Round 2 : Sale of the team

[The Dean]

The Forbes article was amazing! National media crying in their class of pinot that Buffalo is going to keep its team and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it!

 

Start over! It's a circus! It's just not FAIR! Guys with tons of money were supposed to be able to rip this team away from its fanbase! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

 

Sorry Ozanian, the team is staying! You'll have to move on to dreaming of moving the Rams, Chargers or Raiders. Learn to deal with it.

 

[plenzmd1]

You keep saying stuff like this. Sorry you are so inconvenienced, but this process will play out. I don't want to sound like a dick, but perhaps you should stop following the sale for a while if it annoys you so much. Come back in a few weeks, for the next phase. Believe it or not, the Bills sale HUGE complicated business transaction and doesn't conform to any particular timeline.

 

Only thing is Dean I do somewhat agree Kdiggz...as i think they can generate a higher purchase price from TPegs if they offer him an exclusive window to bid. Again, this is all based on what we have read from all various sources.

 

TPegs has now seen the numbers, and i think if they went to him and said " you are our preferred buyer, but the number needs to be right" and put "buy it now" number they want, he might just purchase the team for that number.

 

Happens to me in reverse, i have customers who come to me and say"we will not evaluate other options if you get to X price". Might be i am confident we win a bakeoff at a higher number, but why take the risk? TPegs maybe says the same thing.."maybe i can get for $200M less if i let go to bid, but the risk is not worth it".

 

Again, only MHO, and relating to software sales prolly not apples to apples.

Edited August 21, 2014 by plenzmd1

[A Dog Named Kelso]

FWIW, now the report from Canada is that Tim Leweike will stay on his job at MLSE until next July or until his successor is appointed.

 

In other words, he's leaving or has been asked to leave and will be there a few more months, and he failed to bring an NFL franchise there.

 

The fact that this came to light at any time during the bidding process shows how disorganized the TO group really is. Its been reported and there have been clear signs to the fact but, wow. Even if you want to fire or whatever Leweike you wait until after the process is over. It seems like they have no idea what they are doing, I do not understand how these hugely successful people seem to be making every mistake imaginable.

[The Dean]

Only thing is Dean I do somewhat agree Kdiggz...as i think they can generate a higher purchase price from TPegs if they offer him an exclusive window to bid. Again, this is all based on what we have read from all various sources.

 

TPegs has now seen the numbers, and i think if they went to him and said " you are our preferred buyer, but the number needs to be right" and put "buy it now" number they want, he might just purchase the team for that number.

 

Happens to me in reverse, i have customers who come to me and say"we will not evaluate other options if you get to X price". Might be i am confident we win a bakeoff at a higher number, but why take the risk? TPegs maybe says the same thing.."maybe i can get for $200M less if i let go to bid, but the risk is not worth it".

 

Again, only MHO, and relating to software sales prolly not apples to apples.

 

I don't think Pegula needs to be stunted, or pressured, in this deal. Plus they have another legitimate bidder in Golisano. And, should they go that direction now, wouldn't they make this more of a circus and perhaps invite lawsuits from those who have spent a lot of money on the process to-date?

 

This seems like a circus because it is public. These kind of deals typically aren't public. And, of course, because of the epic public embarrassment of Bon Jovi and the Toronto group.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

While I wouldn't totally discount Ozanian's article, it does seem out of step with what others have reported, and behind the times, as he doesn't have Golisano's bid. Mostly it seems like a smear campaign directed at Morgan Stanley. I'm guessing MS and The Trust would like to keep the TO group alive, in order to keep the bids higher. But the TO group has virtually no chance to be awarded the team, so how much can they influence the price?

 

It can not be that far behind the times as new of Leweike leaving just surfaced in the last couple of days.

[K D]

 

 

You keep saying stuff like this. Sorry you are so inconvenienced, but this process will play out. I don't want to sound like a dick, but perhaps you should stop following the sale for a while if it annoys you so much. Come back in a few weeks, for the next phase. Believe it or not, the Bills sale HUGE complicated business transaction and doesn't conform to any particular timeline.

Then no offense but you shouldn't have said it. Just because someone doesn't share your same opinion doesn't mean it's not a valid point.

Only thing is Dean I do somewhat agree Kdiggz...as i think they can generate a higher purchase price from TPegs if they offer him an exclusive window to bid. Again, this is all based on what we have read from all various sources.

 

TPegs has now seen the numbers, and i think if they went to him and said " you are our preferred buyer, but the number needs to be right" and put "buy it now" number they want, he might just purchase the team for that number.

