KD in CA Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Hopefully every race car driver or driver of a motor vehicle will watch and learn. It's truly a heartbreaking and avoidable scenario, and arguing for the sake of arguing is beyond disgusting. Nobody knows what happened other than a man, in an unsafe manner, exited his race car to confront another driver and was struck and killed. Intent or not on all parties involved MANY lives have been ruined, and one life lost. Mods, please lock this thread. That's the problem that isn't being discussed; our 'road-rage' society that we see on display at sporting events, on highways and in the line at the supermarket. People have this incessant need to confront others, oftentimes out of nothing but ego or self-promotion or their own frustration with life. The notion of 'confronting' someone who is driving a car is logically ludicrous, yet people seem to just accept that mindset as normal. It's not. That's the lesson kids need to learn; that wild, emotional outbursts over every inconvenience is not a healthy or positive thing for anyone.
truth on hold Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) The racetrack IS Stewart's and the other drivers THAT ARE IN THEIR VEHICLES as they signed in their racing agreements. You can't apply the street to this matter under any circumstances. Those racers are out there to race, not deal w/road raged, crazed people. NOW, like Dean said, if Ward bumped his head and was out of it, I truly apologize for slamming his actions, but do NOT apoligize for the position I take on this matter. Drivers do have Carte Blanche to see that their safety comes first. Would you be happier if Tony Stewart cashed and t-boned into another car killing him or another driver? Would you be happier if TS swerved to avoid Ward, crashing, and his car burst into flames? You are making a lot of assumptions here about what was in Tony's head... Why can't I? You have no right to imply that Stewart was doing anything wrong BUT RACING (even under caution). It is totally unfair and unjust to try and get into Tony's head because of his past behavior. It is wrong and disrespectful has ZERO bearing on this horrible situation. The burden lies on Kevin Ward Jr. plain and simple just like the parents in Portugal that went past a fence and fell off a cliff. Ward broke the agreement he signed NOT to leave his vehicle in a non-fiery crash. How the hell do you eulogize that? The best way you can by not calling other people a d*ck. I understand the family needs to vent and grieve their loss... But do it classier, they are resorting to what Ward did on the track. They want everybody else to stay classy? The apple didn't seem to fall too far from the tree with the aunt. IMO, the aunt went far in breaking the detante about both acting classy! Yeah, take it to Facebook auntie... That's real smart. Ward was venting, let road rage overcome him, and acting like a total fool.... I am sorry to the family. Honor him the best way you can and stop trying to blame Stewart, drag him through the mud, for their family member's lack of self-preservation. Not everything has an answer to why things in life happen the way they do. It really is THAT simple. I am sorry for the living and what their family member is putting them through. I do feel bad seeing he was a 20 year old, he only had one crack @ stupidity and he bought the farm. BUT, that's where somebody else should have intervened in the past. This couldn't have been the first time he ignored rules and made egregious saftey choices? Life seemed really unfair for Ward to go @ 20 after ONLY one majorly stupid mistake. Some people get nine lives or more in these situations, but usually it is because some sort of self-preservation kicks in @ the very last second. I can count on my hand (I am being modest) how many times I did something that wasn't too smart. I know that is hard to believe about me... But DCTom & others wouldn't be shocked about me making this statement. ;-) ;-) Somehow, the good Lord guided me through those momentary lapses in reason/judgement. I am very thankful and try to learn from those situations. Age, unlike what was afforded to Ward, makes people wiser. I am truly sorry that Ward didn't have more years to learn certain lessons. That's what I am most sorry about and blaming/questioning Tony Stewart has no part in that equation. Life is simply unfair @ times. Don't make it more unfair. Especially the aunt, please don't emabarass the family and stoop to what Kevin was attempting to do. Learn from the mistakes made. Sorry to vent/rant here. But, just be tahnkful I am doing it from the safety of my own house! That's why jaywalking is a ticket. Just imagine if everybody played a game of chicken like Ward was doing? Ranting doesn't make Stewart innocent any more than makes him guilty. Any agreement would almost certainly include language specifying drivers responsibility to make best efforts to avoid individual(s) on the track and cockpit areas. And even if it didn't, there are over riding statues in the law that preclude an individual from deliberately acting in a reckless and potentially harmful manner Edited August 14, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) That's the problem that isn't being discussed; our 'road-rage' society that we see on display at sporting events, on highways and in the line at the supermarket. People have this incessant need to confront others, oftentimes out of nothing but ego or self-promotion or their own frustration with life. The notion of 'confronting' someone who is driving a car is logically