The Dean Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 If Pegula gets the team a new stadium would be built quickly. Also a new 30 year lease. The current lease has no impact on a new stadium. Do we know that to be true? What if the new stadium isn't in Erie County (just for the sake of discussion). I didn't read the entire lease, but I did check out the penalty section and didn't see an out for a new stadium. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) The level of public fundig of stadiums is certainly a central issue in the long term viability of keeping the franchise in western NY. The issue of public funding for stadiums of professional franchises can't be categorized as a conservative or liberal issue. There is a shared view within the political spectrum that $$$ shouldn't be used (or at least less should be used) for franchises (private businesses). A lot of attention is focused on what the costs would be for a stadium (especially located downtown). That isn't the main money issue. The major financial committment from the public is going to be for infrastructure upgrades and land preparation for a new facility. In my view the prospective owner of the Bills will assume the major cost for the sport facility and the infrastructure costs will be borne by the public because of the spillover economic effect that will benefit the general public. In general I agree with much of what you say regarding the sale of the franchise. Where I have a slightly different view from you is that I believe that you are minimizing the political and financial challenges associated with the building of a new facility. It seems to me that your PSL approach to building a stadium is simply too facile for this very complicated financial committment. There are a number of reasons why I am a staunch advocate for Pegula as an owner. One of the primary reasons is that he understands what his financial obligation will be regarding the cost of a stadium that his team will play in. Obviously, the political and financial ramifications are huge. Nobody is downplaying that at all. There are tons and tons of ways to fund a stadium beyond just raising taxes. When stadiums are funded publicly it typically targets certain groups (bed tax, sin tax, etc...). There is a long thread on stadium finance and I don't feel like rehashing it here. My thoughts can be found there in terms of creative solutions (jock tax, in stadium f&b tax, etc...). My general philosophy is that the funding of a stadium should target out of town visitors and people using the facility. If it isn't something that you care about you won't be paying for it. Edited August 9, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
K D Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Only a downtown "multi-use" stadium makes sense imo. Tie it all in as a new convention center/hotel/retail/restaurants/condos/buffalo sports museum. Something like that is much easier to pitch to politicians and tax payers alike. There are a lot of people in the community opposed to putting money towards stadiums, but if it's something that benefits everyone and also adds to the downtown/waterfront renewal then people will be into it. And if somehow we can get a Super Bowl or even an NFL draft or combine, then that will benefit the local economy that much more. With the tax breaks plus some state money, I'm sure Pegula could make it happen
Peter Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 JBJ is reminding me of some type of spoiled child (ex. FARUKA IN WILLY WONKA) - "but I want a golden egg now!" I think everyone, except JBJ, is starting to realize this bid is dead and a move to Toronto was inevitable if he purchased the team. Whispers about Robert Kraft and Jerry Jones telling him to "pack it in" were leaked, yet he desperately feels he's somehow entitled ... ""But, I'm Bon Jovi." JBJ you are playing WAY OVER YOUR HEAD." These guys are BILLIONAIRES ... You are out of their league. Millionaires don't cut it at this level, no matter what a great owner JAWS says you'd be. Go back and put out a few more crappy albums, maybe a Christmas one, and try to whore yourself out to another set of investors tracking a new team. THIS ONE STAYS HERE. I love the Willy Wonka reference. There is a severe penalty for breaking the lease on The Ralph with Erie County. In fact, there is a severe penalty for attempting to break the lease. I think the smart money says the new stadium is ready for the out in 2020---or a at the end of the current lease. I figure it will take at least that long to get the project designed, approved and built. BTW, is the new Peace Bridge finished yet? I believe the penalty is designed to protect any attempted move away from WNY. I do not believe the state or county would have an issue with a move to another location in WNY provided all were on board with financing etc.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Someone tweeted a picture of the view from Pegula Sports and Entertainment's new offices in Downtown Buffalo. Could a stadium be built behind FNC? Imagine that view.
eball Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 If they could only get rid of that wretched skyway. Just ruins the aesthetics of downtown.
BRAWNDO Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Only a downtown "multi-use" stadium makes sense imo. Tie it all in as a new convention center/hotel/retail/restaurants/condos/buffalo sports museum. Something like that is much easier to pitch to politicians and tax payers alike. There are a lot of people in the community opposed to putting money towards stadiums, but if it's something that benefits everyone and also adds to the downtown/waterfront renewal then people will be into it. And if somehow we can get a Super Bowl or even an NFL draft or combine, then that will benefit the local economy that much more. With the tax breaks plus some state money, I'm sure Pegula could make it happen Someone tweeted a picture of the view from Pegula Sports and Entertainment's new offices in Downtown Buffalo. Could a stadium be built behind FNC? Imagine that view. Probably a few blocks away near the casino. The site of the current Perry Housing Development seems to be popular.
thebandit27 Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Someone tweeted a picture of the view from Pegula Sports and Entertainment's new offices in Downtown Buffalo. Could a stadium be built behind FNC? Imagine that view. This is the location I've been hoping for to be honest
THE GUY YELLING BEHIND YOU Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 The Art Voice plan was a good mock up. Not sure burying the 190 would work though.
