JM57 Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Gotta go in with WEO.It seems the posters on the "innocent" of "innocent until proven guilty" are going out of their way to explain away the obvious actions caught on film. 3 time Nascar great known for rough driving pinches young upstart into wall. Young upstart - recklessly and yes could have prevented the whole thing - storms onto track TS - known for attitude and a whole history of mixing things up with other drivers on and off the track comes around where he KNOWS the car he just pinched is. TS definitely taking a higher line on the track than other passing vehicles - sees driver and blips the throttle to - well - be Tony Stewart. Sorry - you are not going to hit the throttle to avoid the kid. The kid was on the right of TS car and blipping the throttle is going to do nothing but swing the end of the car right. The above seems VERY plausible - if not the MOST plausible to that explains everything that happened adequately. I would say that those in the camp of saying TS was not a participant in the fault have a harder time explaining what happened in accordance with what is on film. Can TS be be criminally prosecuted? - doubtful. Will there be a civil trial - probably. I also think there is an element of simple un-comprehensiveness (if that is a word) to the whole thing. It is very hard to even think that something like a typical dirt track dust up ends up as it did - and even more hard to think that TS might have completed the second half of the mistakes with a simple blip of the throttle "message"....... Whatever happened -TS has to wake up every morning.... Re: "a blip of the throttle will do nothing but turn the car right"... Its my understanding that its actually the brakes that "turn" the car with sprint cars, and that you use throttle control to straighten back out as you exit the turn. Fly down the straight, slam the brakes, then feather the gas through is the basic explanation of how the cars get around the track. Again this is just my understanding and I could be wrong.
CountryCletus Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Again, I don't know anyone who has claimed Stewart was trying to run the kid over. This comment is one of many straw men that you and others keep propping up and knocking down. You aren't making a case here. Also, if I was to bet on it I'm pretty sure that Stewart did not claim he didn't see the kid. That would render any evasive action defense impossible. If you prefer, the sound of an engine "revving" up (I think we can all identify that sound without a couple of races under our belts) in the video coincides with the image of Stewarts car accelerating at the time of impact. As for your question I bolded, that is obviously what the DA hasn't decided yet and why there is still an investigation ongoing 3 days later. If things were as simple and straighforward as you and others want us to believe, they would have wrapped this up and closed the case by now. You brought up the fact of things being conceivable... I just gave a conceivable example, but by no means did I think it was likely... The case I am making is simple and I have explained it over and over... You apparently have a misconception that I am trying to be an ass towards people... I'm not... But there have been some uninformed assumptions that have been made that are preposterous.... The fact is, no One really knows how it happened, all this is speculation.... Anyone claiming one thing or another is impossible only to specifically push their interpretation of the events is foolish and closed minded
Best Player Available Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Again, I don't know anyone who has claimed Stewart was trying to run the kid over. This comment is one of many straw men that you and others keep propping up and knocking down. You aren't making a case here. Also, if I was to bet on it I'm pretty sure that Stewart did not claim he didn't see the kid. That would render any evasive action defense impossible. If you prefer, the sound of an engine "revving" up (I think we can all identify that sound without a couple of races under our belts) in the video coincides with the image of Stewarts car accelerating at the time of impact. As for your question I bolded, that is obviously what the DA hasn't decided yet and why there is still an investigation ongoing 3 days later. If things were as simple and straighforward as you and others want us to believe, they would have wrapped this up and closed the case by now. Watching the sheriffs presser yesterday. it was at that one he said something to the effect that and these are my words.We have no experience at this sort of accident investigation on a racetrack with professionals. if anyone has experience in this area we would like to talk. Again that is my translation. So in effect he was saying we are in over our heads here, And, there is no precedent with law enforcement. So if and when a civil case is started since there will be only experts available to testify. My guess is those experts would be people With a heavy racing background Especially in cars with no tranny in a mud pit. The DA also would simply have to find someone who Could prove that this had accident was the result of intent to harm. They have no other choice unless by some chance the DA is former pro sprint car racer. To even re create the accident it will be very hard. What is kind of important to remember is these guys raced several times before on tracks there was zero history of any incidents. That I believe is confirmed. So, remembering that Stewart is now part owner of a racing team, has an estimated wealth of 70 million. is older since he used to pull his douchebag acts. With all that on the line It to me anyways makes no sense to jeopardize it all by trying to be a jerk or teach him a lesson. Stewart it has been reported didn't even know why the yellow flag came out nor did he know Ward had hit the wall until he drove that final lap. These guys are running on extreme addreline, nerves, ego and whatever else. They all have micro fast reflexes. i do not think he can be held accountable for anything even if accelerating to miss him was the wrong move. or if he even saw him with anymore than a second to react. the family will maybe go after him since as a racer he does have somewhat deep pockets. But the legal system is looking like They are strictly doing their job, and making sure they cannot ever be accused of poor investigating by the family and find themselves in a lawsuit.
