Training Camp tweets & media reports, week 3

[YoloinOhio]

@ChrisBrownBills: 4 things to take from Tuesday's practice. http://t.co/QJqDsOJCfv #Bills

[3rdand12]

Its not too far from 50-50, I've been surprised. However Kelso noticed there is a 'tell' if rb's line up slightly ahead of Qb its a pass

 

 

 

Looked better to me tonite than he has in awhile, no bouts with overthrows

If you are speaking of Lewis ?

I am in the camp of hope that both he Thad and Jeff can become formidable or even servicable back ups. They have a year under this coaching staff and are already invested in . Hate to repeat last year at this point. Obviously .

Edited August 6, 2014 by 3rdand12

[The Wiz]

seriously? I had been listening but had to step away, that makes me feel better.

You have to remember it is Rodak tweeting. He only sees the bad. I know Murph can be a homer at times but he mostly gives an unbiased observation (kind of like when he's calling the play by play).

 

And the terse Marrone presser:

 

http://www.buffalobi...anshare:twitter

 

Maybe it was just me, but I thought it was funny!

I thought it was funny also. They were asking some stupid questions. The defense looked good for their two series in the HOF game, were you happy about that? .....yes.

[snamsnoops]

Marrone's pressure was pretty good. The reporters couldn't even form sentences with the questions they asked! I liked it and took it as a breath of fresh air. We haven't had a coach do that in ..................

[Tasmo]

Seems like this was a Sal Maiorana bashing thread so far this week. I am from Rochester and I can tell you that he is known as "Ebenezer" here on the radio and among his colleagues. It's just the way he is. Once you get used to it he is actually one of the BEST reporters on the Bills out there. He has been covering the Bills for decades and has many published titles to show for it. Yes, he was being crabby about Marrone, but that is just Ebenezer doing what he does. Take it or leave it. I read his stuff and also listen to him on the Bills Brothers radio show on 1280am WHTK on Thursdays 3-4 once the season starts. Great round table conversations everyone here would dig!! Mike Catalana, John Ditulio, Sal Maiorana, Bob Mathews, Dan Moriarty and occasionally Chris Brown appears on the show that day. Good stuff.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Sal-Maiorana/e/B001HMUXKW

[Mango]

Listening to murph and Kelso, Kelso pointing out there is a tell on running back alignment. Every time running back aligns infront of QB in shotgun, pass. Everytime RB aligns even or behind QB, run. That's a terrible tell and they need to be aware/fix that.

 

In the Jauron years they had a terrible tell that said run everytime. Anytime they would motion josh reed in tight to the formation it was a run. It drove me crazy and I'm sure had DCs laughing.

 

It was more than that. Every time Trentative touched his helmet it was a run, regardless of motion.

[YoloinOhio]

Matthew Fairburn ‏@MatthewFairburn 9m

Here are my observations from #Bills practice last night: http://ow.ly/A08Ii

[eball]

Seems like this was a Sal Maiorana bashing thread so far this week. I am from Rochester and I can tell you that he is known as "Ebenezer" here on the radio and among his colleagues. It's just the way he is. Once you get used to it he is actually one of the BEST reporters on the Bills out there. He has been covering the Bills for decades and has many published titles to show for it. Yes, he was being crabby about Marrone, but that is just Ebenezer doing what he does. Take it or leave it. I read his stuff and also listen to him on the Bills Brothers radio show on 1280am WHTK on Thursdays 3-4 once the season starts. Great round table conversations everyone here would dig!! Mike Catalana, John Ditulio, Sal Maiorana, Bob Mathews, Dan Moriarty and occasionally Chris Brown appears on the show that day. Good stuff.

 

http://www.amazon.co...na/e/B001HMUXKW

 

Thanks for the tip, Mrs. Maiorana.

[Nanker]

Sal is a dope. We don't need him to be a conduit so we get coach speak; we are looking for analysis of what happens on the field.

Sal is poopie diapers. He eternally pizzed that a Jerry Glanville or Bum Phillips type isn't the HC of The Bills.

[Cash]

Listening to murph and Kelso, Kelso pointing out there is a tell on running back alignment. Every time running back aligns infront of QB in shotgun, pass. Everytime RB aligns even or behind QB, run. That's a terrible tell and they need to be aware/fix that.

 

In the Jauron years they had a terrible tell that said run everytime. Anytime they would motion josh reed in tight to the formation it was a run. It drove me crazy and I'm sure had DCs laughing.

 

Not only was it a run, it was always a run to Reed's side. They never even countered off it, much less play-action. Nor did they have any other plays they ran out of that formation/motion combo. That's really pathetic.

