birdog1960 Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) it's about time. we'll see if the insider lobbyists are able to stop this attack on legalized loan sharking: http://finance.yahoo...-201715917.html. john oliver effect again. rock on john! if you haven't seen his bit on this, you should. Edited August 13, 2014 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) And with that dies the ability of poor people to get unsecured loans which they may need to deal with unexpected dire circumstances. Great work attacking the poor, limousine liberals. As always, you think you know what's best for them, and as such, you have cut off an option that allowed may to keep the lights on, feed the family, or put a roof over their heads. Edited August 13, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 And with that dies the ability of poor people to get unsecured loans which they may need to deal with unexpected dire circumstances. Great work attacking the poor, limousine liberals. As always, you think you know what's best for them, and as such, you have cut off an option that allowed may to keep the lights on, feed the family, or put a roof over their heads. Sorry, but this is true predator lending at its worse. There can be other ways to help poor people financially without this being an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 It's no secret, I've mentioned it before, I've done payday loans, but only when I knew I could pay it back quickly. Longest I ever had loan was one month. There are some "decent" companies (Advance Me Today), and others to avoid (Western Sky/Cash Call). Due to NY suing Cash Call, I recently got a check back for a little over $1K. I only used them when I had a need, not a want, for some extra cash quick, and knew I could pay it back quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 Sorry, but this is true predator lending at its worse. There can be other ways to help poor people financially without this being an option. It's not predatory at all. It's an unsecured loan to an individual who has demonstrated that they are financially unreliable. Make me a list of all other unsecured loan options for these individuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 It's no secret, I've mentioned it before, I've done payday loans, but only when I knew I could pay it back quickly. Longest I ever had loan was one month. There are some "decent" companies (Advance Me Today), and others to avoid (Western Sky/Cash Call). Due to NY suing Cash Call, I recently got a check back for a little over $1K. I only used them when I had a need, not a want, for some extra cash quick, and knew I could pay it back quick. reasonable regulation would be a happy medium here. the fact that they ripped you off for 1k speaks for itself. the business model of most of these companies relies on churning the loans. the data shows that they are very successful at it. conditions should be enforced that allow the ethical companies to continue and the outright thieves to disappear. oliver stated that there are more payday lender locations than mcdonalds and starbucks combined. i think this points to a more fundamental problem in our economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 It's not predatory at all. It's an unsecured loan to an individual who has demonstrated that they are financially unreliable. Make me a list of all other unsecured loan options for these individuals. My problem is the amount of the fees, especially if you start rolling your loans. It can quickly take someone from a bad situation to a horrible situation on a technicality. While I am a dedicated free market guy, I would have no problem putting caps on the fees for rollovers to protect the most vulnerable, but best-intentioned consumers. And to take logic out of it, it's just flat out taking advantage of the very poor. I find it difficult to believe we can't collectively find a better way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 My problem is the amount of the fees, especially if you start rolling your loans. It can quickly take someone from a bad situation to a horrible situation on a technicality. While I am a dedicated free market guy, I would have no problem putting caps on the fees for rollovers to protect the most vulnerable, but best-intentioned consumers. And to take logic out of it, it's just flat out taking advantage of the very poor. I find it difficult to believe we can't collectively find a better way. The problem is, like with any lending institution, the ROI for the lender. Payday loans have an incredibly low prompt repayment percentage. That's the reason for the interest rate and rollover policy. Without them, loans simply wouldn't exist for these people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 The problem is, like with any lending institution, the ROI for the lender. Payday loans have an incredibly low prompt repayment percentage. That's the reason for the interest rate and rollover policy. Without them, loans simply wouldn't exist for these people. If you capped the return, or just reduced the number of rollovers allowed, the loans would still exist in some manner because the market would find a way to get that money from the poor anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 If you capped the return, or just reduced the number of rollovers allowed, the loans would still exist in some manner because the market would find a way to get that money from the poor anyway. So the solutions are a cap on earnings and a reduction of the ability of the lender to recoup the money he has loaned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 So the solutions are a cap on earnings and a reduction of the ability of the lender to recoup the money he has loaned? No one said anything about reducing the ability of the lender to recoup their money. If you're stupid enough to keep loaning money to people who can't afford to pay it back, then you get what you deserve if they can't pay it back. But instead of trying to sound clever, try to sound a bit more human. The rollover cycle can ruin people worst than whatever pending financial hardships they are facing, but they're too desperate to do anything but reach out for whatever dirtbag is willing to take advantage of them. What I'm saying is I want a way to keep dirtbags from dragging the truly poor and needy through the muck