New sale of team thread

[Kelly the Dog]

Impatient? We been waiting 15 years for this. What the trust has to bleed everyone. The more they take from the new owner now, the harder it going to be to keep the team in WNY for the long haul.

Wrong. Pegula is winning this. He's fairly young, his wife is younger and interested in the teams they own, and they have kids who are sports minded. When they win, we are pretty much secured for a generation and maybe two of them.

 

You're being foolish and wrongly antagonistic. There is zero wrong with getting the most they can get without being dishonest, which they are not. Everyone benefits. The Trust, The NFL and the city of Buffalo. Ralph did the city an amazing service, and if you are not informed enough about what really went down, that's okay. Continue being wrongheaded.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Kelly the Dog

[kasper13]

Bills fan for almost 40 years, I always expect the rug to get pulled out from under us. Not impatient. If 5pm on the 30th was a soft deadline, why did they not just say that? I believe there is a ton of speculation, misinformation and flat out guessing going on at this point. Nobody really knows what any of the facts are. We don't actually even know what the original bids were or even if Toronto bid or not. All we know for sure is that Trump and Pegula placed bids. That's it at this point.

[Kelly the Dog]

Bills fan for almost 40 years, I always expect the rug to get pulled out from under us. Not impatient. If 5pm on the 30th was a soft deadline, why did they not just say that? I believe there is a ton of speculation, misinformation and flat out guessing going on at this point. Nobody really knows what any of the facts are. We don't actually even know what the original bids were or even if Toronto bid or not. All we know for sure is that Trump and Pegula placed bids. That's it at this point.

There were reports that the deadline was a soft deadline before it happened. Just because you didn't see them doesn't mean they didn't exist. The trust can do anything they want. Bills fans should be on their knees to Ralph and the Trust for what is actually going on (even though if it just went to the highest bidder, Pegula would probably win that, too).

[BringBackFergy]

I should have used that "soft deadline" excuse when I came home at 3am a few years back from a night out with some buddies...."yes dear, I told you I'd be home around 11pm but that was a soft deadline"

[DJasper Probincrux III]

Been off the grid all day. What's he general consensus on today's developments?

It means to me that they threw Toronto out and the bankers want to get another bid because they don't think Trump will making a big binding bid which will deflate the eventual sale price because Pegula won't bid against himself.

[clearwater cadet]

Wrong. Pegula is winning this. He's fairly young, his wife is younger and interested in the teams they own, and they have kids who are sports minded. When they win, we are pretty much secured for a generation and maybe two of them.

 

You're being foolish and wrongly antagonistic. There is zero wrong with getting the most they can get without being dishonest, which they are not. Everyone benefits. The Trust, The NFL and the city of Buffalo. Ralph did the city an amazing service, and if you are not informed enough about what really went down, that's okay. Continue being wrongheaded.

 

I hear you loud and clear, but i don't agree. He bought the team for 25,000 can sell it for over a billion, made 100's of millions along the way, and took all the freebie tax payer handouts he could get. His family isn't hurting for money and if they are that's there own fault. He was a great business man. But like most of us here, I sat thru all those years of sh#t and misery, we lost a lot more then we won, and I always came back. Never once did I or any of us turn my back on them. Anytime they wanted to raise price or taxes to help the team, I never had an issue with it. I gladly contacted the Bills fan alliance and pledged 1000 dollar if it would help keep the team in Buffalo when the time comes. And just to show I'm not a total pri#k, I own 2 season tickets, and I don't even live in Buffalo or anywhere close by anymore, but I bought them so I can support the team and go to a couple of games a year, while I donate the rest to charity. I also go to at least 1 road game a year. I hope I've supported the team enough to expect a little loyalty in return.

 

You can honestly tell me that if they got 1.3 billion for the team that would be unfair to this estate? I think his estate is making out very well if the current speculation is correct, and the fact that his name will live on is priceless. Whats a better thing? A new owner is stuck paying an extra 300 million for the team, when that money to run the team or they could be put towards a new stadium. No instead the new ownership get taken, and the has to try to sell PSL to make up for it? I hope Pegula gets the team, I really do. However you have to admit the longer this thing goes on the greater the chance things will go wrong. Call me wrongheaded, but I've been to to many Bills games to know they usually Fu#k it up in the end. If it's true, " There is zero wrong with getting the most they can get without being dishonest." maybe we should encourage them to move to LA or Toronto where they worth so much more so the estate doesn't have to loss out.

[Kelly the Dog]

I hear you loud and clear, but i don't agree. He bought the team for 25,000 can sell it for over a billion, made 100's of millions along the way, and took all the freebie tax payer handouts he could get. His family isn't hurting for money and if they are that's there own fault. He was a great business man. But like most of us here, I sat thru all those years of sh#t and misery, we lost a lot more then we won, and I always came back. Never once did I or any of us turn my back on them. Anytime they wanted to raise price or taxes to help the team, I never had an issue with it. I gladly contacted the Bills fan alliance and pledged 1000 dollar if it would help keep the team in Buffalo when the time comes. And just to show I'm not a total pri#k, I own 2 season tickets, and I don't even live in Buffalo or anywhere close by anymore, but I bought them so I can support the team and go to a couple of games a year, while I donate the rest to charity. I also go to at least 1 road game a year. I hope I've supported the team enough to expect a little loyalty in return.