 

 

Hopefully that's just a TC thing, that can't happen during the season - I mean, they HAVE to know. Maybe a test for the O?

 

I dunno, I'm not super-optimistic about Hackett's pro offense. (I did like him a lot at SU, but I don't follow them as closely.) Last year, our run/pass ratio on 1st down was outrageously predictable. I would imagine that the run frequency was something like 80% or more when the score was tied. Once last year, I was so sick of seeing runs on every first down that I started counting -- I think 12 straight 1st down plays (over about 6 drives) were runs. I get the rationale of "let's establish the run and take some pressure off our rookie QB", but running every 1st down only puts more pressure on the QB, because you're so predictable that you wind up in 2nd-and-long all the time. The scripted start to the KC game was actually a MUCH better example of "let's take pressure off our rookie QB" -- started with some play-action, a couple of easy and low-risk throws, got a first down or two. So the potential (coaching-wise) is there, but why didn't we see it more often? Why were we so maddeningly predictable on first down?

 

The other thing that worries me, and makes me think that this "tell" is real, is that -- from what I saw last year -- the Bills' pass plays were very limited/predictable as well. Now, I don't have the full playbook, and I haven't "reviewed the tape" to confirm every pass play the Bills called. (PS: Stop saying tape. There is no tape. Unless you're watching on a VCR, you aren't watching tape. And film? You wanna spool up a projector, then you get to watch film. Until then, you're stuck watching videos like the rest of us.) But when Buffalo Rumblings or similar sites would break down Bills' plays from the previous week, there seemed to be a massive amount of overlap in the pass plays. Almost every play was either a "four verticals" with one checkdown, or two fly patterns down the sidelines with a couple of slants or crossing routes underneath. It just seemed really basic, like the kind of stuff you'd draw up for a sandlot game. I'm sure that there's more complex stuff in the playbook, and probably even in the gameplans, and I'm even sure that some of the complex stuff got called and ran some of the time. But I just didn't see much of it, whereas I did see a lot of the simple stuff. And the simple stuff didn't work well enough to get repeated that often.

 

The one big mystery -- that may never be solved -- is how much of this is on Hackett, and how much is on Manuel? The playbook can have the best plays in the world, but if the QB is only comfortable running Techmo Bowl stuff, then that's all that's going to get into the gameplan, and that's all that the offense will run. Similarly, a play (whether simple or complex) can open up great opportunities, but unless the QB takes advantage of them, it won't work.

[GG]

The one big mystery -- that may never be solved -- is how much of this is on Hackett, and how much is on Manuel? The playbook can have the best plays in the world, but if the QB is only comfortable running Techmo Bowl stuff, then that's all that's going to get into the gameplan, and that's all that the offense will run. Similarly, a play (whether simple or complex) can open up great opportunities, but unless the QB takes advantage of them, it won't work.

 

I think we're picking up signs that it may not be that big of a mystery, especially judging the difference in the offensive plays that were run with EJ in the line-up vs without him. Again, not a total knock on EJ, just an explanation of limitations Bills' O had to work with last year. That's one of the hopeful areas of improvement - an expanded playbook.

[FireChan]

 

 

Not only was it a run, it was always a run to Reed's side. They never even countered off it, much less play-action. Nor did they have any other plays they ran out of that formation/motion combo. That's really pathetic.

 

 

 

I dunno, I'm not super-optimistic about Hackett's pro offense. (I did like him a lot at SU, but I don't follow them as closely.) Last year, our run/pass ratio on 1st down was outrageously predictable. I would imagine that the run frequency was something like 80% or more when the score was tied. Once last year, I was so sick of seeing runs on every first down that I started counting -- I think 12 straight 1st down plays (over about 6 drives) were runs. I get the rationale of "let's establish the run and take some pressure off our rookie QB", but running every 1st down only puts more pressure on the QB, because you're so predictable that you wind up in 2nd-and-long all the time. The scripted start to the KC game was actually a MUCH better example of "let's take pressure off our rookie QB" -- started with some play-action, a couple of easy and low-risk throws, got a first down or two. So the potential (coaching-wise) is there, but why didn't we see it more often? Why were we so maddeningly predictable on first down?

