Round 2 : Sale of the team

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Ultimately the new owner will decide along with state, county and local politicians. I can buy The Trust making sure the team is in good hands, and has a plan to keep the team here beyond the current lease. Anything more seems to me to come close to blatant influence peddling. They can't sell something they do not own.

 

 

 

She cannot sell to someone who would knowingly move the team BEFORE the end of the lease. That clause only protects the county until the end of the lease. We're told The Trust is making sure the new owner has plans to keep the team here beyond that. .

 

What if Ralph gave instructions to sell to someone that will build a new stadium in WNY? Thats why the Bills appointing members of the trust to The New Stadium Group immediately after his death is important. The timing means something IMO.

[Kelly the Dog]

I am not sure that stipulation is part of that clause but I haven't read it in a while.

I believe Dean is right. I believe, from reading a lot about it, that the stipulation is that the Bills (and the team's owners) cannot even talk to anyone about being in a stadium before the end of the lease. And the Trust cannot discuss an ownership that had any intention of moving the team right now. I believe once they owned the team, that they could then at some point discuss moving the team after the ten years of the lease has finished.

 

But that is where the NFL comes in. They are not going to allow an ownership team that has a lame duck team for eight full years.

[Fixxxer]

Wawrow live at Rumblings talking about the sale

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2014/8/19/6044337/john-wawrow-associated-press-buffalo-bills-sale-training-camp

[beerme1]

A new stadium is not "needed", nor will it put more butts in the seats. Keep the ticket prices low. Keep the merchandise sales high. Put a winning team on the television. That's how to succeed in a small market. IMHO.

Ralph passed away on March 25th. By March 27th Buffalo Bills officials and members of the trust were added to the New Stadium Working Group.

 

2 of the 4 trustees. Mary Owen and Jeff Littman. Russ Brandon also part of it, he gave all the presentations to the bidders that advanced on to the 2nd round. One can make an educated guess that since it happened so soon after Ralph passed away that it was part of the lease or part of his trust.

 

Its the most important part of this sale. Its pretty simple, the Bills do not survive passed the lease without a new stadium or a retrofit.

 

 

I think the league's stance is that we need a stadium is to increase revenue to visiting teams. In other words higher ticket prices. They do get approve the new owner and I have to believe that Tommy G and El Pegual would both be rubber stamped and both will indicate their intent to build a new stadium.

Although I would expect it to go like this. So Tommy G you have stadium plan? Yes I do. I'll work with county and state governments and utilize all available funding and we'll utilize the stadium location group to come with a site.

 

El Pegual your stadium plans? I am going to help continue to revitalize the city and we're going to relocate the few people that still reside in the Perry St projects and raze those dilapidated buildings and build it there and this over here on that table under the cover is our model of it. Cliff pull the cover off. And there lies a retractable 68,000 seat stadium replica. And how are you going to finance that? Majority of my money with a small contribution from the state, county and city governments.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Wawrow live at Rumblings talking about the sale

 

http://www.buffaloru...e-training-camp

 

I went back and read Cathal Kelly article that JW referenced during this interview. This is what they thought was the biggest hurdle to the JBJ group when this started was "Their biggest issue at the moment is unique. It’s the Toronto Argonauts."

 

http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2014/03/25/ralph_wilsons_death_opens_door_ever_so_slightly_for_nfl_in_toronto_kelly.html

[JTO]

What's the latest news?

[The Dean]

Great Wawrow segment by BuffaloRumblings. I wonder what he was drinking during the interview.

[Kelly the Dog]

Great Wawrow segment by BuffaloRumblings. I wonder what he was drinking during the interview.

Moonshine I imagine.

[bbb]

Its not about more butts in the seats it's about the right butts in the seats. It is like $70 a game to sit lower level between the 10's. That ticket in most markets is $200 and up. The Bills need a new stadium because they need to rescale to meet today's NFL. Believe me they would love to just make those tickets $2K a season and not $730 (or whatever they are) but that won't be an option in RWS. That is the main reason that I don't believe a retrofit is an option. No one will come out an say that because it appears greedy but it is just closing the gap between the Bills and the rest of the league.

 

I think this is a risky time to try that. Not sure if this market can support it right now. Hopefully, the way things are going, it can in the future.

 

But, teams all around the country are getting hurt by their own greed. Old Yankee Stadium was raucous. New Yankee Stadium is a morgue. Same with Citi Field..........The Jets have so much trouble selling their tickets.

 

Even college football teams, which are usually supported by rabid fans, are having way less demand, due to their greedy ticket pricing.

 

They see stats on the secondary market and think they charge a whole stadium what a small segment of ticket buyers are willing to pay.