 

You can honestly tell me that if they got 1.3 billion for the team that would be unfair to this estate? I think his estate is making out very well if the current speculation is correct, and the fact that his name will live on is priceless. Whats a better thing? A new owner is stuck paying an extra 300 million for the team, when that money to run the team or they could be put towards a new stadium. No instead the new ownership get taken, and the has to try to sell PSL to make up for it? I hope Pegula gets the team, I really do. However you have to admit the longer this thing goes on the greater the chance things will go wrong. Call me wrongheaded, but I've been to to many Bills games to know they usually Fu#k it up in the end. If it's true, " There is zero wrong with getting the most they can get without being dishonest." maybe we should encourage them to move to LA or Toronto where they worth so much more so the estate doesn't have to loss out.

Well first, let me commend you for being a great fan and a great Bills fan. That is not to be underestimated by me after your post, and it's awesome. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

We don't know exactly what is going on with the Trust and Morgan Stanley (who very well could be the delay here, telling the Trust, "hey, we have done this before, let it play out a day or two more just to see,,,nothing will change.")

 

I think fans, because of the twitter and social media age and play by play in this get impatient about things not moving at a meteoric pace when tidbits of information are released. If people, IMO, took a step back and looked at this in a big picture perspective, it's moving very fast in the best possible scenario for Bills fans like yourself.

[Rubes]

It means to me that they threw Toronto out and the bankers want to get another bid because they don't think Trump will making a big binding bid which will deflate the eventual sale price because Pegula won't bid against himself.

 

That actually seems to make some sense.

 

[Kelly the Dog]

That actually seems to make some sense.

It really does. I have no idea if that is true but you're right, it makes logical sense.

[clearwater cadet]

Well first, let me commend you for being a great fan and a great Bills fan. That is not to be underestimated by me after your post, and it's awesome. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

We don't know exactly what is going on with the Trust and Morgan Stanley (who very well could be the delay here, telling the Trust, "hey, we have done this before, let it play out a day or two more just to see,,,nothing will change.")

 

I think fans, because of the twitter and social media age and play by play in this get impatient about things not moving at a meteoric pace when tidbits of information are released. If people, IMO, took a step back and looked at this in a big picture perspective, it's moving very fast in the best possible scenario for Bills fans like yourself.

 

Thank you, and I'm sure your just as much of a fan as I'm, and lets remember we both want the same thing here. I believe Mr. Pegula is the best and most logical choice for all the reason you already stated, but I guess my big concern here is that I don't know if Morgan Stanley is just keeping the door open for bids or actually trying to solicit bids. I do agree the trust should leave the door open, they may get to the final stages and find out Pegula is involved in some type of law suit or crime, similar to the owner of the Browns. I'm not saying he is, but hey you never know. But if the trust is asking Morgan Stanley to actively try to purse bids, I don't think that's right. I feel the Pegula's are the best choice, they stepped up when they were supposed to, I think you would be hard pressed to find a fans or state offical who doesn't want the Pegula's to own the team, and I think the estate is getting more then a fair deal. If the current speculation is correct the Pegula's should not be squeezed because of it. I never disliked or liked Mr. Wilson, I thought he was good for the league, and I was thankful I had a team growing up, but I feel for everything he gave, he got back 10 times over already. You have to remember being a Bills fan conspiracy is in our blood. It a hard habit to break.

Edited August 1, 2014 by clearwater cadet

[What a Tuel]

It means to me that they threw Toronto out and the bankers want to get another bid because they don't think Trump will making a big binding bid which will deflate the eventual sale price because Pegula won't bid against himself.

 

Sounds logical to me. Let's hope Pegula's supposed 1.3 billion holds strong. I think I am just going to put my head in the ground (yeah right) until october when they will likely confirm whoever it is. 2 short months...meanwhile we have football to keep us occupied.

Edited August 1, 2014 by What a Tuel

[DanInUticaTampa]

If 5pm on the 30th was a soft deadline, why did they not just say that?

 

They didn't say it Because they want this process to be done behind closed doors. The trust isn't saying anything. All we get is random pieces of info from unnamed sources. So any of this information we get should be taken with a grain of salt and it should be obvious we will never get the whole story. And until the trust officially says something, nothing is official

 

It means to me that they threw Toronto out and the bankers want to get another bid because they don't think Trump will making a big binding bid which will deflate the eventual sale price because Pegula won't bid against himself.

 

this is probably the most true part, especially since there are no reports of Bon Jovi's group to go forward

[8-8 Forever?]

There are not many off the top of my head (if any). The league used to require the majority owner to own 51% but they lowered it to 30% because of the rising franchise costs. They won't let anyone finance more than $200M either. Say the number is $1.3B for the sale price. That means that JBJ would have to contribute $330M (30% of $1.1B).