 

Happens to me in reverse, i have customers who come to me and say"we will not evaluate other options if you get to X price". Might be i am confident we win a bakeoff at a higher number, but why take the risk? TPegs maybe says the same thing.."maybe i can get for $200M less if i let go to bid, but the risk is not worth it".

 

Again, only MHO, and relating to software sales prolly not apples to apples.

Agreed, the way they are handling the situation is flawed and may end up netting them even lower profits

[plenzmd1]

I don't think Pegula needs to be stunted, or pressured, in this deal. Plus they have another legitimate bidder in Golisano. And, should they go that direction now, wouldn't they make this more of a circus and perhaps invite lawsuits from those who have spent a lot of money on the process to-date?

 

This seems like a circus because it is public. These kind of deals typically aren't public. And, of course, because of the epic public embarrassment of Bon Jovi and the Toronto group.

 

I don't view as stunted or pressured, happens all the time in business.Give a guy/organiztion an exclusive window to bid or a number that gets deal down right there, and you would be surprised how that can be advantageous for BOTH parties.

 

Again, we have no idea as to the exact wording in the Trust..but almost all RFP's , RFQs, Invitations to Bid etc have very explicit language that says cost of preparing bid is entirely borne by bidder and in no way shall seller reimburse or be responsible for costst no matter outcome of process, even if it results in no transactions taking place.

 

In terms of lawsuit, again as a private sale vs public, (i am not sure again of the language of the trust) , there is nothing to sue for. Public bid is different, but you lose here, go cry to your wife cause no one else gives a rats ass and their is no recourse unless bribery, kickbacks,sidedeals etc involved.

 

Nothing against using hookers and cocaine though!

[The Dean]

Then no offense but you shouldn't have said it. Just because someone doesn't share your same opinion doesn't mean it's not a valid point.

 

There was no "point" to your post...or any of your posts saying [paraphrasing] "Just sell it to Pegula. Get it over with. I'm tired of waiting." You sound like a spoiled child.

 

That time I meant to be a dick, but you asked for it.

 

I don't view as stunted or pressured, happens all the time in business.Give a guy/organiztion an exclusive window to bid or a number that gets deal down right there, and you would be surprised how that can be advantageous for BOTH parties.

 

Again, we have no idea as to the exact wording in the Trust..but almost all RFP's , RFQs, Invitations to Bid etc have very explicit language that says cost of preparing bid is entirely borne by bidder and in no way shall seller reimburse or be responsible for costst no matter outcome of process, even if it results in no transactions taking place.

 

In terms of lawsuit, again as a private sale vs public, (i am not sure again of the language of the trust) , there is nothing to sue for. Public bid is different, but you lose here, go cry to your wife cause no one else gives a rats ass and their is no recourse unless bribery, kickbacks,sidedeals etc involved.

 

Nothing against using hookers and cocaine though!

 

 

I think at this point in the process it becomes a stunt and shows bad faith. It may also decrease the final price, as we have no idea what the final bids might be. Once those bids are in, then they can (and probably will, IMO) start negotiating with one party.

[Kirby Jackson]

I am with Dean on this. It is a fairly typical (in terms of timeline) transaction that is pretty much on schedule. These things take time!!! It is more public than most similar transactions. The trust and Morgan Stanley are going to do what they can to maximize their profit. It's the EXACT same thing that anyone would do in their situation.

 

If you were going to sell your house and you had 1 offer below market value would you just sell it to be done or would you seek more buyers to get the appropriate value? It is a no brainer. This is an even more extreme case because you may jeopardize that 1 buyer shifting their attention to a different property. You don't have that worry here as it is 1 of a kind. It's going to be what it's going to be and ultimately it is TP's to lose.

[thebandit27]

I am with Dean on this. It is a fairly typical (in terms of timeline) transaction that is pretty much on schedule. These things take time!!! It is more public than most similar transactions. The trust and Morgan Stanley are going to do what they can to maximize their profit. It's the EXACT same thing that anyone would do in their situation.

 

If you were going to sell your house and you had 1 offer below market value would you just sell it to be done or would you seek more buyers to get the appropriate value? It is a no brainer. This is an even more extreme case because you may jeopardize that 1 buyer shifting their attention to a different property. You don't have that worry here as it is 1 of a kind. It's going to be what it's going to be and ultimately it is TP's to lose.

 

I'll just add that anyone worrying about Pegula (or any bidder for that matter) feeling slighted because of the process needn't upset themselves. These guys all knew the reality of the situation well before they submitted their non-binding bids, and nobody is going to walk away simply because the process is playing out.

