dave mcbride Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) I think this is my main concern is when does that happen? Because normally it is just out of nowhere from one year to the next the productivity just drops. I see that 33 number next to his age and I get concerned (Rightfully or wrongfully I don't know) History has shown me RBs around his age fall off the proverbial cliff. Yes because that is the exact same thing. This is why this board is intolerable at times. Instead of just offering a counter opinion people such as yourself have to go to the extreme. I love how you belittle my fact of 20 and 40 + yd runs and say its not the way you measure a back. yet you give first downs and touchdowns as an example. Which can be skewed statistics. Perhaps we should go YPC where CJ still bests FJ. YPP is the way to go, and Jackson averaged 5.05 to Spiller's 4.9. Also, bear in mind that a high number of TDs negatively affects YPP - the runner may still be upright and able to run further, but the play is over. Jackson had 8 more plays than Spiller last year when the goal line ended the forward progress. Simply put, Jackson has far better field vision and is a better receiver. Edited August 11, 2014 by dave mcbride
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 YPP is the way to go, and Jackson averaged 5.05 to Spiller's 4.9. Also, bear in mind that a high number of TDs negatively affects YPP - the runner may still be upright and able to run further, but the play is over. Jackson had 8 more plays than Spiller last year when the goal line ended the forward progress. Simply put, Jackson has far better field vision and is a better receiver. Ask the QBs who'd they rather have in there. Fred picks up blitzes maybe better than any back in league. He chips linebackers on the way into a pattern and almost lnocks them on their arse. He squirts through and squirms his way for a few extra yards. If you are just handing the ball off for a sweep, spiller is your guy, brown is next in line. If you are talking any other facet of the game, Freddie is hard to beat. No matter how it shakes out he is the absolute best third down back on the team for now.
Big Gun Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 For whatever reason it seems CJ gets brought down to the ground very easy. It seems like he never sheds tacklers or breaks tackles. IDK, just frustrating.
FireChan Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 Ask the QBs who'd they rather have in there. Fred picks up blitzes maybe better than any back in league. He chips linebackers on the way into a pattern and almost lnocks them on their arse. He squirts through and squirms his way for a few extra yards. If you are just handing the ball off for a sweep, spiller is your guy, brown is next in line. If you are talking any other facet of the game, Freddie is hard to beat. No matter how it shakes out he is the absolute best third down back on the team for now. Don't forget his football IQ. I don't think there's another RB on the roster who would have purposely dropped that ball against Carolina.
CodeMonkey Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 For whatever reason it seems CJ gets brought down to the ground very easy. It seems like he never sheds tacklers or breaks tackles. IDK, just frustrating. Spiller is a small quick skatback. Not a power runner. No surprises here. 3rd and 1 is not what he is there for.
John from Riverside Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 I believe the first run against the Panthers the other night was between the tackles and went for a significant gain. The knock that he cannot run between the tackles is a bit of misnomer, although he is certainly not a power back. He (and anyone else) does need at least some blocking to occur. That was the major problem last year. In no way am I dogging CJ Spiller here because that was a very good run.....but the defense was REALLY spread out on that play. Where CJ gets into trouble is when has to run IN TRAFFIC between the tackles.....hat play was a perfect illustration of how he should be used...in space
Dorkington Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) For whatever reason it seems CJ gets brought down to the ground very easy. It seems like he never sheds tacklers or breaks tackles. IDK, just frustrating. I think he lead, or was close to the top, in yards after contact in 2012. https://www.profootb.../#ElusiveRating Not saying this makes him a power back, but I think he's not an easy tackle... last year the offense changed, and he had a bum wheel. We'll see if Hackett can learn to use him correctly, and if CJ's health will return. Edit: And on the counter, Fred is called out for his elusiveness in this 2012 article http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/07/01/three-years-of-the-elusive-rating/ Edited August 11, 2014 by Dorkington
John from Riverside Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 As far as blitz pickup......I actually think the only back that ISNT capable of doing that well is Spiller. Boobie....Brown....Jackson.....all of those guys appear to be able to pass protect Boobie is like a friggen fullback so having him out there is like having an extra OL almost
MarkAF43 Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 I won't attack the premise because fact is FJ is getting up there in age. But to prematurely drop him ( or suggest dropping him) all the way down to the bottom of the depth chart is a panic move based on his age. FJ has never been the fastest guy, but as others have mentioned, his football IQ, his heart, his ability to pick up blitzes show that doesn't make him the last guy on the depth chart just because he's 33. Sure, do it when his performance significantly drops off, but until then, he's still a 1/1A back.
Billy in 4C Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 Overall, I don't totally disagree with the OP, BUT, I'd say let Freddie play himself out of the lineup. Don't assume he is old and can't play, etc. Right now, there is nothing proving he still can't play. You might be right, but let's see it play out on the field.