JohnC Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Obviously, the political and financial ramifications are huge. Nobody is downplaying that at all. There are tons and tons of ways to fund a stadium beyond just raising taxes. When stadiums are funded publicly it typically targets certain groups (bed tax, sin tax, etc...). There is a long thread on stadium finance and I don't feel like rehashing it here. My thoughts can be found there in terms of creative solutions (jock tax, in stadium f&b tax, etc...). My general philosophy is that the funding of a stadium should target out of town visitors and people using the facility. If it isn't something that you care about you won't be paying for it. The stadium cost is not the most significant cost associated with the project. The infastructure costs and site preparation costs are tremendous. The challenge on agreeing to a site is not going to be easy to settle. Dedicated hotel taxes in itself is not a simple issue because using those funds for a stadium project results in not using those same funds for other worthy projects. I want to see a new stadium built. But it's my view that a new facility should be mostly borne by the owner of the franchise in order to get the support of the public for the ancillary projects required for the new facility. The expectations of public support taken by the last owner is not the approach that is going to be accepted in this more restrictive era for the next owner. The building of a new Peace Bridge seemed to make a lot of sense for a city located next to the Canadian border. The wrangling lasted more than a decade. The bottom line is it couldn't get done for a variety of reasons associated with politics, environment and philosophy regarding development. Similar issues will come into play on the stadium issue.
Buffalo_Stampede Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) Can anyone confirm the rumors that if Pegula reinvested the $1.75 billion into Pegula Sports and Entertainment to build a stadium he can save around $400 million in capital gains tax from the land sale he just closed? There just seem to be a lot of coincidences happening with Pegula. I feel he had this planned for years. Edited August 9, 2014 by TheTruthHurts
Peter Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Can anyone confirm the rumors that if Pegula reinvest in Pegula Sports and Entertainment to build a stadium he can save around $400 million in capital gains tax from the land sale he just closed? One of the local reporters posted this could happen under certain circumstance after speaking with a tax attorney. No idea whether this is correct.
BRAWNDO Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Tim Graham @ByTimGraham 6m I've been reporting about 16 parties signed Bills nondisclosure agrmnt. But I'm told number has grown to at least 20 over past couple weeks. Tim Graham @ByTimGraham 5m Further indication that Morgan Stanley is priming the pump to get whatever it can out of the Bills sale.Expand
PromoTheRobot Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Do we know that to be true? What if the new stadium isn't in Erie County (just for the sake of discussion). I didn't read the entire lease, but I did check out the penalty section and didn't see an out for a new stadium. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention. It would take 6 years to fully complete a stadium. By then the 7-year window would open. The county could easily waive the $28MM fee to break the lease because the Bills would be signing a new longer lease....assuming the county even owns any new stadium. It might belong to Pegula is he builds it himself.
YoloinOhio Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Tim Graham @ByTimGraham 6m I've been reporting about 16 parties signed Bills nondisclosure agrmnt. But I'm told number has grown to at least 20 over past couple weeks. Tim Graham @ByTimGraham 5m Further indication that Morgan Stanley is priming the pump to get whatever it can out of the Bills sale.Expand oh geez. 20?
3rdand12 Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) I love Tim Graham.. always thinking of us Fans and how we might react to some well considered and factually correct factorinos . .and then spinning it for all he is worth . If i was a sadist i would marry him. and take him straight to Hell . Im a guy by the way with a wife and 4 kids. But i would do this sacrifice to save all you folks from this this horrid man . Edited August 9, 2014 by 3rdand12
Big Turk Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 Questionable logic. The Bills made between 30-40 million last year, and with a new stadium make 60 million. I question how a 1 billion stadium and the debt payments that come with it wouldn't cut into the bottom line. The Ralph is basically debt free, a new owner will carry around 200 million in borrowing cost for purchasing the franchise and 1/2 the cost of a stadium. Huge tax shelter allows them to write off taxes from other businesses...been discussed in Forbes
Buffalo_Stampede Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 oh geez. 20? Means nothing. At one point people said 60 signed the NDA. Pointless reporting, It would take 6 years to fully complete a stadium. By then the 7-year window would open. The county could easily waive the $28MM fee to break the lease because the Bills would be signing a new longer lease....assuming the county even owns any new stadium. It might belong to Pegula is he builds it himself. 3 years to build. We dont know how far along they are in the money talks though. If those go well the Bills could be playing in a new building come 2018.
KevinL Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/nfl-renews-push-for-a-new-bills-stadium-20140809 Not a lot new but still an interesting read.
BUFFALOKIE Posted August 9, 2014 Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/nfl-renews-push-for-a-new-bills-stadium-20140809 Not a lot new but still an interesting read. The NFL wants a new stadium in Buffalo. No new news here. But in response to the notion that a new stadium would "improve the fan experience", someone else here on TSW said it first, and I think it bears (bares?) Repeating: the best way to improve the fan experience is to keep ticket prices low. I don't go to games, so I'm talking out of my rear a bit, but am I wrong? Are you ticket holders so disappointed by the stadium amenities that you would consider not going? I think I know the answer. GO BILLS!!! On a different note, they have been playing the $#!+ out of Bon Blow-me for the last month on my favorite classic rock station. That twerp sure has gotten a lot of exposure over this. Edited August 9, 2014 by THE KIKO MONSTER
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