FireChan Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 What's the sentence in America for violating any of the first four commandments? 1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. An eternity in hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 An eternity in hell? It's stupid comments like this that conflate legal codes with religion that give JtSP the latitude to actually be the raging ignorant dumbass that he is. Thanks for that, you stupid ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 Confucius' philosophy was based in Eastern religion. There's no evidence whatsoever as to what Solon based his legal philosophies on...but given the nature of pre-Classical Greece, it's a very good bet that he intermingled religious and political thought (like everyone did in pre-Classical Greece). And for the record: the Code of Hammurabi was considered divinely derived, as well. The very idea of the division of secular and religious law isn't even formed in Western thought until Aristotle, and isn't practiced until much, much later. This is normally where I'd tell you again to learn something about the subject before discussing it...but clearly, learning anything is beyond your capabilities. You are a massively ignorant little putz. I get it, you see religion in everything, no matter the lack of evidence or debatability. But no matter the degree of influence any document that starts with "thou shall kiss my ass, and no other gods ass" has no place on government property of secular america Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 It's stupid comments like this that conflate legal codes with religion that give JtSP the latitude to actually be the raging ignorant dumbass that he is. Thanks for that, you stupid ****. JtSP being a raging dumbass was going to happen with or without my stupid joke. I don't regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) An eternity in hell? God sentenced violators to being a diehard bills fan? Edited August 10, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 When did our country become strictly secular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Lol not even close. Code of Hammurabi truly was a legal code covering nearly 300 specific offenses, including the resultant punishment for each, with a presumption of innocence. It was drafted by man. Unlike 10 commandant's, the word of God, 4 of which relate to man's relationship to God, and none of them describing a legal process or punishment. Solon was a statesman, Confuciounism is a philosophy not a religion (no deity's involved). Moses should get the hell out of there, just another example of trying to stick religious figures on government spaces to establish precedent, just like 10 commandments at city Hall I get it, you see religion in everything, no matter the lack of evidence or debatability. But no matter the degree of influence any document that starts with "thou shall kiss my ass, and no other gods ass" has no place on government property of secular america What this thread demonstrates, and these three posts specifically, is that you have no understanding of history, religion, or the constitution of the United States. Other than those flaws, you're doing a bang up job here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 When did our country become strictly secular? When they wrote the constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 What this thread demonstrates, and these three posts specifically, is that you have no understanding of history, religion, or the constitution of the United States. Other than those flaws, you're doing a bang up job here... He has taken the trophy from gatorman. Hell of a task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 He has taken the trophy from gatorman. Hell of a task. It's true. I'm no friend of the religious intrusion into modern American politics and was looking forward to mixing it up in this thread but then I read those and... Well, I can't even get in on this because of the op. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 When they wrote the constitution. Wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 Wrong. A secular state is a concept of secularism, whereby a state or country purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion. Secular states become secular either upon creation of the state (e.g. United States of America or India) or upon secularization of the state (e.g. France or Nepal). http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 A secular state is a concept of secularism, whereby a state or country purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion. Secular states become secular either upon creation of the state (e.g. United States of America or India) or upon secularization of the state (e.g. France or Nepal). http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state The framers created the constitution based on natural law which presupposes a divine power, which is why natural law was commonly referred to as "laws of the creator" in the age of the founders. To say that the founding of this country was entirely secular is ignorant, it's just not true. There are so many better arguments you could be making about the religious intrusion into government, this is the worst possible case you could bring up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -Declaration of Independence (Thomas Jefferson, 1776) http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html Edited August 10, 2014 by /dev/null Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Frenkle Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 With regard to the Ten Commandments, I think George Carlin said it best. Put these up: 1. Thou Shalt Always be Honest and Faithful, Especially to the Provider of Thy Nookie. 2. Thou Shalt Try Real Hard not to Kill Anyone, Unless, of Course, They Pray to a Different Invisible Man than the One You Pray To. 3. Thou Shalt Keep Thy Religion to Thyself. </driveby> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Then why called "Commandments"? Laws are man made, discussed, debated and voted on. With procedures to determine guilt or innonence, and attachment of penalties. And in a secular country have nothing to do with god. That's how it's been done in the United States, for the most part, for less than 250 years. Historically, which is what is being discussed, laws were commands issued from a place of power, almost always deriving that power from divine grant. Most of Western law, especially ours, is derivative of that. You may hate it, but The Ten Commandments are, quite objectively, part of America's legal history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 With regard to the Ten Commandments, I think George Carlin said it best. Put these up: 1. Thou Shalt Always be Honest and Faithful, Especially to the Provider of Thy Nookie. 2. Thou Shalt Try Real Hard not to Kill Anyone, Unless, of Course, They Pray to a Different Invisible Man than the One You Pray To. 3. Thou Shalt Keep Thy Religion to Thyself. </driveby> Carlin is always welcome here. The man was a legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) That's how it's been done in the United States, for the most part, for less than 250 years. Historically, which is what is being discussed, laws were commands issued from a place of power, almost always deriving that power from divine grant. Most of Western law, especially ours, is derivative of that. You may hate it, but The Ten Commandments are, quite objectively, part of America's legal history. What's being discussed here is whether its constitutional for the state to be promoting a particular religion. And a federal judge ruled no. But to your historical claim, I think you need to reconsider the degree of influence 10 commandments have on US laws. Only 2 or 3 out 10 (murder and theft yes, false witness depending on interpretation) are actually observed. A 20%-30% overlap hardly shows much influence, and considering murder and theft are common to all laws (and common sense) may show no influence at all You shall have no other gods before Me. You shall not make idols. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Honor your father and your mother. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. You shall not covet. Edited August 10, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 A secular state is a concept of secularism, whereby a state or country purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion. Secular states become secular either upon creation of the state (e.g. United States of America or India) or upon secularization of the state (e.g. France or Nepal). http://en.m.wikipedi...i/Secular_state Should we also ban the calendar, then? By your insanely ignorant and massively stupid Jacobin definition, that has no place in America either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Should we also ban the calendar, then? By your insanely ignorant and massively stupid Jacobin definition, that has no place in America either. no, we've sanitized the calendar by replacing 'before Christ' and 'anno domini' with 'common era' and 'before common era', so it's nice and secular and no longer offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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