 

The other thing that worries me, and makes me think that this "tell" is real, is that -- from what I saw last year -- the Bills' pass plays were very limited/predictable as well. Now, I don't have the full playbook, and I haven't "reviewed the tape" to confirm every pass play the Bills called. (PS: Stop saying tape. There is no tape. Unless you're watching on a VCR, you aren't watching tape. And film? You wanna spool up a projector, then you get to watch film. Until then, you're stuck watching videos like the rest of us.) But when Buffalo Rumblings or similar sites would break down Bills' plays from the previous week, there seemed to be a massive amount of overlap in the pass plays. Almost every play was either a "four verticals" with one checkdown, or two fly patterns down the sidelines with a couple of slants or crossing routes underneath. It just seemed really basic, like the kind of stuff you'd draw up for a sandlot game. I'm sure that there's more complex stuff in the playbook, and probably even in the gameplans, and I'm even sure that some of the complex stuff got called and ran some of the time. But I just didn't see much of it, whereas I did see a lot of the simple stuff. And the simple stuff didn't work well enough to get repeated that often.

 

The one big mystery -- that may never be solved -- is how much of this is on Hackett, and how much is on Manuel? The playbook can have the best plays in the world, but if the QB is only comfortable running Techmo Bowl stuff, then that's all that's going to get into the gameplan, and that's all that the offense will run. Similarly, a play (whether simple or complex) can open up great opportunities, but unless the QB takes advantage of them, it won't work.

 

It seemed to me that more complex plays were called when Thad and Tuel were playing. That, or they just attempted gutsier throws.

 

Didn't Hackett have to tone down the playbook for EJ?

[eball]

Re: playbook discussion above -- it's all about execution. Run simple plays flawlessly and you'll be successful. The Bills' skill players on offense appear to be good enough to win the one-on-one battles, so you don't need trickery to create mismatches. You just need EJ to be able to make the read and throw the ball in the right spot -- and there's the rub.

 

Which reminds me of one of my all-time favorite coach's remarks. When John McKay was asked about the Bucs' execution on offense, he responded: "I'm all for it."

[Donald Duck]

Re: playbook discussion above -- it's all about execution. Run simple plays flawlessly and you'll be successful. The Bills' skill players on offense appear to be good enough to win the one-on-one battles, so you don't need trickery to create mismatches. You just need EJ to be able to make the read and throw the ball in the right spot -- and there's the rub.

 

Which reminds me of one of my all-time favorite coach's remarks. When John McKay was asked about the Bucs' execution on offense, he responded: "I'm all for it."

 

 

Well said, its all about putting a hat on a hat and winning your battle.

 

We are bigger, faster, stronger and more talented then we have been in years.

 

Out physical your opponent...

Edited August 6, 2014 by Donald Duck

[Cash]

I think we're picking up signs that it may not be that big of a mystery, especially judging the difference in the offensive plays that were run with EJ in the line-up vs without him. Again, not a total knock on EJ, just an explanation of limitations Bills' O had to work with last year. That's one of the hopeful areas of improvement - an expanded playbook.

 

My counter to that would be that isn't it a poor OC/QB coach who allows his QB to only run plays that he's bad at running? Let's face it, long throws down the sidelines were not EJ's strengths last year. We could all see it -- why couldn't Hackett? If those were the only plays EJ was comfortable with, then Hackett needed to work with EJ to get EJ comfortable with other plays.

 

It really is a mystery to me. I don't know why EJ hardly ever runs -- how much of that is on him, and how much on his coaches? Last year, EJ consistently handed off the ball on "read-option" runs regardless of how the D reacted. On the rare occasions that he did keep it, it usually went for a nice gain. That seems to be on him. But he also seemed more comfortable running play-action and rolling out, but those plays seemed to get less frequent (or at least not more frequent) as the year went on. That seems to be on the coaches. Poor execution of deep sideline passes is definitely on EJ. But why did Hackett keep calling four verticals plays? There are other ways to beat press man besides deep fades. If EJ has trouble reading a defense and going through progressions, then why not give him half-field reads, or plays with "tuck the ball and run" as the second progression? The only thing I know is that the offense overall and QB specifically weren't nearly good enough. I don't know how much of that goes on the QB and how much on his OC/QB coach. (Definitely some on each, though.) The good news is that both of them are very young and inexperienced, and so you'd expect both to get better with experience.

 

Re: playbook discussion above -- it's all about execution. Run simple plays flawlessly and you'll be successful. The Bills' skill players on offense appear to be good enough to win the one-on-one battles, so you don't need trickery to create mismatches. You just need EJ to be able to make the read and throw the ball in the right spot -- and there's the rub.

 

Which reminds me of one of my all-time favorite coach's remarks. When John McKay was asked about the Bucs' execution on offense, he responded: "I'm all for it."

