Round 2 : Sale of the team

[SRQ_BillsFan]

I certainly don't think it is a main reason for wanting a new stadium but expect that the League and Bills will is it to curtail some of the drinking that goes on in the parking lots.

 

It's a black eye to the league ( to some extent ) and a way to increase revenue by selling more food and alcohol in the stadium. Much easier to curtail the drinking in the parking lots in a new stadium than by taking things away where they already exist.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Kirby has it 100% right. You folks that don't agree simply choose to have blinders on. This is the new NfFL, and the only reason we haven't had this discussion sooner was that Mr Wilson said he didn't want a new stadium. That time has passed and a new owner will have a different objective due to the level of investment. The Bills current situation is a stadium issue and a demographic one, tied to each other. Kirby is correct about the "right butts in the seats". The current capacity is too large, producing a glut of secondary market tickets. The weather for at least half the season takes a large and likely more affluent market out of the picture. So a retractable roof facility with around 65000 seats or so is the tonic here. The current pricing structure puts the Bills at the cheapest ticket in the league. Prices charged on secondary market sites show the ability to pay much more. The area has enough of those fans, but they stay away due to the rowdy drunk element created by the cheap prices , and the weather issue. Those who say the area can't support it are simply saying they will not pay it. But there are plenty of fans who will take their place, in a new facility with smaller supply. All those resale tickets that folks are financing their ST purchases with represent available cash left on the table by the Bills. They know this and need to capture those dollars. A new stadium / pricing structure will work as it will target a different market. Seniority will still be honored for tickets, but many will decline or choose a cheaper seat, leaving those willing to pay more the opportunity to claim the seat they covet. It's simple supply and demand, and the current stadium caters to a tapped out market with many $ left on the sidelines by the team. The future is here, just later arriving than it has been for most NFL teams.

 

I do not disagree per se, but we have no idea what the motivation or objectives of a new owner might be. All we can do is guess.

Edited August 20, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[BRAWNDO]

In line with your approach to financing a stadium there are a number of ways that it can be done, not necessarily totally privately financed but significantly so. There have been very preliminary explorations by Jacobs that he would we willing to finance a new facility. It would be done with his company getting the concession contract. There is no doubt that if a facility is built the naming rights to it will be sold. That is another small slice of revenue that can go to the financing of the facility. The league offers low cost loans for new stadiums. That certainly is an attractive offer that can be utilized.

 

I use to favor a full restoration of the Ralph similar to what was done in KC. Not now. The problem with the Ralph is that the concourse is too narrow and thus not amenable to a required upgrade. There comes a point that fixing an antiquated facility is simply not cost effective. However, the money spent for the Ralph's upgrade is not squandered money. It has allowed everyone the time to work on a reasonable stadium project. As others have stated it is not going to be a Jerry's World Gold Plated facility. It will be a functional building that is prudently priced and serves our needs.

 

This.

 

Delaware North contributed money to finance the building of First Niagara Center (CrossRoads Arena) in exchange for a long term concessions contract so the they have already set a precedent.

 

A new stadium could also be home to the UB Football as well to increase the number of events at the stadium and give a reason to justify more state funding. Although there was an article in the TBN today detailing how difficult it would be for UB to make the jump into a Mega Conference.

 

Another random thought, it would not surprise me to see Penn State playing UB at RWS in the near future, given how Terry Pegula is a major contributor to the school.

[Go Kiko go]

I am not sure that stipulation is part of that clause but I haven't read it in a while.

The Bills could talk to potential owners today about plans to move the Bills (to a new stadium or a new geographic area) after the expiration of the current lease (which could be as soon as July 30, 2020, given the one-time termination option). The Bills could also sell to a buyer who intends to move the Bills after the expiration of the current lease. What the Bills can't do is discuss plans to move the Bills before the expiration of the lease, or sell to a buyer who intends to move the Bills before the expiration of the lease. These are the relevant provisions:

 

"[T]he Bills shall not . . . sell, assign, or otherwise transfer the Team to any Person who, to the Bills' knowledge, has an intention to relocate, transfer, or otherwise move the Team during the Non-Relocation Term to a location other than the Stadium" (emphasis mine)

 

"[T]he Bills shall not . . . entertain any offer or proposal to relocate the Team to a location other than the Stadium . . . except . . . to the extent that the relocation or other action . . . would first take effect after the Non-Relocation Term." (emphasis mine)

 

Where "Non-Relocation Term" is defined to mean the period of time lasting until the expiration of the lease of the stadium to the Bills.

[zonabb]

This.

 

Delaware North contributed money to finance the building of First Niagara Center (CrossRoads Arena) in exchange for a long term concessions contract so the they have already set a precedent.

