mannc Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 I expect JF to fumble a lot and hit the IR early. Right, because he lost a grand total of three fumbles in two full seasons at A&M. And how many games did he miss due to injury in his college career?
YoloinOhio Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) It's not like Russell Wilson doesn't have any disadvantages because of his size. He fumbled the ball 10 times last year, which is 3rd in the NFL. What makes it even worse is that most of the guys around him have hundreds of additional pass attempts. Wilson also has far more muscle than Johnny Football which helps his small frame take a pounding. I expect JF to fumble a lot and hit the IR early. wilson averages about 25 passes/game which is where EJ should be in our offense. Of course russell is a better QB at this point but he isn't without his opportunities for development. I think JFF will be good. He has many strengths as as a QB. I think his natural style of play will make it hard to stay healthy once he plays a defense in which the game means something. Doesn't mean he won't stay healthy. But if he keeps seeking out contact as a runner he will be in trouble, because the rules don't protect the QB outside the pocket once he establishes himself as a runner. Edited August 10, 2014 by YoloinOhio
Fingon Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) Right, because he lost a grand total of three fumbles in two full seasons at A&M. And how many games did he miss due to injury in his college career? He's 5-11 200 pounds and facing defensive ends that are big enough to play tackle in college. There's a reason it's incredibly rare for a QB to play in the NFL at that size. If you don't think he will fumble the ball when Mario Williams crushes him, you would be wrong. wilson averages about 25 passes/game which is where EJ should be in our offense. Of course russell is a better QB at this point but he isn't without his opportunities for development. I think JFF will be good. He has many strengths as as a QB. I think his natural style of play will make it hard to stay healthy once he plays a defense in which the game means something. Doesn't mean he won't stay healthy. But if he keeps seeking out contact as a runner he will be in trouble, because the rules don't protect the QB outside the pocket once he establishes himself as a runner. I was just pointing out that it isn't all sunshine and rainbows for a short QB. There are serious disadvantages to being below 6 feet. Edited August 10, 2014 by Fingon
Donald Duck Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Kids tougher then most folks give him credit and after watching his highlights its obvious to me JF is going to pick up right where he left off at the collegiate level IMO. Might take a few games to get comfortable with the Offense/supporting cast, but I expect JF to start tearing up the league just like he said he would this season.
Big C Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Russell Wilson tore it up in his first preseason match. Manziel was adequate.
mannc Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) He's 5-11 200 pounds and facing defensive ends that are big enough to play tackle in college. There's a reason it's incredibly rare for a QB to play in the NFL at that size. If you don't think he will fumble the ball when Mario Williams crushes him, you would be wrong. I was just pointing out that it isn't all sunshine and rainbows for a short QB. There are serious disadvantages of being below 6 feet. Actually, it seemed like you were hating on the guy. It's not like he played college ball in the MAC. Almost every single week he went up against defenses stacked with players who will be earning paychecks on Sundays. While it is certainly possible he will get hurt or fumble, there is no evidence to suggest that Manziel will be any more susceptible to either than other QBs. Edited August 10, 2014 by mannc
Beerball Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Kids tougher then most folks give him credit and after watching his highlights its obvious to me JF is going to pick up right where he left off at the collegiate level IMO. Might take a few games to get comfortable with the Offense/supporting cast, but I expect JF to start tearing up the league just like he said he would this season. Tough has nothing to do with it. Football is full of tough players. Tough won't help a small in stature QB against a 320lb tackle or 280lb DE or 250lb LB. I don't know how far his talent will take him and don't pretend to, but, my biggest "fear" for his career is and always has been his ability to stay on an NFL field. He's "little" and fast playing against big fast guys.
Wayne Cubed Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) I watched him closely he went through his progressions and different options with the little bit of time that he had to throw. You sure you were watching JFF? Because I saw him lock in on his first receiver and if it wasn't open, dump it off or run. There was no "going through his progressions". And that's not meant to be a knock on him, it's very common in rookie QBs. The question, as with all QBs coming into the league, can he learn to go through his progressions? Edited August 10, 2014 by Wayne Cubed
Doc Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Russell Wilson tore it up in his first preseason match. Manziel was adequate. So did EJ.