 

It may not feel like it, but this thing really is close to being wrapped up. When I look back to "reports" following Ralph's passing 5 months ago that talked about the team remaining in Trust for multiple years before a sale (thanks Jason La Canfora), and then think about how close we are (6 weeks or so by my semi-educated guess) to officially having the team's second owner, I'm amazed that some folks are actually getting impatient.

[SRQ_BillsFan]

I wonder if those bids ( if accurate ) are lower simply because they were non binding? Why show your hand to the competition or drive up the price on your own

[Kelly the Dog]

I'll just add that anyone worrying about Pegula (or any bidder for that matter) feeling slighted because of the process needn't upset themselves. These guys all knew the reality of the situation well before they submitted their non-binding bids, and nobody is going to walk away simply because the process is playing out.

 

It may not feel like it, but this thing really is close to being wrapped up. When I look back to "reports" following Ralph's passing 5 months ago that talked about the team remaining in Trust for multiple years before a sale (thanks Jason La Canfora), and then think about how close we are (6 weeks or so by my semi-educated guess) to officially having the team's second owner, I'm amazed that some folks are actually getting impatient.

Good post. People really need to put things in perspective. This is the classic sausage being made syndrome, and people IMO are jumping to wild conclusions.

 

Overall, this thing is happening rather quickly. Chances are still very good that the entire process, from the unfortunate day that Ralph passed to the Trust working on the will to the sale of the team to the league voting on it and a new owner announced for the Bills takes a total of nine months. That's quick not dragged out.

[clearwater cadet]

K

[K D]

There was no "point" to your post...or any of your posts saying [paraphrasing] "Just sell it to Pegula. Get it over with. I'm tired of waiting." You sound like a spoiled child.

 

That time I meant to be a dick, but you asked for it.

I asked to be treated rudely? No, actually I asked to be treated fairly. I believe everyone on this board deserves the same. Just because my opinion differs from yours doesn't make it any less valuable.

 

You don't have my permission to paraphrase my comments because that is not what I said. I said the way they are handling this is like a circus by letting it drag on and on. That gives sports writers the opportunity to run with a rumor and make them look bad. I never said I was tired of waiting. When you take someone's comments and spin it to make yourself look right that is more child-like than anything I could have said. I won't be responding to your comments anymore. Thanks and Go Bills

[plenzmd1]

I am with Dean on this. It is a fairly typical (in terms of timeline) transaction that is pretty much on schedule. These things take time!!! It is more public than most similar transactions. The trust and Morgan Stanley are going to do what they can to maximize their profit. It's the EXACT same thing that anyone would do in their situation.

 

If you were going to sell your house and you had 1 offer below market value would you just sell it to be done or would you seek more buyers to get the appropriate value? It is a no brainer.

 

So just to play devils advocate on a couple of points.

 

1) be interested to know how MS and Proscuer Rose(sp) getting paid. Could be they do make more money if they spend more time ...my gut is they get a cut of final purchase price, but if they are on a Time and materials basis! behaves MS to drag out the process.

 

In either case , the expenses to the trust are no doubt higher the longer they keep this process open

 

2) not quite the same, but when I sold my house in DC at the height of the boom, we offered a couple who lost out on house down the street and exclusive window of 5 hours before the house went on the market to make a bid....came in way over what we and our agent thought we would get. That exclusive window drove the price. My firm belief is if we put the hose in the MLS , we would not have gotten as high a price.

 

The house, in that market, much like the Bills, both rare commodities . I think the low bids were driven by the non binding nature, and will rise dramatically when the BAFOs are due.

 

 

BTW, my wife wonders what we all will have to occupy our time when this process finally ends LOL

Edited August 21, 2014 by plenzmd1

[stevewin]

I am with Dean on this. It is a fairly typical (in terms of timeline) transaction that is pretty much on schedule. These things take time!!! It is more public than most similar transactions. The trust and Morgan Stanley are going to do what they can to maximize their profit. It's the EXACT same thing that anyone would do in their situation.

 

If you were going to sell your house and you had 1 offer below market value would you just sell it to be done or would you seek more buyers to get the appropriate value? It is a no brainer. This is an even more extreme case because you may jeopardize that 1 buyer shifting their attention to a different property. You don't have that worry here as it is 1 of a kind. It's going to be what it's going to be and ultimately it is TP's to lose.

 

I get this in principle, but to me there is a difference between someone trying to sell their house to maximize their take to be able to buy another house, keep thier families clothed/fed etc., and monopoly money being thrown around by people so ridiculously rich, for something that essentially came for free, it begs the question how much do you need?