 

A new stadium could also be home to the UB Football as well to increase the number of events at the stadium and give a reason to justify more state funding. Although there was an article in the TBN today detailing how difficult it would be for UB to make the jump into a Mega Conference.

 

Another random thought, it would not surprise me to see Penn State playing UB at RWS in the near future, given how Terry Pegula is a major contributor to the school.

 

DNC did not "contribute" money, they loaned money, which are entirely different. That company basically saved itself bidding the concession contract and lent the money in return for the 20-year contract. They have no ownership stake in the building.

 

The second point is a lost leader unless UB can be convinced to ignore its master plan and plan for the athlatic department, which seeks improvements to its own stadium and athletics "campus." But I have said it before.... connecting a new stadium to UB with funding through SUNY eases the "handout" concerns that come with straight NYS funding with no return. In this scenario, using SUNY as a partial funder gives the state "something" back for its contribution.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

DNC did not "contribute" money, they loaned money, which are entirely different. That company basically saved itself bidding the concession contract and lent the money in return for the 20-year contract. They have no ownership stake in the building.

 

The second point is a lost leader unless UB can be convinced to ignore its master plan and plan for the athlatic department, which seeks improvements to its own stadium and athletics "campus." But I have said it before.... connecting a new stadium to UB with funding through SUNY eases the "handout" concerns that come with straight NYS funding with no return. In this scenario, using SUNY as a partial funder gives the state "something" back for its contribution.

The master plan at UB is mostly support facilities for the athletic department. There is some enhancement to UB stadium, mainly building the East Club for high roller alums. There is some talk of removing the track and lowering the field tip bring fans closer. But that is a long way off and could easily change if a new downtown stadium is built and if Metro rail is extended to UB Amherst (liked it's been planned from the start.)

 

Even 25K at a UB game 6 times a year is 6 more events added to the calendar. I could see a new stadium used 50+ times a year.

[May Day 10]

the current UB stadium basically makes games unwatchable. I have tried. It stinks. I would love to go. I like the MAC. Its the worst stadium I have ever been in. Worse than the St Pete Thunderdome for a Tampa Lightning game.

[Kelly the Dog]

That certainly would help with recruiting, getting to play in a new domed stadium. I think it's a good idea. UCLA plays in the Rose Bowl, which is the other side of town from the campus.

[K D]

Yep I agree on UB playing at the new stadium as well. Their "stadium" is terrible. It's more of a glorified practice field or something you would see at a DIII school. They won't get the types of recruits they want if they are small time like that.

 

The new stadium should also house an updated convention center where we could host trade shows and such as well as a hotel and restaurants. The more uses for it the better and the better chance we have at getting tax payer dollars

[PromoTheRobot]

the current UB stadium basically makes games unwatchable. I have tried. It stinks. I would love to go. I like the MAC. Its the worst stadium I have ever been in. Worse than the St Pete Thunderdome for a Tampa Lightning game.

Agree 1,000X! Though some folks at UBfan.com would argue playing at UB stadium is some unique college experience. There is nothing about UB stadium that is unique other than the level of discomfort of a November night game sitting on aluminum benches.

 

With a guy like TP I could see him bid on events like the Final Four or even an annual bowl game

game. (Revive the International Bowl?) I could see TP insisting an ice rink being installed under the turf for an easy annual outdoor game.

Edited August 20, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[Mr. WEO]

The master plan at UB is mostly support facilities for the athletic department. There is some enhancement to UB stadium, mainly building the East Club for high roller alums. There is some talk of removing the track and lowering the field tip bring fans closer. But that is a long way off and could easily change if a new downtown stadium is built and if Metro rail is extended to UB Amherst (liked it's been planned from the start.)

 

Even 25K at a UB game 6 times a year is 6 more events added to the calendar. I could see a new stadium used 50+ times a year.

 

What would the other 35+ events be?

 

Yep I agree on UB playing at the new stadium as well. Their "stadium" is terrible. It's more of a glorified practice field or something you would see at a DIII school. They won't get the types of recruits they want if they are small time like that.

 

The new stadium should also house an updated convention center where we could host trade shows and such as well as a hotel and restaurants. The more uses for it the better and the better chance we have at getting tax payer dollars

 

What would become of the current Buffalo convention center, which was built with taxpayer dollars?

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Yeah but where are you going to fuind someone who is willing to put up roughly 2/3 of the money but not be the voice of the team. JBJ had a unique situation with the Toronto group that allowed him to put up the least amount of money, but stil lbe the managing partner. I think he would have had trouble finding that elsewhere.

 

His ego and greed would would have been better served cutting ties with those from Toronto and regrouping with wealthy locally when he found out moving was not an option.

 

[K D]

What would become of the current Buffalo convention center, which was built with taxpayer dollars?