ludicrous, yet people seem to just accept that mindset as normal. It's not. That's the lesson kids need to learn; that wild, emotional outbursts over every inconvenience is not a healthy or positive thing for anyone. I totally agree... The kid made a stupid mistake and paid w/his life. I am just blown away @ the Tony Stewart backlash. And... I am NOT a Tony Steawart fan by any means! There is nothing that could have been done... Ward walked to Stewart and got run over. Insanely sad! Yes, I do weep for humanity and Wards family. I also pray for the courage of Tony Stewart. Side note: I almost lost my brother years back. He broke down on the NYS Thuway and started walking. He said that he was very close to an exit and decided to go for help (no phones @ that time)... As he was walking, a car brushed him back with a mirror... "Huh?" I said. First thing out of my mouth was: "That's why it says stay with the vehicle on your toll ticket!" Then ontop of it he was hiking with traffic, always hike AGAINST traffic and bike with it. He wasn't helping his odds one bit! Ranting doesn't make Stewart innocent any more than makes him guilty. Any agreement would almost certainly include language specifying drivers responsibility to make best efforts to avoid individual(s) on the track and cockpit areas. And even if it didn't, there are over riding statues in the law that preclude an individual from deliberately acting in a reckless and potentially harmful manner And what proof do you have that TS acted recklessly? A rev which is NOT acceleration. Video schmideo... I commented earlier about why courts still use stenos and don't just go with video. Audio/video does NOT always tell the whole story... I know, GASP! Edited August 14, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois
truth on hold Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) And what proof do you have that TS acted recklessly? A rev which is NOT acceleration. Video schmideo... I commented earlier about why courts still use stenos and don't just go with video. Audio/video does NOT always tell the whole story... I know, GASP! I've never concluded he was guilty, it would be premature as that determination is made by the court, especially prior to both sides having made their cases. However you've prematurely concluded he's innocent. In response to your posts I've merely pointed out where I think your legal analysis is most likely flawed, including factors I believe the plaintiffs attorney or DA could provide to demonstrate guilt. Edited August 14, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack
The Dean Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 I've never concluded he was guilty, it would be premature as that determination is made by the court. However you've prematurely concluded he's innocent. In response to your posts I've merely pointed out where I think your legal analysis is most likely flawed, including factors I believe the plaintiffs attorney or DA could provide to demonstrate guilt. Innocent BEFORE PROVEN guilty. Nothing on that tape suggests guilt, Only people guessing what he might have been thinking suggests that. it starts with the assumption he is innocent.
truth on hold Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Innocent BEFORE PROVEN guilty. Nothing on that tape suggests guilt, Only people guessing what he might have been thinking suggests that. it starts with the assumption he is innocent. Agreed on presumption of innocence. As for the tape or other evidence, the court may decide. I say may because as I said earlier my best guess this settles out of court. Edited August 14, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) I've never concluded he was guilty, it would be premature as that determination is made by the court, especially prior to both sides having made their cases. However you've prematurely concluded he's innocent. In response to your posts I've merely pointed out where I think your legal analysis is most likely flawed, including factors I believe the plaintiffs attorney or DA could provide to demonstrate guilt. Why waste money and lawyers in court. Why should NYS taxpayers foot the bill to prosecute. Of course the DA and plaintiff's attorney can spin anything. Is that what you really want? Agreed on presumption of innocence. As for the tape or other evidence, the court may decide. I say may because as I said earlier my best guess this settles out of court. Of course as an "honor" thing Stewart should pay something... That was brought up by Boyst very early in the thread. Stewart is loaded, it helps in a situation like this. Will the family be happy? Not from what the Aunt is saying... IMO. IMO, many of the Stewart detractors have made up their mind on past Stewart behavior. Edited August 14, 2014 by ExiledInIllinois
NoSaint Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Innocent BEFORE PROVEN guilty. Nothing on that tape suggests guilt, Only people guessing what he might have been thinking suggests that. it starts with the assumption he is innocent. Just because I presume he's innocent doesn't mean I can't question if there's anything more to the situation.
The Dean Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Just because I presume he's innocent doesn't mean I can't question if there's anything more to the situation. Agreed, But like I said earlier, I might question if Ward was committing suicide, or if he was under the influence of a mind altering substance (all within reason looking at the visual evidence). But I have too much class for that. Feel free to question the other victim here though.