 

This is the primary reason why a lot of people on here we're never that concerned about his group. They wanted it (and still do) but unless they are fronted by Rogers as the controlling owner (don't think Tannebaum can be because of the Leafs) they have no chance. JBJ is only interested in being the controlling owner from most speculation (not sure if that is true but wouldn't be surprised if it were). None of this is good for their chances with the league. The NFL would MUCH rather Pegula than a partnership leveraged to their eyeballs.

Paying $1.3B will only $200M in debt financing is incredibly low leverage. 15/85 debt/equity split for a cash cow NFL franchise is a very inefficient capital structure. But I get it, the NFL wants old rich guys with their own money in the club, which is fine. Certainly reduces the number of potential bidders, which is good for WNY. This thing could easily be 40-50% leveraged in the real world

[eball]

There were reports that the deadline was a soft deadline before it happened. Just because you didn't see them doesn't mean they didn't exist. The trust can do anything they want. Bills fans should be on their knees to Ralph and the Trust for what is actually going on (even though if it just went to the highest bidder, Pegula would probably win that, too).

 

Fans should have known it was a soft deadline when Golisano didn't make a bid because he believed (rightly so, it now seems) that this was not a hard deadline.

 

Perhaps Golisano is the wild card here...might we see a bid in the next week from him?

Edited August 1, 2014 by eball

[Nanker]

What about Mr. Pabst Blue Ribbon guy? He's about as hot-to-trot to get an NFL team as Jon-Bon-Dopey is.

[jimmy10]

It just wouldn't be a Bills story if there weren't a general sense of unease throughout the whole process.

[JohnC]

 

Yeah, I don't recall another situation where there were 3 people who had an almost equal stake in the team, with one having slightly more and thus being the principle owner. I'm not sure how that would fly with the other owners, but exceptions can always be made. Hopefully though, it's another strike against them in getting the team and one of which they're unaware.

 

The problem with a shared ownership approach, even if one party is actually managing the operation, if there is some conflict the power balance can dramatically shift. What happens if the Toronto boys want to go in one direction and the singer with the puffed out hair wants to go in a different directiion. It's simply an ownership structure that goes against the grain in the way the league does business.

[Peter]

If the JBJ group tries to make Rogers or Tannenbaum the lead partner, I have to believe it creates an even worse (than it already is) situation for that group (better for us) re the lease language.

 

The trustees can elect to have a smooth transaction with the Pegulas where they receive the most ever paid for an NFL franchise and be hailed as heroes or they can sell to carpetbaggers and have all the anger and resentment directed to JBJ transferred to them.

 

I continue to believe that Mary Wilson and the other trustees will do the right thing as well as honor Ralph's memory and legacy - and in the process receive an absolute fortune on a 25k initial investment.

 

Just my two cents.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Paying $1.3B will only $200M in debt financing is incredibly low leverage. 15/85 debt/equity split for a cash cow NFL franchise is a very inefficient capital structure. But I get it, the NFL wants old rich guys with their own money in the club, which is fine. Certainly reduces the number of potential bidders, which is good for WNY. This thing could easily be 40-50% leveraged in the real world

Agree on all fronts. It is different in other sports too. I don't know if it is still the case but the Celtics had 26-27 owners just a couple of years back. The NFL structure certainly helps the Bills though because while WNY does not have massive wealth they have a few big time players with an interst in keeping the team (Pegula, Golisano, Jacobs, etc...). If you could assemble groups or structure in any manner that you wanted you could have seen anything from Toronto or LA.

[JohnC]

 

 

Thank you, and I'm sure your just as much of a fan as I'm, and lets remember we both want the same thing here. I believe Mr. Pegula is the best and most logical choice for all the reason you already stated, but I guess my big concern here is that I don't know if Morgan Stanley is just keeping the door open for bids or actually trying to solicit bids. I do agree the trust should leave the door open, they may get to the final stages and find out Pegula is involved in some type of law suit or crime, similar to the owner of the Browns. I'm not saying he is, but hey you never know. But if the trust is asking Morgan Stanley to actively try to purse bids, I don't think that's right. I feel the Pegula's are the best choice, they stepped up when they were supposed to, I think you would be hard pressed to find a fans or state offical who doesn't want the Pegula's to own the team, and I think the estate is getting more then a fair deal. If the current speculation is correct the Pegula's should not be squeezed because of it. I never disliked or liked Mr. Wilson, I thought he was good for the league, and I was thankful I had a team growing up, but I feel for everything he gave, he got back 10 times over already. You have to remember being a Bills fan conspiracy is in our blood. It a hard habit to break.

 

I understand your sentiment as a fan. But the sale of a franchise is a high stakes business transaction. Morgan Stanley's job is not only to receive bids but also to pursue people who are capable of making higher bids. That's what they are obligated to do. The Wilson estate is not doing anything that is unfair or unreasonable. From my viewpoint this very complex sale is going very smoothly.

 

Again, I understand why you feel what you feel. I also want this ownership issue to end, and end well. But you can't compare the past environment when Ralph bought the franchise more than a half century ago for $25,000 to the current business environment. In the end I'm confident that Ralph Wilson will have done what is best for his estate and also what is fair to the region that enriched him so very much.

Edited August 1, 2014 by JohnC