 

If it is true that Wilson's wishes were 1) keep the team in Buffalo and 2) make sure my heirs are taken care of financially - is 900 meeeeelion dollars, give or take a few tens or hundreds of millions, not enough? Even if it sold for less than what it was worth on paper, Mary Wilson and family would still be rich(er) beyond all of our wildest dreams. At what point do they just say "We're being offered a sh!tload of money that's close to what the team is worth on paper, the guy wants to keep it in Buffalo, and Mary and family are taken care of financially over many lifetimes - there's no need to keep dragging this out and try to squeeze some more money out of the bidding."

[May Day 10]

this is still really quick though.

 

the process has gone exactly as Kryk layed out months ago and every milestone has been hit. In April we were jumping at joy of the news that owners could potentially vote in early October for the new Bills owner. The process seems to still be on that target. Its like 6 weeks away and we will likely know who the successful bidder is before then. That is no time at all, considering we are like 21 weeks into the process.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

 

So just to play devils advocate on a couple of points.

 

1) be interested to know how MS and Proscuer Rose(sp) getting paid. Could be they do make more money if they spend more time ...my gut is they get a cut of final purchase price, but if they are on a Time and materials basis! behaves MS to drag out the process.

 

In either case , the expenses to the trust are no doubt higher the longer they keep this process open

 

2) not quite the same, but when I sold my house in DC at the height of the boom, we offered a couple who lost out on house down the street and exclusive window of 5 hours before the house went on the market to make a bid....came in way over what we and our agent thought we would get. That exclusive window drove the price. My firm belief is if we put the hose in the MLS , we would not have gotten as high a price.

 

The house, in that market, much like the Bills, both rare commodities . I think the low bids were driven by the non binding nature, and will rise dramatically when the BAFOs are due.

 

 

BTW, my wife wonders what we all will have to occupy our time when this process finally ends LOL

1) They will get a % of sale as the broker.

 

2) Totally agree on the no binding bids keeping the price down. I am just not sure that an exclusive window will drive the price. He's well aware of what else is out there. That's the difference between your house sale and the Bills deal. That couple was fearful of losing out again so they jumped at it. They need someone (probably Golisano) to actually appear a threat. If not Pegula is going to get it at a good price (probably $1B).

 

Ha ha, on a side note when this is done we will go back to complaining about QB, OL, management, new ownership, coaching, cold hot dogs, warm beer, people peeing in sinks, etc...

 

 

 

I get this in principle, but to me there is a difference between someone trying to sell their house to maximize their take to be able to buy another house, keep thier families clothed/fed etc., and monopoly money being thrown around by people so ridiculously rich, for something that essentially came for free, it begs the question how much do you need?

 

If it is true that Wilson's wishes were 1) keep the team in Buffalo and 2) make sure my heirs are taken care of financially - is 900 meeeeelion dollars, give or take a few tens or hundreds of millions, not enough? Even if it sold for less than what it was worth on paper, Mary Wilson and family would still be rich(er) beyond all of our wildest dreams. At what point do they just say "We're being offered a sh!tload of money that's close to what the team is worth on paper, the guy wants to keep it in Buffalo, and Mary and family are taken care of financially over many lifetimes - there's no need to keep dragging this out and try to squeeze some more money out of the bidding."

The simple answer to this is when you have maximized the $ while still meeting the objective (team in WNY long term). There is no reason to leave $ on the table if it is unnecessary. Especially in a case like this where there is no risk in doing so.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

this is still really quick though.

 

the process has gone exactly as Kryk layed out months ago and every milestone has been hit. In April we were jumping at joy of the news that owners could potentially vote in early October for the new Bills owner. The process seems to still be on that target. Its like 6 weeks away and we will likely know who the successful bidder is before then. That is no time at all, considering we are like 21 weeks into the process.

 

I thought, and I could be wrong, I read somewhere they actually have to have it to the NFL finance committee sometime in Sept if they want it to be considered for a vote in October. Can anyone confirm this?

[dwight in philly]

1) They will get a % of sale as the broker.

 

2) Totally agree on the no binding bids keeping the price down. I am just not sure that an exclusive window will drive the price. He's well aware of what else is out there. That's the difference between your house sale and the Bills deal. That couple was fearful of losing out again so they jumped at it. They need someone (probably Golisano) to actually appear a threat. If not Pegula is going to get it at a good price (probably $1B).

 

Ha ha, on a side note when this is done we will go back to complaining about QB, OL, management, new ownership, coaching, cold hot dogs, warm beer, people peeing in sinks, etc...

 

The simple answer to this is when you have maximized the $ while still meeting the objective (team in WNY long term). There is no reason to leave $ on the table if it is unnecessary. Especially in a case like this where there is no risk in doing so.

i sure hope you are right!.. the thought of having peace of mind regarding the franchise staying put is long time needed..