[Who is Yuri?]

My guess is that the Wilson family trust would prefer that the Bills play in Ralph Wilson Stadium as long as possible. It's a living shrine to Ralph in the same way that Knox farm, and the Albright Knox are memorials to the greatest ever owner of the Sabres. If the First Niagara Center / HSBC Center / Marine Midland Arena were called the Knox Center, that arena would have more historical significance and credibility, in my opinion, and young fans, players, and visitors would never forget the founding father of that franchise. Speaking of a shiny new palace downtown, and abandoning the Ralph so soon after Mr. Wilson's passing might be construed as disrespectful to his memory by them closest to the man. Food for thought.

[BillnutinHouston]

Believe me they would love to just make those tickets $2K a season and not $730 (or whatever they are) but that won't be an option in RWS.

Kirby, I agree with you that ticket price restructuring is the main "real" argument in favor of a new stadium. But why do you think that restructuring is not an option in RWS?

[May Day 10]

I don't think we have enough high end dollars to make bells and whistles a necessity.

 

Working class fans have and will drive attendance. Just look at the sabres' premium seats compared to the rest of the league, while "common" seats have crept to at or near league averages.

 

The formula is pretty simple. Field a relevant football team for a season or two that includes a home playoff game or 2. Cap season tickets and create a waiting list to create a feeling of being shut out to high secondary market and box office pricing and perpetual demand. Then creep the ticket prices up.

[Kirby Jackson]

Kirby, I agree with you that ticket price restructuring is the main "real" argument in favor of a new stadium. But why do you think that restructuring is not an option in RWS?

The sense that people will get is that "their seats" are being raised. We went through it ion a small scale here when we added more floor seats. The benefits increased tremendously (free high end food, private club, etc..) and some people couldn't get past the price of their seat getting raised (one grown man actually cried). There is a certain sense of ownership associated with people's seats. You hear people all of the time say that "I sit in section x." If you start over with a new stadium there isn't that sense of your ticket getting raised. It is totally different.

 

I don't disagree with BBB that a new stadium will negatively impact the atmosphere and he gives some great examples. With that being said it is coming because revenue trumps atmosphere in today's NFL. That is reason #2 that the retrofit isn't a realistic option in my opinion. They need to shift the whole dynamic of what it means to attend a Bills game.

 

Our routine for about the last 15 years has been to go at about 10 AM, park on Southwestern, we meet two other groups there, drink 4-5 beers in the parking lot and start walking at about 12:15. Think about how many revenue opportunities are there alone? 3 cars at $15, pizza for 8 people $30, and 36 beers $36. That is the price that we pay. If the new stadium had more on stadium parking at $20 a car (still cheap), maybe only 5 of the people will eat at $8 each ($40), and pregame beers at a stadium bar maybe 3 each at a special $5 price ($120). That's $220 from that group alone in revenue. I apologize if this is a long drawn out email but these are the kinds of conversations going on behind closed doors. This is the reason that you are seeing things like La Nova and Duffs. It isn't to be more fan friendly (even though they have that hide behind) but it is to get a larger piece of the pie.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Kirby Jackson

[May Day 10]

Isn't that the Toronto series description?

[Kirby Jackson]

Isn't that the Toronto series description?

Not really, I don't know of you've ever been to a game in New England but more like that (with better fans of course). They have Patriot Place with shops, bars and restaurants. It is it's own little community. That is along the lines of what I envision especially if they build downtown. It won't be just a stadium.

[May Day 10]

I am friends with a number of Patriots fans who loathe that place and wont step foot in it. Meanwhile they come here and beam about the entire experience and cant get enough.

 

I guess when youre drawing from 6 million people and are among the class of the league for a decade and a half, you can afford to alienate your original fans. I also am friends with a few Jets ex-season ticket holders who wouldnt/couldnt make the transition to the new stadium and pricing.

 

I dont think the Bills have that luxury.

 

There is a happy medium, and ways to get more revenue from people, but a huge cash grab isnt going to work here and I believe Pegula and Golisano both know it. We cant sustain a palace of excess like these things in Atlanta and Minnesota. Maybe a more modest stadium like Pittsburgh, Seattle, or Cleveland. I would really like for them to consider a major renovation of RWS to see if they can preserve the place. 20th in revenue. Sure there are subtle ways to improve without stabbing the heart at what makes the Buffalo Bills

 

Great article on the subject: http://sports.espn.g.../partone/081121

Edited August 20, 2014 by May Day 10

[Kirby Jackson]

I am friends with a number of Patriots fans who loathe that place and wont step foot in it. Meanwhile they come here and beam about the entire experience and cant get enough.