Mr. WEO Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) You brought up the fact of things being conceivable... I just gave a conceivable example, but by no means did I think it was likely... The case I am making is simple and I have explained it over and over... You apparently have a misconception that I am trying to be an ass towards people... I'm not... But there have been some uninformed assumptions that have been made that are preposterous.... The fact is, no One really knows how it happened, all this is speculation.... Anyone claiming one thing or another is impossible only to specifically push their interpretation of the events is foolish and closed minded Not necessarily you, but bringing up intentionally hitting/injuring him is pointless and hurts your argument. No one argued that. None of us know why he did what we see in the video. Of course we are all speculating. It goes without stating. So, stipulating that, the debate can continue--unlike at least one Stewart support declared. Edited August 12, 2014 by Mr. WEO
inkman Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 So, remembering that Stewart is now part owner of a racing team, has an estimated wealth of 70 million. is older since he used to pull his douchebag acts. With all that on the line It to me anyways makes no sense to jeopardize it all by trying to be a jerk or teach him a lesson. Well, being a former hot head, I can speak as an expert witness . Anger takes over certain people to the point of no control. I've been there, plenty. Stewart has seen his fair share of incidents where it's clear he has anger management issues. Someone like me or most likely TS, doesn't have the capability to rationalize what is happening in that moment. It's "I see red". Not saying that's what happened only that people can easily get to a place where all reasonable thought is vanquished.
Kevin Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Well, being a former hot head, I can speak as an expert witness . Anger takes over certain people to the point of no control. I've been there, plenty. Stewart has seen his fair share of incidents where it's clear he has anger management issues. Someone like me or most likely TS, doesn't have the capability to rationalize what is happening in that moment. It's "I see red". Not saying that's what happened only that people can easily get to a place where all reasonable thought is vanquished. And Tony Stewart was pissed about what exactly?
Kevin Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 (edited) For all of the "hot headed" theorists. What would Stewart be pissed about? At most one could (and some have) said that Stewart caused Ward to spin. There are conflicting accounts of that as well but let's say Stewart wrecked Ward. Why would Stewart get pissed? The one that should've been pissed was Ward, and obviously he was pissed. Stewart didn't have time to lose his temper. Even if Ward waving his finger at him pissed him off he had what 5 seconds to "retaliate" or "brush back" the guy? Five seconds to notice the guy, process what was happening, and act? Edited August 12, 2014 by Kevin
DC Tom Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 And Tony Stewart was pissed about what exactly? It was a Saturday? He's Tony Stewart. I don't think he needs a reason.
The Dean Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 It was a Saturday? He's Tony Stewart. I don't think he needs a reason. Indeed. I can't even understand why his temper comes into play here. What was he supposed to be mad about? For all of the "hot headed" theorists. What would Stewart be pissed about? At most one could (and some have) said that Stewart caused Ward to spin. There are conflicting accounts of that as well but let's say Stewart wrecked Ward. Why would Stewart get pissed? The one that should've been pissed was Ward, and obviously he was pissed. Stewart didn't have time to lose his temper. Even if Ward waving his finger at him pissed him off he had what 5 seconds to "retaliate" or "brush back" the guy? Five seconds to notice the guy, process what was happening, and act? Oops. Beat me to it.