You herd it hear last Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 We should wait til he shows signs of slowing down more, sign him to a ridiculous extension and then cut him.
bowery4 Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) How did Boobie get his nick name? FJ is our #1 back until he isn't which we will see when we see it. I have seen this kind of thread every year he has been here. I will agree when it happens, which it hasn't yet. This. Fred still sees the field very well. If there are holes to run through, he's a guy you can count on to make the right cuts and get solid yards. His strength has always been getting three more yards than it appeared possible to get on any play. If you start to see a trend of going down on first contact and not being able to pick up those extra yards, his strength as an NFL running back will be severely diminished. He doesn't have the speed, agility, or power of the other backs on the roster. He has great football sense, takes care of the ball, and manages to escape from tackles in space and lurch forward for bonus yards that other backs don't get. He's still shown he can do it, so until that is not the case, I say give him his touches. One thing I am excited to see this year is CJ and FJ on the field at the same time. I have been waiting years for that. Edited August 11, 2014 by bowery4
PolishDave Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 I am in the belief that Fred Jackson should be moved down the depth chart. Possibly all the way down. Your reasoning makes sense if you think about how an older player should regress. Your reasoning does not make sense if you look at the way Fred plays (he hasn't regressed in my assessment). We won't really know until the regular season is well underway. I firmly believe that Fred Jackson makes every guy on that offense a little better when he is in there. I think most of the players really look up to him. (Maybe right. Maybe wrong.) The guy gives his all 100% of the time. If every player did that, this team would win a few more games. I can't recall how many times (it was a lot) that I turned to my wife during a game at the Ralph and commented how glad I am FJ is on this team because the dude is a stellar player both in terms of talent and in terms of character. Give me 10 more guys who play as well as and as hard as Fred Jackson on offense and this offense is unstoppable. Remember there is much, much more to winning than putting a bunch of guys out there who can run the fastest.
John from Riverside Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 I think that Fred is still extremely effective on the field but what I DONT want to see him doing is running towards the sideline on runs.......is it just me or does he appear REALLY slow when he isnt going north/south? That one of the things I am really excited about Bryce Brown.....not only is he a huge back to bust it u between the OT's but somebody hits the "turbo boost" button when he is running east west getting to the sideline and turning the corner I really like Bryce Browns potential...he appears to do everything well
FireChan Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) I think that Fred is still extremely effective on the field but what I DONT want to see him doing is running towards the sideline on runs.......is it just me or does he appear REALLY slow when he isnt going north/south? That one of the things I am really excited about Bryce Brown.....not only is he a huge back to bust it u between the OT's but somebody hits the "turbo boost" button when he is running east west getting to the sideline and turning the corner I really like Bryce Browns potential...he appears to do everything well http://www.buffalobi...3a-5fca70b02b1b It's more noticeable because on outside runs, you need speed to escape the containing DE. Still, Fred has some silky moves, as well as impeccable balance. I'll believe Boobie Dixon or Bryce Brown can be wrapped up by a linebacker and drag him 3 yards for a TD when I see it. Edited August 11, 2014 by FireChan
Rocky Landing Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 This may not sit well with some/most but I am completely ok with that. I am in the belief that Fred Jackson should be moved down the depth chart. Possibly all the way down. CJ Spiller is undoubtedly this teams first string running back, IMO. Last year was a down year (Allegedly) (1st in NFL in 40+ yd runs) (2nd in NFL in 20+ yd runs) The backup role should go to Bryce Brown. He has the speed that Fred lacks and can also be considered a home run threat. He has been clocked sub 4.4 in the 40 yd dash. Speed cannot be taught in the NFL and with Freds age, that is going to be the first thing to go, and has also never been Freds Strong suit. Third string is where some will question me and (Most likely) call me an idiot. Boobie Dixon should be the short yardage back. His size and strength can be unstoppable at times. Lining Dixon and Summers in the backfield in goal line/short yardage situations is 500Lbs of downhill force. I firmly believe that if Dixon is in the game during those 4 rushing attempts he gets in the end zone. and the Bills first string offense walks away with a touchdown. With all that said Jackson is without question, a leader in the locker room on this team. And with that said I will take talent over leadership on the field. Freds age will catch up with him, and sooner rather than later. My Rb depth chart currently looks as follows: 1- Spiller 2 - Brown 3 - Dixon 4 - Jackson Puts on hard hat and pads and waits for attack. This really is premature. The truth is that we have four very talented running backs, each with unique skill sets. FJ is far (well, maybe not too far) from done. It almost doesn't matter who the starter is-- all four should be on the field a lot. When FJ's production starts dropping, adjust the amount of time he is on the field. But, right now, four starting caliber RBs (or at least three, and one solid back-up caliber) is a really enviable position that won't last long. Our ground game, properly utilized, should be the best in the league. Moving FJ down the depth chart now would not be proper utilization.
K-9 Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 I think that Fred is still extremely effective on the field but what I DONT want to see him doing is running towards the sideline on runs.......is it just me or does he appear REALLY slow when he isnt going north/south? That one of the things I am really excited about Bryce Brown.....not only is he a huge back to bust it u between the OT's but somebody hits the "turbo boost" button when he is running east west getting to the sideline and turning the corner I really like Bryce Browns potential...he appears to do everything well Noticed this last year in camp, too. He seemed to be lacking his usual burst to the hole. GO BILLS!!!
zow2 Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 Fred is gonna have a role on this team but i agree it will probably be diminished as the season goes on. That could be due to his performance, the other RB's outperforming him or most likely injuries. If he does get stuffed on some early season 3rd and shorts or from the goaline, he may not see those crunch time carries. We'll see. Hoping for the best but i think this will be his last year as a key cog in the Bills running game.
John from Riverside Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 What would be nice to give carries to all 4 of these backs to keep them all fresh......
Clippers of Nfl Posted August 11, 2014 Posted August 11, 2014 My two cent take right now is this: I have grown to like Freddy. When Lynch was here, I didnt like Fred. I'm just being honest. I always valued Lynch way over Freddy. He has done a lot of great things post Lynch. He has talent but age will become an issue this year. Cj is too explosive to be mentioned with stupid trades. I'm not going to mention how to use him. Darren Sproles or Reggie Bush should ring a bell right here. Brown is looking to be the man. Fred is a smart nfl back. However imo he gets slower as the season progresses. I dont know about depth chart usage right now. All 3 can be #1's. Play the hot hand and get the wins is all I care about right now!!!
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