 

I guess when youre drawing from 6 million people and are among the class of the league for a decade and a half, you can afford to alienate your original fans. I also am friends with a few Jets ex-season ticket holders who wouldnt/couldnt make the transition to the new stadium and pricing.

 

I dont think the Bills have that luxury.

 

There is a happy medium, and ways to get more revenue from people, but a huge cash grab isnt going to work here and I believe Pegula and Golisano both know it. We cant sustain a palace of excess like these things in Atlanta and Minnesota. Maybe a more modest stadium like Pittsburgh, Seattle, or Cleveland. I would really like for them to consider a major renovation of RWS to see if they can preserve the place.

 

Great article on the subject: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/partone/081121

I am personally not a fan of NE either. It is really stale and people know nothing about football. The stadium that I keep hearing is the one in Indy as the benchmark.

 

I believe that they can use some of these new revenue streams to help fund the new stadium as well. Think of it like a toll booth. If the cost of that beer in the earlier example is $5 and their hard cost is $2 maybe $.25 of each beer goes towards the stadium (just an example I have no idea on real numbers). The group would be kicking in $6 a week or ($60 a year) just from their pregame beers. Now if you take this and it extrapolate it you are onto something. You are passing along the costs to those using the stadium.

[GA BILLS FAN]

A new stadium is yet another reason to love Pegula as owner. If he wins bid, we can all collectively take a deep breath and take some time to decide what is in the best interest for all parties regarding a long term stadium solution without a gun to the heads of WNY and a threat to move team.

 

There are a lot of decisions that need to be made regarding a new stadium, LOCATION, COST and HOW TO PAY FOR IT that are much better discussed and resolved without a threat of moving the team hanging over your head.

[Boatdrinks]

Kirby has it 100% right. You folks that don't agree simply choose to have blinders on. This is the new NfFL, and the only reason we haven't had this discussion sooner was that Mr Wilson said he didn't want a new stadium. That time has passed and a new owner will have a different objective due to the level of investment. The Bills current situation is a stadium issue and a demographic one, tied to each other. Kirby is correct about the "right butts in the seats". The current capacity is too large, producing a glut of secondary market tickets. The weather for at least half the season takes a large and likely more affluent market out of the picture. So a retractable roof facility with around 65000 seats or so is the tonic here. The current pricing structure puts the Bills at the cheapest ticket in the league. Prices charged on secondary market sites show the ability to pay much more. The area has enough of those fans, but they stay away due to the rowdy drunk element created by the cheap prices , and the weather issue. Those who say the area can't support it are simply saying they will not pay it. But there are plenty of fans who will take their place, in a new facility with smaller supply. All those resale tickets that folks are financing their ST purchases with represent available cash left on the table by the Bills. They know this and need to capture those dollars. A new stadium / pricing structure will work as it will target a different market. Seniority will still be honored for tickets, but many will decline or choose a cheaper seat, leaving those willing to pay more the opportunity to claim the seat they covet. It's simple supply and demand, and the current stadium caters to a tapped out market with many $ left on the sidelines by the team. The future is here, just later arriving than it has been for most NFL teams.

[JohnC]

I am personally not a fan of NE either. It is really stale and people know nothing about football. The stadium that I keep hearing is the one in Indy as the benchmark.

 

I believe that they can use some of these new revenue streams to help fund the new stadium as well. Think of it like a toll booth. If the cost of that beer in the earlier example is $5 and their hard cost is $2 maybe $.25 of each beer goes towards the stadium (just an example I have no idea on real numbers). The group would be kicking in $6 a week or ($60 a year) just from their pregame beers. Now if you take this and it extrapolate it you are onto something. You are passing along the costs to those using the stadium.

 

In line with your approach to financing a stadium there are a number of ways that it can be done, not necessarily totally privately financed but significantly so. There have been very preliminary explorations by Jacobs that he would we willing to finance a new facility. It would be done with his company getting the concession contract. There is no doubt that if a facility is built the naming rights to it will be sold. That is another small slice of revenue that can go to the financing of the facility. The league offers low cost loans for new stadiums. That certainly is an attractive offer that can be utilized.

 

I use to favor a full restoration of the Ralph similar to what was done in KC. Not now. The problem with the Ralph is that the concourse is too narrow and thus not amenable to a required upgrade. There comes a point that fixing an antiquated facility is simply not cost effective. However, the money spent for the Ralph's upgrade is not squandered money. It has allowed everyone the time to work on a reasonable stadium project. As others have stated it is not going to be a Jerry's World Gold Plated facility. It will be a functional building that is prudently priced and serves our needs.