NoSaint Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Agreed, But like I said earlier, I might question if Ward was committing suicide, or if he was under the influence of a mind altering substance (all within reason looking at the visual evidence). But I have too much class for that. Feel free to question the other victim here though. Plenty have made judgements and asked questions on various combos of wards intelligence/judgement/temper/motivations.... Suicide makes little sense. Just like cold blooded murder makes little sense. Questions like was ward trying to make a name by showboating towards the NASCAR guy, or if he just had a temper... If he simply misjudged the proximity.... Are fair game just like questioning the source of the sound if the engine, and if it effected the outcome.
The Dean Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Plenty have made judgements and asked questions on various combos of wards intelligence/judgement/temper/motivations.... Suicide makes little sense. Just like cold blooded murder makes little sense. Questions like was ward trying to make a name by showboating towards the NASCAR guy, or if he just had a temper... If he simply misjudged the proximity.... Are fair game just like questioning the source of the sound if the engine, and if it effected the outcome. Whatever. Everyone want to be Nancy Grace, I guess. I find the trend reprehensible.
truth on hold Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Of course as an "honor" thing Stewart should pay something... That was brought up by Boyst very early in the thread. Stewart is loaded, it helps in a situation like this. Will the family be happy? Not from what the Aunt is saying... IMO. IMO, many of the Stewart detractors have made up their mind on past Stewart behavior. Nothing to do w/ honor, and everything to do w/ self interest. TS would settle to avoid a lengthy court process in which he may be found guilty, lose an even larger sum of money, tarnish his reputation and potentially be banned from the sport. In settling he would not admit guilt either, and state publicly he now looks forward to "putting the matter behind him". The Ward family would settle because the sum of money would be large (although a discount to the maximum amount), and not risk the chance hes found innocent given the case's vagaries, and them getting nothing. Theyd also advertise how they feel that although justice may not have been fully served, they too can now put the matter somewhat behind them and feel that by TS settling hes accepting responsibility. Thats for civil, crimimal is more complicated and harder for me to forecast until more is known Edited August 14, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 Nothing to do w/ honor, and everything to do w/ self interest. TS would settle to avoid a lengthy court process in which he may be found guilty, lose an even larger sum of money, tarnish his reputation and potentially be banned from the sport. In settling he would not admit guilt either, and state publicly he now looks forward to "putting the matter behind him". The Ward family would settle because the sum of money would be large (although a discount to the maximum amount), and not risk the chance hes found innocent given the case's vagaries, and them getting nothing. Theyd also advertise how they feel that although justice may not have been fully served, they too can now put the matter somewhat behind them and feel that by TS settling hes accepting responsibility. Thats for civil, crimimal is more complicated and harder for me to forecast until more is known I am sorry to say... You picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue. :nana: This is exactly what is wrong with American society. Kid gets all road raged up, goes and gets himself run over playing chicken in a Darwin moment and now enter the lawyers to make it whole. We are losing all common sense. Yeah, but hide behind the notion that we don't have any humanity. "...When happily ever after fails And we've been poisoned by these fairy tales The lawyers dwell on small details Since daddy had to fly..."
The Dean Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 Now "suicide" is being discussed? Wow. Clearly they are reading my posts. Seriously though, I find this as disgusting as questioning Stewart's motive.
KD in CA Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 I totally agree... The kid made a stupid mistake and paid w/his life. I am just blown away @ the Tony Stewart backlash. And... I am NOT a Tony Steawart fan by any means! I've never watched a NASCAR race and wouldn't know who Tony Stewart was if he walked in my front door. All I see is a guy walking onto a race track and getting hit by the next car coming around the corner. But clearly Stewart is a villain (to many) in his sport so I suppose that makes the reaction understandable. Probably not fair, but understandable.
DC Tom Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 Now "suicide" is being discussed? Wow. There's as much basis for that as there is yiur "Tony Stewart murdered him" nonsense.
NoSaint Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 I'm sure many have seen it but he's sitting again this week
YoloinOhio Posted August 15, 2014 Author Posted August 15, 2014 @TBone971: Interesting stuff in this article on Tony Stewart. They have video from a different angle. http://t.co/w6dmHBG3cu
Rob's House Posted August 15, 2014 Posted August 15, 2014 I just watched the video and my first take is that the kid walking into the track to confront an oncoming race car is arguably the dumbest thing I've ever seen (and I've seen a guy go 70 on a bike with his feet up on the handle bars). He truly earned his Darwin award. I feel sorry for his family, but I don't mourn the loss of his contribution to the gene pool.
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