C.Biscuit97 Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 I know it's not an EJ thread, but having watched his whole college career for both good and ill, his main attributes are atheleticism (especially running) and his ability to shake off all the mistakes and pull out a winnable game. His losses to the big programs (Oklahoma, especially) were more due to a crappy game plan and a horrid DC (Thank God, that guy is gone). The Bills need to let the guy run and deal with the injuries when they come. You are not going win with Manuel as a pocket passer. If they try to make him one, they are morons. Good post. It's funny all the crap EJ gets for the Ncsu game and he left the field with a lead. If Russell Wilson did that, he'd be considered a winner. The Bills are using the Wilson/ Kaapwrnick game plan. The 49ers and Seahawks tied for fewest pass attempts. Their Qbs aren't forced to win games single handedly. But they are big play players who can explode on any play.
Best Player Available Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 And therein is another flaw. He's not a good running QB like Luck & Newton, either. Right now, he's neither fish nor fowl, and it must be bewildering to the coaching staff to figure out where to take him. To me, he's a taller more athletic Flutie, without the game knowledge. Honestly, i don't remotely see the comparison to Flutie. Flutie always had a knack of making something out of nothing. And sometimes that was with his legs. he never quit until the whistle. his will to win was always evident. maybe it was because he always was having to prove himself. I don't see that with EJ at all. he try's, and obviously wants to succeed but again I think the comparison is a bad one.
GG Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Honestly, i don't remotely see the comparison to Flutie. Flutie always had a knack of making something out of nothing. And sometimes that was with his legs. he never quit until the whistle. his will to win was always evident. maybe it was because he always was having to prove himself. I don't see that with EJ at all. he try's, and obviously wants to succeed but again I think the comparison is a bad one. The comparison is that both thrived off helter skelter types of plays. If you look at EJ's limited work, he seems to turn it on in the end and somehow complete very ugly looking drives. That is very Flutiesque. Flutie did it because of his physical limitation, but the problem was that it was hard to run an offense because the WRs never knew where the ball was coming from. The big difference between the two was that Flutie was a much more natural QB, who had superior game knowledge when he got into the league. EJ isn't as polished at the position and doesn't have the same game knowledge, but their play is very similar for different reasons. That's why EJ is so frustrating to coach.
chris heff Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 The comparison is that both thrived off helter skelter types of plays. If you look at EJ's limited work, he seems to turn it on in the end and somehow complete very ugly looking drives. That is very Flutiesque. Flutie did it because of his physical limitation, but the problem was that it was hard to run an offense because the WRs never knew where the ball was coming from. The big difference between the two was that Flutie was a much more natural QB, who had superior game knowledge when he got into the league. EJ isn't as polished at the position and doesn't have the same game knowledge, but their play is very similar for different reasons. That's why EJ is so frustrating to coach. By the time Flutie got to the Bills hadn't he been playing professional football for like ten years?
GA BILLS FAN Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 I don't think it was high on Marrone's priority list at the time. Perhaps he should have considered us fans and gone against his own plans(which I'm sure he had several good reasons for).....and put EJ out there for longer just so we(the fans) could have a larger sample size to judge him on. Fans ? I don't want him out there to satisfy me or other fans, I want him out there to learn, develop and hopefully get better. This has nothing to do with appeasing the fans, it has everything to do with development of a QB that needs it.
GG Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 By the time Flutie got to the Bills hadn't he been playing professional football for like ten years? I'm referring to his years with Patriots for the proper comparison.
Best Player Available Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 The comparison is that both thrived off helter skelter types of plays. If you look at EJ's limited work, he seems to turn it on in the end and somehow complete very ugly looking drives. That is very Flutiesque. Flutie did it because of his physical limitation, but the problem was that it was hard to run an offense because the WRs never knew where the ball was coming from. The big difference between the two was that Flutie was a much more natural QB, who had superior game knowledge when he got into the league. EJ isn't as polished at the position and doesn't have the same game knowledge, but their play is very similar for different reasons. That's why EJ is so frustrating to coach. Okay, I agree. but EJ problems may be deeper than game knowledge. he simply may not have the IT factor. or as you state not as much of a natural QB.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Okay, I agree. but EJ problems may be deeper than game knowledge. he simply may not have the IT factor. or as you state not as much of a natural QB. He definitely didn't have it during the Panthers game. He definitely didn't have it against the Pats in the opener, where he played Brady to a draw a left the field with a lead after missing 2 weeks if his first training camp. EJ definitely doesn't have it.