 

I respectfully disagree. No offense can consistently execute at a flawless or near-flawless level, especially against good defenses that are executing at a very high level themselves. And regarding our skill players, I agree with you when it comes to RBs -- it's a supremely talented group. But WRs and TEs? No. Not saying they stink, because I think it's a decent crew overall. But sometimes we tend to get caught in the fishbowl of our own team. Chandler is probably about the 20th-best TE in the league, give or take, and there's nothing behind him. Even if Moeaki was healthy, which he isn't and probably won't be, his best season was 47 catches for 556 yards and 3 TDs. Nice, but nothing special. He's not another Jordan Cameron waiting to happen.

 

As for WRs, we definitely stack up better there, but I still don't think it's a crew that can be counted on to just win 1-on-1 battles without help from a clever gameplan. Mike Williams' career bests are 65 catches and 996 yards -- great numbers for 30 years ago, mediocre for now. He does seem to have a knack for winning 1-on-1 battles in the end zone, which is good.

 

Watkins is a rookie. Yes, he's the most-hyped rookie WR since Julio Jones, awesome. Julio's rookie numbers? 54 catches for 959 yards and 8 TDs. Very good for a rookie, and I'll be pretty happy if Sammy matches them. But again, that's pretty much mediocre production. I don't think the goal we aspire to should be a league-average offense.

 

Woods I honestly do not get the love for. Not to say he sucks -- he's pretty decent -- but I'm not seeing the same player as some of the other posters on here. He seems to me like a nice WR, but nothing special. And Goodwin I love, but he's very much a part-time player.

[FluffHead]

**tweets I post in this thread are not mine and not necessarily endorsed by me.

 

@nfldraftscout: I feel comfortable saying EJ Manuel is the NFL's worst starting QB going into the season. Could change, he's young, but needs a lot of work

 

[Tyrod's Tailor]

**tweets I post in this thread are not mine and not necessarily endorsed by me.

 

@nfldraftscout: I feel comfortable saying EJ Manuel is the NFL's worst starting QB going into the season. Could change, he's young, but needs a lot of work

 

He also says that people who say Geno sucks are only looking at stats. I saw plenty of Geno last year and........he sucks.

[Donald Duck]

**tweets I post in this thread are not mine and not necessarily endorsed by me.

 

@nfldraftscout: I feel comfortable saying EJ Manuel is the NFL's worst starting QB going into the season. Could change, he's young, but needs a lot of work

 

 

Texans are starting Ryan Fitzpatrick , one of the biggest turnover machines in the NFL.

 

Its an unfair assessmnet to lay on a 2nd year player who spent much of his 1st season injured IMO.

 

Not to mention new Offense being installed, whole new coaching staff, sub par WR corp,

 

 

list goes on and on...

Edited August 6, 2014 by Donald Duck

[GG]

My counter to that would be that isn't it a poor OC/QB coach who allows his QB to only run plays that he's bad at running? Let's face it, long throws down the sidelines were not EJ's strengths last year. We could all see it -- why couldn't Hackett? If those were the only plays EJ was comfortable with, then Hackett needed to work with EJ to get EJ comfortable with other plays.

 

It really is a mystery to me. I don't know why EJ hardly ever runs -- how much of that is on him, and how much on his coaches? Last year, EJ consistently handed off the ball on "read-option" runs regardless of how the D reacted. On the rare occasions that he did keep it, it usually went for a nice gain. That seems to be on him. But he also seemed more comfortable running play-action and rolling out, but those plays seemed to get less frequent (or at least not more frequent) as the year went on. That seems to be on the coaches. Poor execution of deep sideline passes is definitely on EJ. But why did Hackett keep calling four verticals plays? There are other ways to beat press man besides deep fades. If EJ has trouble reading a defense and going through progressions, then why not give him half-field reads, or plays with "tuck the ball and run" as the second progression? The only thing I know is that the offense overall and QB specifically weren't nearly good enough. I don't know how much of that goes on the QB and how much on his OC/QB coach. (Definitely some on each, though.) The good news is that both of them are very young and inexperienced, and so you'd expect both to get better with experience.

 

Can't disagree with much, and can only guess that EJ's injuries really hurt his development and what Hackett could work on last year. It also gives a hint at why Marrone didn't hesitate to pull EJ out of the line up for the last two games.

 

That's why I keep harping on seeing progress from EJ. It's not the question on whether he needs another 1,2 or 3 years, it's the question on whether there are signs of progress after his offseason with the QB guru and a dedicated QB coach on the team.

[YoloinOhio]

Mike Rodak ‏@mikerodak 31m

Raising questions about Alan Branch, plus other final thoughts from Bills-Giants: http://es.pn/1oDigft

 

Mark Gaughan ‏@gggaughan 1m

UB wideouts are young, unproven but bring intriguing mix of abilities. http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/ub-football/quinn-has-confidence-in-untested-receiving-corps-20140805 …