It's old and outdated, we need a new one to get any kind of big events. They can transform it into office space

[thebandit27]

What would the other 35+ events be?

 

I think that number is high myself. I think 20-25 events total for a year is probably right.

 

What would become of the current Buffalo convention center, which was built with taxpayer dollars?

 

There are definitely smaller conventions (etc.) that would still be held there.

[MarkAF43]

The Bills could talk to potential owners today about plans to move the Bills (to a new stadium or a new geographic area) after the expiration of the current lease (which could be as soon as July 30, 2020, given the one-time termination option). The Bills could also sell to a buyer who intends to move the Bills after the expiration of the current lease. What the Bills can't do is discuss plans to move the Bills before the expiration of the lease, or sell to a buyer who intends to move the Bills before the expiration of the lease. These are the relevant provisions:

 

"[T]he Bills shall not . . . sell, assign, or otherwise transfer the Team to any Person who, to the Bills' knowledge, has an intention to relocate, transfer, or otherwise move the Team during the Non-Relocation Term to a location other than the Stadium" (emphasis mine)

 

"[T]he Bills shall not . . . entertain any offer or proposal to relocate the Team to a location other than the Stadium . . . except . . . to the extent that the relocation or other action . . . would first take effect after the Non-Relocation Term." (emphasis mine)

 

Where "Non-Relocation Term" is defined to mean the period of time lasting until the expiration of the lease of the stadium to the Bills.

 

Please read through this. Kelly the Dog, Kirby and Bandit have said it countless times. the Bills will not be relocating from Buffalo. The trust is not going to sell to a possible owner who is not 100% committed to keeping the team in WNY. Period.

[JohnC]

 

 

 

 

 

 

What would become of the current Buffalo convention center, which was built with taxpayer dollars?

 

WEO, Taxpayer $$$ are used for all convention centerts.

 

There comes a point when most facilities become inadequate and outdated. That is the case with the current facility. There have been studies that indicated that an enlarged and more modern facility could be located on a refurbished HSBC Building site which is nearly vacant. The location where the current facility is located can be sold and used for commercial development.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2013/06/26/talk-of-new-buffalo-convention-center.html?page=all

Edited August 20, 2014 by JohnC

[Go Kiko go]

Please read through this. Kelly the Dog, Kirby and Bandit have said it countless times. the Bills will not be relocating from Buffalo. The trust is not going to sell to a possible owner who is not 100% committed to keeping the team in WNY. Period.

I was not discussing the probability that the Bills will be sold to an owner who will relocate the team. I was responding to the following posts, which were discussing what the Non-Relocation Agreement legally permits the Bills to do. Those are two different topics.

 

I am not sure it is more than what they have to do. According to the current lease the team aka "Mary Wilson" can not knowingly sell to someone moving the team. That would put her on the hook for the 400 million if the team left.

She cannot sell to someone who would knowingly move the team BEFORE the end of the lease. That clause only protects the county until the end of the lease. We're told The Trust is making sure the new owner has plans to keep the team here beyond that. .

I am not sure that stipulation is part of that clause but I haven't read it in a while.

[26CornerBlitz]

@WKBW

Forbes 2014 list of #NFL team values says the #Bills are worth $935 Million. Ranked 31 of 32 teams. http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlm45fgikm/31-buffalo-bills/ …

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Yeah but where are you going to fuind someone who is willing to put up roughly 2/3 of the money but not be the voice of the team. JBJ had a unique situation with the Toronto group that allowed him to put up the least amount of money, but stil lbe the managing partner. I think he would have had trouble finding that elsewhere.

 

He could collect many smaller suitors he does not need two large contributors. Gunlock, Wegman(don't think he would do just a suggestion of fiscal availablity), and one of the Jacobs family. Point is there are people who he could amass locally and still be the primary owner. He could even keep one of the Toronto investors for financial reasons with all the other partners if he wanted a team and did not care that it stayed in Buffalo.

 

There were many options but he seemed clueless to the reality.

[JohnC]

 

 

DNC did not "contribute" money, they loaned money, which are entirely different. That company basically saved itself bidding the concession contract and lent the money in return for the 20-year contract. They have no ownership stake in the building. [/b]

 

The Arena project got partially financed by a private company for a return on a business arrangement. What is wrong with that? The bottom line is that it helped make the project viable. The end reslt is it helped to finance a project with less public money involved. If a major project can get built with mostly private financing then that is a positive thing. Jerry Jones privately financed his "palace" project with 75% private money and 25% public money.

 

As you well know for the most part the era of stadiums and arenas mostly

getting built with taxpayer dollars is over. So creative private financing is needed to get projects done that benefit the public and wealthy businessmen.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2014 by JohnC