Best Player Available Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 He definitely didn't have it during the Panthers game. He definitely didn't have it against the Pats in the opener, where he played Brady to a draw a left the field with a lead after missing 2 weeks if his first training camp. EJ definitely doesn't have it. Love how you put words in peoples mouth, or better yet seem unaware of the discussion. Did he have it in tampa? Do I need to go on?
thebandit27 Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Fans ? I don't want him out there to satisfy me or other fans, I want him out there to learn, develop and hopefully get better. This has nothing to do with appeasing the fans, it has everything to do with development of a QB that needs it. My opinion is that the reason the starters played so little is the 5-day turnaround before another game. No need to have them take any type of pounding so early in the season if they have only 4 days to rest up...know what I mean?
Big C Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Can we wait until the preseason game against Tampa at least before we start flipping out about EJ? Reports said he got a lot better the second week of camp, lets give him a chance to get comfortable out there.
FluffHead Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Can we wait until the preseason game against Tampa at least before we start flipping out about EJ? Reports said he got a lot better the second week of camp, lets give him a chance to get comfortable out there. Then after the Tampa game the rhetoric will be "well these games don't matter can't we wait to see what he does in the regular season?" Then after that it will be "well he was hurt his rookie season so this is really still his rookie season".
thebandit27 Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Then after the Tampa game the rhetoric will be "well these games don't matter can't we wait to see what he does in the regular season?" Then after that it will be "well he was hurt his rookie season so this is really still his rookie season". Will that be the case if he plays well or if he doesn't? My sense is either, so perhaps the right call is to wait until he plays some meaningful games regardless...I realize that's probably asking too much of a few folks though.
Nanker Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Some folks shure do enjoy having a funk in their spunk.
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Some folks shure do enjoy having a funk in their spunk. Gross.
GA BILLS FAN Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 My opinion is that the reason the starters played so little is the 5-day turnaround before another game. No need to have them take any type of pounding so early in the season if they have only 4 days to rest up...know what I mean? If that's the case, I guess we'll see on Friday, since they'll have 8 days before game #3.
You herd it hear last Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) No, no, no! We trade him to Philly for past considerations. Oh, and... There are times that you can beckon There are times when you must call You can shake a ton of reckoning But you can't shake it all There are times when I can help you out And times that you must fall There are times when you must live in doubt And I can't help at all Three blue stars / Rise on the hill Say no more, now / Just be still All these trials / Soon be past Look for something / Built to last Here's one for the EJ haters club Rat in a drain ditch, caught on a limb You know better, but I know him Hopefully there will be "nothing left to do, but smile smile smile" at the end of the season Edited August 5, 2014 by You herd it hear last
truth on hold Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Don't minimize the bills taking a shot at value. It's another contrast that stands out against those crowing "same old bills"... Minimize it? No I love it. The long standing philosophy of "high motor choir boys" drove me crazy. Off field issues have a chance of being straightened out, lack of talent doesn't.
BADOLBILZ Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 1) Nice to see Duke Williams get his number called a few times. I have no concerns about the secondary on this football team, at least not yet. 2) Nigel Bradham played as if he had something to prove, and he does. I am going to credit Marrone and the staff for this. 3) I have a feeling that Cordy Glenn will soon have a miracle recovery. Yes, I'm feeling it. Seantral Henderson was special to watch last night. 7th round pick? First game??? He will remind many of Glenn, but not me. I liken him more to Jason Peters; I kid you not. He extended his arms and sent people such as JPP flying!!! More on him later. 4) Thad was very disappointing. On one play late in the game he had tons of space to run and got sacked. Yeah, I am bummed out about his performance. 5) Bryce Brown looks like a keeper. I think he might even win us a game or 2. 6) No Hunter lyrics today. I have them but I'm saving them. 7) Tuel was Tuel. He has no fastball. Fitz has to put his entire body into a pass to throw it hard but he can do it at times. In other words, I doubt that he will ever be as good as Fitz. BUT, I think that his read option run was a VERY impressive play. They need to call this play for EJ and/or Thad during the season. It works. 