Would you swap EJ for Fitz right now?

[beerfriday]

While I wouldn't swap him, I'm still not sure I understand the reasoning of cutting him last year. It seems like we still had plenty of cap room, and probably would not have had the issues Kolb had in terms of concussions.

 

I certainly would have been happier with Fitz's performance in cleveland versus Tuel.

 

(Thad Lewis was alright, but so hard to know the potential)

 

I also think that if Fitz lost the starting job via a fair competition he would have been professional.

 

Hard to argue him not wanting to renegotiate the contract both parties entered into willfully. Just as much as you can't argue with the Bills not wanting to renegotiate every year with Jason Peters.

[Thirty Year Fan]

1+

[NoSaint]

i bet the texans would swap ej for fitz right now. (and im not a fitz hater)

Edited August 7, 2014 by NoSaint

[quinnearlysghost88]

To be honest, I would take Losman. I think he wouldn't do too poorly

[Prickly Pete]

I couldn't imagine sitting through last year, and then this year again, with Fitz as the QB.

In fact, I wouldn't have done it, and the Bills organization knew it had to offer a different QB to the fans (and the players, who would have been even more dispirited).

 

Fitzpatrick"s time in Buffalo was up.

[thewildrabbit]

Good lord NO!!

 

Think back to that Titans game with Fitz trying to run the 2 min drill, and he ran the absolutely worst version of a hurry up offense I've ever seen.

 

Down by one point so all that was needed was a FG for the win. Bills ball on their own 20 with 1:03 to go.

 

First pass 6 yards to Fred Jackson, still 1:03 to go.

next pass to Chandler for 2 yards, 43 seconds to go

Third down and 2...incomplete

fourth down incomplete with 31 seconds left to go.

 

What a joke, couldn't even get a first down against the #32 defense in the league. team usually give up passes up the middle, and Fitz kept dumping the ball off for short gains.

 

Fitz

[Dopey]

What you say is exactly right. BUT...a vast majority of TBDers wanted Fitz rode out on a rail. All I'm asking is, in hindsight, would those fans swap that Fitz for the EJ if today?

NO

[Dorkington]

Last two minutes of a half:

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick (2012)

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT SACK RAT
48 76 498 63.2 6.55 30 3 3 6 78.7

 

EJ Manuel (2013)

CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG LNG TD INT SACK RAT
27 40 231 67.5 5.78 23 3 0 1 107.4

 

(Most other stats favor Fitz, just to be fair. )

Edited August 7, 2014 by Dorkington

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

 

1.For all the Fitz haters.....

 

2. EJ has a big arm but can't hit a barn on his deep throws.

 

3. EJ has far better weapons to work with.

 

4. His D is also slightly better,

 

5. you look just at those stats and make a quick note that the Titans D was not as good as ours,

 

6. nor is their running game,

 

7. there is no way you can sit here and say you wouldn't take Ftiz over EJ.

 

8. All this nonsense about, oh EJ has a bigger Ceiling.

 

 

Time to debunk the key arguments with facts:

 

1. Don't have to hate Fitz to see how absurd this proposed swap is. I like fitz, EJ is a better QB. EJs rookie QBR beat fitz's whole career.

 

2. Ej accuracy tested well on sport science shoe suggesting missed connections on the deep throw may be a timing issue. He hit some deep passes last year. Also in college his deep ball passer rating was exceptional. Not sure there is any evidence of the deep ball problem we so often hear.

 

3. Which weapons did manual have last year that Fitz didn't have the prior year? Woods? That's far better...1 player??

 

4. The pass d was better... Run d was poor as it has been. Looks like they went from 26th best to 20th best overall. Interestingly they scored about the same amount of points as the prior year. Not sure what we can conclude about QB play from this

 

5. Correct titans d was not as good as ours. It was better. 16th in the league.

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/oti/

 

6. Yes buffalo ran the ball a lot more, buf was 4.2 per carry and Ten 4.1 per carry. Is .1 YPC materially better for QB play? Dunno

 

7. Sure it's the only logical thing TO say. As a rookie he's carrying a better a career passing perfomance than a 7 or 8 year vet. it is very resonble to expect another jump and a level of play surpassing fitzy this season. He's also got a better career winning percentage.

 

8. Why is it nonsense to talk about potential being a selection criteria in august???? That's nonsense to call it nonsense. By virtue of the fact teams trade players for draft picks, there must be a value placed on potential in NFL circles.

 

If Fitz had accepted the restructuring, the team indicated they would have kept him. That said his history of losing training camp battles for the starting nod offers no evidence he would have beaten EJ for the job last year.

Edited August 7, 2014 by over 20 years of fanhood

[DC Greg]

Ryan Fitzpatrick was and is a poor, poor NFL quarterback. He really turned it on and showed some big time stuff for 3 games one season, for which he was awarded an enormous contract. After he took a jarring shot to the ribs via London Fletcher in Toronto vs. the Redskins, he never stepped up in the pocket and delivered the ball quite the same. That and I think DCs just caught on to his limited ability and Chan's playbook full of meticulously designed single route pass plays. Whenever the game was on line, Fitz was the absolute worst quarterback there was. Every time, without fail, you just knew that INT was coming. NFL football is going to be competitive, back and forth. It's the OBs who can make it happen on the last drive that will win those games instead of lose them to take you to the playoffs. Winning those close games at the end is what we haven't done, and what we need a real QB to do.