simply because being dragged through the muck is their last option. At some point, we need to do even a slightly better job of looking out for people who genuinely have no ability to look out for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 No one said anything about reducing the ability of the lender to recoup their money. If you're stupid enough to keep loaning money to people who can't afford to pay it back, then you get what you deserve if they can't pay it back. But instead of trying to sound clever, try to sound a bit more human. The rollover cycle can ruin people worst than whatever pending financial hardships they are facing, but they're too desperate to do anything but reach out for whatever dirtbag is willing to take advantage of them. What I'm saying is I want a way to keep dirtbags from dragging the truly poor and needy through the muck simply because being dragged through the muck is their last option. At some point, we need to do even a slightly better job of looking out for people who genuinely have no ability to look out for themselves. wow. i need to document this before you change your mind and delete it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 wow. i need to document this before you change your mind and delete it. The problem with people like yourself is you're so brainwashed to think conservatives actually want everyone to either fend for themselves or die, that you miss the greater point of our message of self-accountability. The other problem is your ridiculous need to always group the truly helpless and the truly clueless in the same category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 The problem with people like yourself is you're so brainwashed to think conservatives actually want everyone to either fend for themselves or die, that you miss the greater point of our message of self-accountability. The other problem is your ridiculous need to always group the truly helpless and the truly clueless in the same category. in which camp do the palestinians fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 in which camp do the palestinians fall? I guess that depends on how many times they roll over their payday loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I guess that depends on how many times they roll over their payday loans. Their religion does not allow them to pay interest. in which camp do the palestinians fall? That's it, hijack your own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) No one said anything about reducing the ability of the lender to recoup their money. If you're stupid enough to keep loaning money to people who can't afford to pay it back, then you get what you deserve if they can't pay it back. Actually, you did, though you didn't realize it. You're advocating restrictions that make it prohibitively difficult for a business to lend money to the poor, which does nothing but hurt those poor who are at their final option. The current system is the only one in which the ROI's make sense and make the business viable. But instead of trying to sound clever, try to sound a bit more human. The rollover cycle can ruin people worst than whatever pending financial hardships they are facing, but they're too desperate to do anything but reach out for whatever dirtbag is willing to take advantage of them. What I'm saying is I want a way to keep dirtbags from dragging the truly poor and needy through the muck simply because being dragged through the muck is their last option. This is what you get for trying to feel your way through difficult problems. The "dirtbag" isn't taking advantage of them, he's making a viable business decision which allows him to loan money to a desperate person, whom, without said "dirtbag", is likely already homeless, unable to get to work, or unable to feed their kids. At some point, we need to do even a slightly better job of looking out for people who genuinely have no ability to look out for themselves. And your version of help is to remove their last option, and make sure that they can't borrow the money they need. Unless this collective "we" you're talking about is a government program intended to give unsecured loans to people who we know can pay them back. /golfclap Edited August 13, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 /golfclap So to recap your argument, all payday loans exist to keep people out of desperate homelessness and save children from starving...all at 400% interest. Got it. I think you're picking an argument for the sake of picking an argument. Perhaps gator will return to be your chew toy, but this isn't an all-or-nothing discussion. The people who find themselves relentlessly stuck in the payday loan cycle are the very people who genuinely need help. No, not an unsecured government loan, you fool, but real help. The proverbial hand up, so to speak. I think if, as you argue, that the very last line drawn between homelessness and starving children is a payday loan store, then we're in a bigger schithole than either of us imagined, and there's no satisfaction in being right about this topic from either angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) I'd vote to limit interest, and rollovers on payday (or title, or whatever short term) loans. Yes, it'd hurt the profits of some of these companies, but it'd also save a lot of poor people from ruining their already fragile financial situations. If the availability of these loans becomes scarce, there's also another option... a non profit entity, such as local governments, or charities, entering into the market. It's a sticky situation, with no real easy answer. The best thing, for the moment, is educational movements, which hopefully videos like Oliver's delivers. Edited August 13, 2014 by Dorkington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 I'm with LA on this one. Usury should not be condoned. If a loan company can't "afford to loan money" except at exorbitant rates, then they shouldn't make the loan. There are a lot of people that are in need - and not because they're slow, dim-witted, and lazy. They don't have two nickels to rub together and few prospects of raising themselves up and improving their lot in life. I have sympathy and compassion for them. Many are looking for help. And excuse me for saying, but it's the "Christian thing to do." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts