New sale of team thread

[Nanker]

Watch it, bub!

 

 

 

I'm always lurking, Hazed.

 

 

 

 

 

That's exactly what I'm thinking.

 

 

You bet your arse I'm making notes.

 

I'm a bit confused about why Golisano is bidding, He made a point of saying he would be available to help keep the Bills in Buffalo, but made it clear he wasn't "possessed" to be the Bills owner. He almost made it seem like he would be a reluctant bidder if no local options emerged. I honestly figured Pegula's interest would relieve him of any responsibility he felt to the area. Pegula is clearly keeping the Bills in the Bufftown.

 

I had to wonder if he was bidding simply to let the Bon Jovi group (and perhaps Trump) know they will have to outbid two "local" guys, not one.

 

Now, if it's true the Wilsons want Golisano (I'm not sure how we know that) it might simply be a bid to save face. Or perhaps it is a bid to ensure there are enough bidders in the process to make sure they are getting top price. I don't begrudge them that.

 

For the record:

Pegula

Golisano

 

 

 

 

Trump

 

 

Bon Jovi isn't getting the team based on many factors. I don't think people should be worried about that anymore (I never was). Nonetheless, I will continue my life long boycott of Bon Jovi based solely on his horrible music.

 

Thought for sure you were in Jail in Volusia County.

 

Welcome back. It's been a while.

[The Wiz]

But, if Golisano ran the Bills exactly like he ran the Sabres, the Bills would be amongst the biggest spenders in the league. His ONLY edict to Quinn and Darcy was "do not lose money." That was it. If he said that to Littman, Overdorf, Whaley, etc., the Bills could or would be spending 30-40 million more per year that we do now on free agents, keeping their own and paying for others.

That's kind of apples to oranges though. With shared revenue/TV contracts I can't imagine how a team could ever lose money. Since the books aren't available we may never know. The NHL basically makes it bank on playoffs. If you make the playoffs, you end up in the black(depends on the popularity of the team like the 06-07 sabres). If you don't, you can end up in the red.

 

Golisano never spent big as the Sabres owner is my concern. He threw the contract at Vanek after Briere and Drury walked out of panic IMO. He did try to retain both of them, or at least one of them, and failed.

 

I agree with your point about the 30-40 million though. That's basically the average for most teams during FA in the NFL.

Edited August 2, 2014 by The Wiz

[Jerry Jabber]

None . I don`t know where all these posters are getting info. Toronto news reporters. Nothing official yet. Ehh.

 

Thanks! I read in a few articles about Pegula & Trump being selected, but nothing about the Toronto group.

 

I find the Golisano angle to be interesting. He had dinner with Russ Brandon earlier in the year (after Ralph passed), so I'm wondering if he's the one the Bills trust really wants? I think Pegula can offer much more than Golisano as Pegula has more than double the money of Golisano.

[Kelly the Dog]

None . I don`t know where all these posters are getting info. Toronto news reporters. Nothing official yet. Ehh.

There is never going to be anything "official" until it's completely over and announced. If you are waiting for that, why even come here? The articles written by reputable and less than reputable reporters is still just second and third hand information, and everything has to be put into perspective. There are a few people on this site that have some very good contacts and get some good insider info, but it isn't necessarily true.

 

But if you follow this thing very, very close, and know something about it, and know where all parties are coming from, you can get a pretty damn good guess about where things stand. It doesn't mean it's 100% etched in stone true.

 

The Bills are not leaving Buffalo though. That's a 99% certainty, IMO.

[aristocrat]

I agree. But that is not the issue at all. The issue is two members of that old guard are making the decision on who gets the team. And the main decider, Mary Wilson, very likely wants to hear that all her friends do not lose their jobs when she makes that decision. So if the money is close, and the team stays in Buffalo, why wouldn't they choose the guy that promises no change.

 

She cant dictate terms like that. if someone in the trust founs out she enriched friends she would be violating the will and could be sued. the new owner is able to do what they want with the team.

[Kelly the Dog]

Thanks! I read in a few articles about Pegula & Trump being selected, but nothing about the Toronto group.

 

I find the Golisano angle to be interesting. He had dinner with Russ Brandon earlier in the year (after Ralph passed), so I'm wondering if he's the one the Bills trust really wants? I think Pegula can offer much more than Golisano as Pegula has more than double the money of Golisano.

The Toronto guy who is all over the story, at this point, says he has no information that the Toronto group has been advanced. That doesn't mean they haven't, or even he thinks they won't, but he hasn't been able to find reliable information that they have advanced. There are other reports, like from John Wawrow, that Trump and Pegula have advanced. They haven't reported on the Toronto group advancing because they too haven't found anyone that can give them solid info it is true.

 

Tim Graham, as far as I know, is the only so far who has said his sources say all three of them advanced. He tweeted as such two days ago.

[SRQ_BillsFan]

The whole thing seems odd and at 1st glance just to raise the price. Unless reports are wrong and El Pegula has a upper limit he won't pass and the trust thinks jBJ will.

 

I know there is an NDA but if I were TPegs I would be on the phone to MR G asking what's up? If u want it fine. But don't make me pay more for no reason.

[Kelly the Dog]

She cant dictate terms like that. if someone in the trust founs out she enriched friends she would be violating the will and could be sued. the new owner is able to do what they want with the team.

That's not true. It depends on what her husband wrote into how The Trust should make the decision. All four of them have the same group as friends, btw. As far as long time Bills front office management people I mean. Two, Littman and Owen, are Bills senior management. The instructions could very well be keep the team in Buffalo and try to keep things status quo as much as possible.

[thebandit27]

The whole thing seems odd and at 1st glance just to raise the price. Unless reports are wrong and El Pegula has a upper limit he won't pass and the trust thinks jBJ will.

 

I know there is an NDA but if I were TPegs I would be on the phone to MR G asking what's up? If u want it fine. But don't make me pay more for no reason.

 

I'm openly speculating here...I don't think any of what's transpired would be considered surprising to any of the prospective owners.

 

[Kelly the Dog]

That's kind of apples to oranges though. With shared revenue/TV contracts I can't imagine how a team could ever lose money. Since the books aren't available we may never know. The NHL basically makes it bank on playoffs. If you make the playoffs, you end up in the black(depends on the popularity of the team like the 06-07 sabres). If you don't, you can end up in the red.

 

Golisano never spent big as the Sabres owner is my concern. He threw the contract at Vanek after Briere and Drury walked out of panic IMO. He did try to retain both of them, or at least one of them, and failed.

 

True. But it's entirely understandable for him to say I'm cool with anything you do, I just don't want to "lose" money. That is a reasonable request for a rich businessman. He may not say the exact same thing to the Bills guys, but he very well may. It may not be apples and oranges just because the leagues work much differently, and as you say, you cannot really lose money in the NFL. I just think that he is not a cheapskate, he just didnt want to lose money. And he very well could have that same attitude with the Bills.

[aristocrat]

That's not true. It depends on what her husband wrote into how The Trust should make the decision. All four of them have the same group as friends, btw. As far as long time Bills front office management people I mean. Two, Littman and Owen, are Bills senior management. The instructions could very well be keep the team in Buffalo and try to keep things status quo as much as possible.

 

Why would ralph put a clause like that in the trust? It would cause the team to be sold for less money. You can put in a clause that each employee will be evaluated and maybe employed for the season but when have you heard of that in a team sale? It just screams of peoplw making stuff up.

[Kelly the Dog]

Why would ralph put a clause like that in the trust? It would cause the team to be sold for less money. You can put in a clause that each employee will be evaluated and maybe employed for the season but when have you heard of that in a team sale? It just screams of peoplw making stuff up.

Not necessarily. Put it this way: You own a company for 50 years. It is selling for over a billion dollars. You have been loyal to a fault to 20 men and women for the last 10-20 years of your life and the company. Which would you prefer when you are no longer the owner: A] 1.2 billion and all of your cronies get to keep their jobs, or B] 1.3 billion and the new guy cleans house?

 

To me, the answer is simple and it's not even close. I choose A. Other people may choose B, saying it's 100 million freaking dollars.

 

Granted, that is not exactly what is happening here because Pegula is not going to clean house either. But it surely makes a lot of sense that Mary would want to fulfill her husband's wishes and keep the team intact if the money is close. The further the money gets away from being even, the harder it is to make the choice of keeping the upper management intact.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[Augie]

 

 

Why would ralph put a clause like that in the trust? It would cause the team to be sold for less money. You can put in a clause that each employee will be evaluated and maybe employed for the season but when have you heard of that in a team sale? It just screams of peoplw making stuff up.

 

We don't have to know WHY Ralph set things up as he did, we just have to know that he and his family have a degree of wealth that allows them to do whatever they'd like. Maybe Ralph's NOT cheap. Maybe he just wanted to get the best possible price to stay in WNY. (Hence they try to bring in Golisano to perk things up.) That's the way he lived, why can't he leave it that way when he's gone? He could have cashed in decades ago if it was all about the money.

 

Having said all that, I certainly haven't read any of the estate planning documents so I admit to having no clue where this is going - or why. I'm guessing and not making stuff up. Others seem to have some pretty reliable sources.

[RuntheDamnBall]

My tape recorder is always on. It is just a little different than what I have heard. There aren't many free loaders left as RB put a halt to the gravy train over the last 7-8 years. The majority of people there are good at what they do.

Chuck Lester sheds a single tear in the corner.

[CodeMonkey]

Not necessarily. Put it this way: You own a company for 50 years. It is selling for over a billion dollars. You have been loyal to a fault to 20 men and women for the last 10-20 years of your life and the company. Which would you prefer when you are no longer the owner: A] 1.2 billion and all of your cronies get to keep their jobs, or B] 1.3 billion and the new guy cleans house?

 

To me, the answer is simple and it's not even close. I choose A. Other people may choose B, saying it's 100 million freaking dollars.

 

Granted, that is not exactly what is happening here because Pegula is not going to clean house either. But it surely makes a lot of sense that Mary would want to fulfill her husband's wishes and keep the team intact if the money is close. The further the money gets away from being even, the harder it is to make the choice of keeping the upper management intact.

B. Because its 100 million freaking dollars and my top priority is to my wife and other heirs. And he could not know for sure if the difference would end up being between 1.2B and 1.3B or 800mil and 900mil. I don't care who you are, even Mr. Terry Pegula, 100 million dollars is a lot of money. Far more than most of us will make in a lifetime.

 

Think like a businessman, which Mr. Wilson was and Mr. Pegula is, and not with your heart like a fan.

Edited August 2, 2014 by CodeMonkey

[Augie]

Think like a businessman, which Mr. Wilson was and Mr. Pegula is, and not with your heart like a fan.

 

No offense, but I think Warren Buffett and Bill Gates know a few things about business as well. They have gone with option A. There are two ways of looking at it and different people will take different approaches. Not right or wrong, just different.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Augie

[aristocrat]

Not necessarily. Put it this way: You own a company for 50 years. It is selling for over a billion dollars. You have been loyal to a fault to 20 men and women for the last 10-20 years of your life and the company. Which would you prefer when you are no longer the owner: A] 1.2 billion and all of your cronies get to keep their jobs, or B] 1.3 billion and the new guy cleans house?

 

To me, the answer is simple and it's not even close. I choose A. Other people may choose B, saying it's 100 million freaking dollars.

 

Granted, that is not exactly what is happening here because Pegula is not going to clean house either. But it surely makes a lot of sense that Mary would want to fulfill her husband's wishes and keep the team intact if the money is close. The further the money gets away from being even, the harder it is to make the choice of keeping the upper management intact.

 

So youre saying that ralph put in his will to sell his lifes work for less money cause he values his friends over his wife and heirs. The trust could accept a 500 mil bid if they get to keep their jobs. This just doesnt make sense

[Kelly the Dog]

B. Because its 100 million freaking dollars and my top priority is to my wife and other heirs. And he could not know for sure if the difference would end up being between 1.2B and 1.3B or 800mil and 900mil. I don't care who you are, even Mr. Terry Pegula, 100 million dollars is a lot of money. Far more than most of us will make in a lifetime.

 

Think like a businessman, which Mr. Wilson was and Mr. Pegula is, and not with your heart like a fan.

It isn't just set up to take the top dollar. There are instructions, and it includes a few different things. We don't know what they are. One of them, surely, is sell to a local owner. One of them, surely, is get a huge amount of money. The other instructions, if any, could be a few different things. I was just giving a hypothetical. What if the difference between the two bids was not 100m it was 10m? We don't know what the bids are, and how close they are.

 

I don't know what Mary thinks, but I would bet anything that Ralph's choice would be A. That was the kind of man he was and he proved it many a time. I would also bet that Mary wants both the best deal she can get AND get what her late husband would have wanted. If the bids are equal, tie goes to the status quo. If the bids are very, very close, it still may go to the status quo. The further the final bids get apart from each other, the harder it is to turn down the money.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

Trump is not on my list. Has he EVER been in anything for the long haul? Or is it all about self-promoting and flipping (or bankrupting) things for the best possible financial outcome for.... Trump? No trust there.

I also don't believe it when someone who is suddenly all about Buffalo. At least a guy like Jeffrey Gundlach grew up here.

Edited August 2, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[Kelly the Dog]

So youre saying that ralph put in his will to sell his lifes work for less money cause he values his friends over his wife and heirs. The trust could accept a 500 mil bid if they get to keep their jobs. This just doesnt make sense

No, not at all. It's not black and white. Just use some common sense. They are evaluating bids. There are more factors than just money. The Trust is not obligated to take the most money, they are obligated to fulfill the wishes of the Trust. The Trust is not about making the most money, that is already pretty well established by people who know something about this. One of the stipulations is keep the team in Buffalo. There are likely others.