 

I have serious doubts about EJ, but it's only year two. I'd rather take my chances with him than what I know you've got in RF.

[Spillnation]

If Buddy wasn't such a blockhead and understood modern day technology we would probably still have Fitz as a back up and would've avoided last year's QB carousel. Ahhh Deadspin, didn't read you then but I sure do now, smh. We probably would do alright with Fitz and the talent we have right now. Which leads me to believe we will do just fine this year with EJ. If Fitz ever got back to the Bills I'd welcome him with open arms... and hand him clipboard duties. Too much bad blood for that but it seems like Houston doesn't care much for Buddys opinion... Fitztragic.

[Captain Caveman]

The real thread would be, who would you rather have on this team, EJ, or Rob Johnson / Doug Flutie.

[You herd it hear last]

Ryan Fitzpatrick was and is a poor, poor NFL quarterback. He really turned it on and showed some big time stuff for 3 games one season, for which he was awarded an enormous contract. After he took a jarring shot to the ribs via London Fletcher in Toronto vs. the Redskins, he never stepped up in the pocket and delivered the ball quite the same. That and I think DCs just caught on to his limited ability and Chan's playbook full of meticulously designed single route pass plays. Whenever the game was on line, Fitz was the absolute worst quarterback there was. Every time, without fail, you just knew that INT was coming. NFL football is going to be competitive, back and forth. It's the OBs who can make it happen on the last drive that will win those games instead of lose them to take you to the playoffs. Winning those close games at the end is what we haven't done, and what we need a real QB to do.

 

I have serious doubts about EJ, but it's only year two. I'd rather take my chances with him than what I know you've got in RF.

 

Every rookie QB has bad games, and EJ had his no doubt. But every rookie QB doesn't have 2 4th qtr comebacks either. I think you chose a poor example. His numbers extrapolate to 3/season. Over a 12 year career, if we give him a chance and he finds it, those numbers are very good. The needle is pointing up on this guy IMO.

[Spillnation]

Every rookie QB has bad games, and EJ had his no doubt. But every rookie QB doesn't have 2 4th qtr comebacks either. I think you chose a poor example. His numbers extrapolate to 3/season. Over a 12 year career, if we give him a chance and he finds it, those numbers are very good. The needle is pointing up on this guy IMO.

That Raiders comeback 2 years ago was insane!

[DC Greg]

Every rookie QB has bad games, and EJ had his no doubt. But every rookie QB doesn't have 2 4th qtr comebacks either. I think you chose a poor example. His numbers extrapolate to 3/season. Over a 12 year career, if we give him a chance and he finds it, those numbers are very good. The needle is pointing up on this guy IMO.

 

Certainly those are the positives we've seen, and they are encouraging. By all rights the offense should have put the Panthers to bed and rendered that last drive unnecessary with how many times our D stuffed Newton in that game. Likewise in the Baltimore game, thank god for the D for their 5 picks and all the sacks because the O couldn't put that one away either.

 

New England comes to mind as the flip side of that coin, where EJ failed with the ball in his hands on 3 late 4th quarter opportunities to even gain a first down. 3 3 and outs gave Brady the ball back one too many times. But I mean I know, that was his FIRST pro game. I'm definitely on board for giving the pass on that one. Just hoping to see the trend of confidence and aptitude in finishing games. I probably came off as too dismissive in the first post. I am as hopeful as anybody for EJ to turn out! Right now my spock side puts it at 50/50.

[reddogblitz]

Think back to that Titans game with Fitz trying to run the 2 min drill, and he ran the absolutely worst version of a hurry up offense I've ever seen.

 

Down by one point so all that was needed was a FG for the win. Bills ball on their own 20 with 1:03 to go.

 

First pass 6 yards to Fred Jackson, still 1:03 to go.

next pass to Chandler for 2 yards, 43 seconds to go

Third down and 2...incomplete

fourth down incomplete with 31 seconds left to go.

 

I was at that game. It was a really fun game until the bitter end.

 

Everything you say about Fitz here is correct.

 

However, if only he had a little help ...

 

While up by 6 at the 2:00 warning, the D has them at 2nd and 18 at their own 40 and then give up a TD in like 4 or 5 plays. A stop there and we win also. The D also gave up a 93 yard run from scrimmage by CJ2K untouched in the 1st half. Fitz had a really good game, but messed at the end, but it was a team loss.

Edited August 7, 2014 by reddogblitz

[Utah John]

Maybe it would help if EJ got to practice against the 3rd team defense for a while, to get his confidence up. As it is he's going against possibly the best D line in the NFL, behind a patched up O line with two rookie tackles. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady would get the willies too. Let EJ work against the scrubs for a week and see if he doesn't settle down then.

[3rdand12]

Realistically we are not trading for Fitz. The question is hypothetical.

the question is wut ?

 

I couldn't imagine sitting through last year, and then this year again, with Fitz as the QB.

In fact, I wouldn't have done it, and the Bills organization knew it had to offer a different QB to the fans (and the players, who would have been even more dispirited).

 

Fitzpatrick"s time in Buffalo was up.

It twas.

Fans were screaming for a draft pick

[Bronc24]

Unbelievable. Pickspatrick? No thanks.

[vincec]

First of all, I don't think that Fitz would look very good in Marrone's offense. This offense is old school- run the ball with power and make big plays downfield in the passing game. Maybe some read option too. Downfield passing and read option is not Fitz's game.