Donald Duck Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) Tough has nothing to do with it. Football is full of tough players. Tough won't help a small in stature QB against a 320lb tackle or 280lb DE or 250lb LB. I don't know how far his talent will take him and don't pretend to, but, my biggest "fear" for his career is and always has been his ability to stay on an NFL field. He's "little" and fast playing against big fast guys. perhaps durable is a better word, lol Lots of small players play in the NFL, Bills had a CB once upon a time that was pound for pound considered one of the hardest hitters in the league at 170 Lbs. Injury wasn't a problem... Edited August 10, 2014 by Donald Duck
Mr. WEO Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 You sure you were watching JFF? Because I saw him lock in on his first receiver and if it wasn't open, dump it off or run. There was no "going through his progressions". And that's not meant to be a knock on him, it's very common in rookie QBs. The question, as with all QBs coming into the league, can he learn to go through his professions? He didn't have much time to go though progressions. His o-line was a joke. There are fewer matadors in all of Spain. I thought he did well, looked relaxed. Threw fastballs. Not bad.
NoSaint Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Tough has nothing to do with it. Football is full of tough players. Tough won't help a small in stature QB against a 320lb tackle or 280lb DE or 250lb LB. I don't know how far his talent will take him and don't pretend to, but, my biggest "fear" for his career is and always has been his ability to stay on an NFL field. He's "little" and fast playing against big fast guys. Bingo. You see him cut inside on that 4 and 1 and get crushed at the line--- in college that's a 15 yard run for him, with a soft finish. 6 carries in 4 drives is tough. Even with him getting down, he's also taking backfield hits too. I think he has a good chance to be electric in the short term but I question his ability to stay healthy long term, and whether he has the tools that can evolve as defensive coordinators catch up. Once some of those adversities happen, how will he react also?
Fadingpain Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) Manziel is fun to watch. He still thinks it's college apparently. We could start a pool for when and why he is knocked out of action. You know, week five with a collar bone. Week seven with a knee. Colonel Plumb in the library with a candle stick. Like that. I like what I see, I just don't think it can last all that long at this level. What do I know? I'm sorry, but a faux pas of this magnitude cannot be tolerated. You must be referring to either Colonel Mustard or Professor Plum. Personally, I think it was Mrs. Peacock with the lead pipe in the conservatory. I thought Johnny Football did well, all in all. But he simply can't continue his style of play at the NFL level over the long haul without major injury, as many have pointed out. The kid is fun to watch though, for sure. Edited August 10, 2014 by Stopthepain
thebandit27 Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Bingo. You see him cut inside on that 4 and 1 and get crushed at the line--- in college that's a 15 yard run for him, with a soft finish. 6 carries in 4 drives is tough. Even with him getting down, he's also taking backfield hits too. I think he has a good chance to be electric in the short term but I question his ability to stay healthy long term, and whether he has the tools that can evolve as defensive coordinators catch up. Once some of those adversities happen, how will he react also? If he tries to play that we against a starting defense with the size/speed of, say, Baltimore (who he faces twice), he may not make it through the game.
Mr. WEO Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Bingo. You see him cut inside on that 4 and 1 and get crushed at the line--- in college that's a 15 yard run for him, with a soft finish. 6 carries in 4 drives is tough. Even with him getting down, he's also taking backfield hits too. I think he has a good chance to be electric in the short term but I question his ability to stay healthy long term, and whether he has the tools that can evolve as defensive coordinators catch up. Once some of those adversities happen, how will he react also? Some of the biggest QBs in the league don't survive preseason their rookie years....
thebandit27 Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) I'm sorry, but a faux pas of this magnitude cannot be tolerated. You must be referring to either Colonel Mustard or Professor Plumb. Personally, I think it was Mrs. Peacock with the lead pipe in the conservatory. I thought Johnny Football did well, all in all. But he simply can't continue his style of play at the NFL level over the long haul without major injury, as many have pointed out. The kid is fun to watch though, for sure. For irony's sake man, no "b" at the end of "Plum" http://cluecluedo.wikia.com/wiki/Clue_(board_game) Edited August 10, 2014 by thebandit27
Wayne Cubed Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 He didn't have much time to go though progressions. His o-line was a joke. There are fewer matadors in all of Spain. I thought he did well, looked relaxed. Threw fastballs. Not bad. I'm not saying he had a whole lot of time. Just disagreeing that he went through his progressions. And yes his line was crap, so that was part of it. But he's also more comfortable taking off. Case in point in the 4th and 1, his fullback was open and he chose to run it. I'm just not sure he can handle that much running, especially if he's going to do what he did on his first 2 runs and lower his head. At some point he will get popped.
thebandit27 Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Some of the biggest QBs in the league don't survive preseason their rookie years.... It's about more than size; style of play is also a factor here.
Donald Duck Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 Some of the biggest QBs in the league don't survive preseason their rookie years.... Great point
IDBillzFan Posted August 10, 2014 Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) This homer broadcast is brutal! The play-by-play guy on NFL Network last night was absolutely putrid. In fact, the entire network was putrid last night as it has apparently decided that its future is best served if it commits to being the Teen Beat of sports channels. Edited August 10, 2014 by LABillzFan
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