8) Watching EJ was depressing. Not much more to say. 9) The Bills should hire off duty canine cops and post them outside the door of Henderson's room. If this kid gets in better shape and stays clean, his potential is simply HUGE!!! 10) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2) I liked what I saw of Bradham too. Light appears to be on. And they really need him to step up. 3) I agree with what you are saying there. The depth is going to push these veteran OL to work thru their injuries and just be tougher, IMO. Competition is good and it's been forever since there was any on the Bills OL. I must say I am shocked at how well Seantrel played. He pretty much sleep walked thru his entire Miami career. Interesting that he and Cyrus were both the top OT's in their class by various publications(Cyrus was rated the #1 recruit in the country regardless of position going into his senior year according to The Sporting News....Clowney was #2). Cyrus has talent too, I expect to see him play better but you gotta' be disappointed with him so far. Maybe with the depth on the OL the Bills take a chance and redshirt him this year and see if another surgery can get his knee right. 5)Bryce Brown is electric. I remember tuning in to his breakout game with the Eagles and I thought for a second it was McCoy. He literally has McCoy-type running talent. And they got him with a 7th round pick. You can imagine what I am thinking.....when the Bills need a RB it's always considered so urgent that they have to use a first round pick. I gotta' credit the Bills for taking flyers on talent like D'arrick and Seantrel lately. Big improvement in approach, IMO. Anyway, Bryce Brown can go OFF on a defense when his head is on right. The questions are the fumbling what kind of teammate is he, because the modern NFL RB can't really be a diva. There were reports that his impressive but very short burst of success lead to him trying to take the ball to the sideline instead of being willing to take the ball up the middle....and that kind of self serving style sounds a lot like what took him from being the top RB recruit in the country to a virtually non-existent college career and nearly going undrafted. Like it or not to be a lead RB in the NFL now you almost have to be the toughest guy on your team. It's the one position that gets no favors from the league. 8) EJ continues to live up to that "scouting" report. He gets his mechanics right but then forgets not to stare down his receiver or not to pat the ball in advance of his throw. Things that shouldn't be an issue for a QB who has been going thru the process of training to be a professional QB since he was going to big time passing camps in HS and played a lot of college football at a major program for 4 years. People here try to write these things off as "young QB" mistakes......but these are mistakes that you expect from a sophomore at Rutgers not an NFL QB. IMO: he's just a really slow learner. He's smart but utterly uninstinctive so it's going to be painful getting him to that level. When he was drafted I compared him to Phil Simms in that regard. A slow learner but someday could become a very good QB because he has raw tools and once he gets it, I think he may have a broader understanding of the game than some for whom it comes much easier. There is a parallel to Alex Smith as well.......another very intelligent player who looked like a complete idiot until the switch turned on(of course remember he was a 21 year old rookie too). Obviously I was hoping that since it's infinitely easier to play QB in the NFL now than it was in 1980 that maybe that timetable would be moved up. In the meantime both you and I thought he could use his ability to run the ball to his advantage to help bridge that performance gap. Three knee injuries later that run game might not be considered an option(it still should be IMO). From camp reports and the early look in Canton he is not showing encouraging signs. I really don't want to sit thru 3 more years of exactly the same kind of production he had last season before the light hopefully comes on. Maybe once he "learns" how to do things that come naturally to passers, like throw a catchable deep ball(etc..) he will bypass understandable young QB mistakes like poor decisions with the football.....and will emerge instantly as a top 15 NFL QB. But there seems to be this notion that if he is going to be good he will just get better and better and we should know by now that is not necessarily how it works. Are the Bills willing to wait 3-4 more years for EJ to reach the level of those guys? I know I am not. If he fails this year, IMO it's time to learn from the bench behind a proven QB for a couple of years. I like the guy and hope he succeeds but if his ceiling falls somewhere between Todd Collins (another robot who eventually turned into a very capable NFL reserve QB) and Phil Simms.......then I wouldn't wait that long for that. The NFL caters to natural passers of the football. Game managers like Alex Smith put up bigger numbers nowadays because every one does. But they are outclassed by guys like Aaron Rodgers and the currently glued and taped together version of Peyton Manning...who would have been physically unable to take the abuse of the Simms era. So IMO, you are best served to always be pursuing THAT kind of QB. 9) What people need to remember with Henderson is that if he pans out, he is found money. If he turned into a top 5 LT in the NFL....a healthy Cordy Glenn at #10-12 OT in the NFL is worth more because he has shown to some extent that he can be trusted. If Henderson pans out IMO it will be a far bigger deal than Peters. Peters actually looked like a first round talent heading into the draft and wasn't a complete hot mess like Henderson. Henderson basically nearly worked his way out of the draft altogether with poor preparation in the draft process on top of a thoroughly lackluster career at his actual position. I don't want to get too far ahead but people should keep in mind that if he makes it he will A)want to get paid in a couple years and B)he will have earned it and will not owe the Bills anything for taking a shot on him because just like Peters somebody was going to do it. He will earn what he gets.
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