NoSaint Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 For all of the "hot headed" theorists. What would Stewart be pissed about? At most one could (and some have) said that Stewart caused Ward to spin. There are conflicting accounts of that as well but let's say Stewart wrecked Ward. Why would Stewart get pissed? The one that should've been pissed was Ward, and obviously he was pissed. Stewart didn't have time to lose his temper. Even if Ward waving his finger at him pissed him off he had what 5 seconds to "retaliate" or "brush back" the guy? Five seconds to notice the guy, process what was happening, and act? 5 seconds is actually a heckuva a lot of time to get upset. Probably both more than needed and more than he was afforded by the situation. That it's a tight window probably doesn't hurt the argument that he might have been annoyed and done something rash without weighing the risk. A guy cuts you off and how long does it take you to hit the horn? That's the kind of response a rev could've been, without realizing how close it was.
CountryCletus Posted August 12, 2014 Posted August 12, 2014 Hopefully the full story comes out and can put all this speculation to bed.... But how often does that happen... Lies and half truths and coverups are most likely what will come of this...
inkman Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 And Tony Stewart was pissed about what exactly? A young kid showing him up in an unprecedented and unfortunate manner?
Kevin Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 5 seconds is actually a heckuva a lot of time to get upset. Probably both more than needed and more than he was afforded by the situation. That it's a tight window probably doesn't hurt the argument that he might have been annoyed and done something rash without weighing the risk. A guy cuts you off and how long does it take you to hit the horn? That's the kind of response a rev could've been, without realizing how close it was. Ok. It still doesn't answer the question of why/what would piss him off enough to "brush back" Ward.
The Dean Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 A young kid showing him up in an unprecedented and unfortunate manner? Operating under the assumption he just drove around the track (they have nobody in their ear in these races) how would he even know that Ward was seeking him out? You are saying it is more likely that Stewart new Ward was out of his car and coming after him, than simply reacting to a weird situation where a guy was stumbling across the track? Like I said earlier, I suppose it is possible, but it seems far fetched and and I can think of many far fetched alternatives.
Kevin Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 A young kid showing him up in an unprecedented and unfortunate manner? Showing him up how? Waving a finger? Are you serious or just trying to keep the s--- stirred?
DC Tom Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Indeed. I can't even understand why his temper comes into play here. What was he supposed to be mad about? Tony Stewart's always pissed, it seems. Look, these guys (and ladies - if you've ever heard Danica Patrick on the track radio, she's no wilting lily) perform in a sport that requires and rewards a high level of aggressiveness, fearlessness, and risk-taking. It also rewards an insane level of control...but while these drivers are extremely highly trained to be in control at a very high level, they are by nature highly aggressive and competitive. So yeah, tempers flare, and for not much reason. But do they flare to the point where you'll run a guy over? That's a real leap of arrant speculation. And anyone who thinks they can make that leap based on their own half-assed video analysis is a !@#$ing idiot.
CountryCletus Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Tony is also a mind reader and a fortune teller... He enjoys micro brew beer and intravenous drugs....
NoSaint Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Ok. It still doesn't answer the question of why/what would piss him off enough to "brush back" Ward. I'll again say I'm not asserting this is what must have happened but do you not think that seeing some bonehead kid screaming at him and hooting and hollering and waving his arms might have irked him (again, not saying he even saw him, but maybe he did)? We aren't talking a blind murderous rage- just that he might've been to that point that a simple engine rev would be a "shut up" or "ha - atleast I'm still driving"
inkman Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 Showing him up how? Waving a finger? Are you serious or just trying to keep the s--- stirred? I think the fact he got out of his car and chased him down was enough. What he was doing with his hands is irrelevant. I don't even think this is what happened but people seem as if they can't fathom how it could have happened.
boyst Posted August 13, 2014 Posted August 13, 2014 I guess I'd be pissed if the best thing I could do in life was only turn one direction.
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