it out. Said it was "a learning situation." Now... Just imagine if I didn't have the resources to fight the system... Or I did it half-azzed... Or my skin was a different color... I would be in for a world of hurt against the system. The key here is EDUCATION, EDUCATION, & MORE EDUCATION! The system is stacked and NOT in your favor... You have to be like an OCD lawyer to get anywhere within the workings of it! so, if a halfwit like you could do it, what stops someone of another race? i don't get it, at all. is it that they lack an EDUCATION, EDUCATION, & MORE EDUCATION? Or are they just half-azzed and would rather B word about it instead of actually do something about it than just call it profiling to get someone to listen? I guess that goes hand in hand in with this: maybe they realize the victim card gets them somewhere because our system has been set up to give people free rides and parent them whilst removing responsibility for/from them. So, yeah, rethink you're warped viewpoint from a tube and see if you might be looking at this wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 . I could give a crap some ghetto hood rat is dead the guy has a record that shows he was likely just a drain on society. T Ya, you are trash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Ya, you are trash and you know what is funny, i don't care that you think that or anyone else... just because you come from a hard off situation doesn't mean you can't better yourself. just because you mess up or make bad choices doesn't mean you can't come back and straighten your life up. this kid, by all reports was not going to be on the path to straightening up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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