34-78-83 Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 just one more thought ( again continue the wonderful rants ). If you have a three step drop called on a play and the 1st read is open (open meaning anything from wide-open to "in good position in single coverage"), you throw it to the 1st read. as long as the arm motion and follow through are high enough, you don't blame your Qb for getting the ball tipped at the line there. So yeah, other than the mis-read LB he didn't see on the near-pick play, and looking back again I didn't see any bad throws or "not going through his progressions". Throw to Williams in end zone was good, Deep throw to Watkins was where it was supposed to be, conversion to Lee Smith was nice. Not sure where all these bad throws and reads were. This is neither a post in support of or bashing EJ.Just real football stuff.
Dorkington Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) just one more thought ( again continue the wonderful rants ). If you have a three step drop called on a play and the 1st read is open (open meaning anything from wide-open to "in good position in single coverage"), you throw it to the 1st read. as long as the arm motion and follow through are high enough, you don't blame your Qb for getting the ball tipped at the line there. So yeah, other than the mis-read LB he didn't see on the near-pick play, and looking back again I didn't see any bad throws or "not going through his progressions". Throw to Williams in end zone was good, Deep throw to Watkins was where it was supposed to be, conversion to Lee Smith was nice. Not sure where all these bad throws and reads were. This is neither a post in support of or bashing EJ.Just real football stuff. This is basically how I feel. The batted balls weren't a stare down the receiver thing, I think he just needs to adjust for defensive windows, and I think the OL for it's part, needs to keep engagement with the DL. Also, gotta give credit where credit is due... when our guys swat the ball, we praise our players. But when the opposing team does it, our QB sucks. Which is it? Edited August 4, 2014 by Dorkington
thebandit27 Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 just one more thought ( again continue the wonderful rants ). If you have a three step drop called on a play and the 1st read is open (open meaning anything from wide-open to "in good position in single coverage"), you throw it to the 1st read. as long as the arm motion and follow through are high enough, you don't blame your Qb for getting the ball tipped at the line there. So yeah, other than the mis-read LB he didn't see on the near-pick play, and looking back again I didn't see any bad throws or "not going through his progressions". Throw to Williams in end zone was good, Deep throw to Watkins was where it was supposed to be, conversion to Lee Smith was nice. Not sure where all these bad throws and reads were. This is neither a post in support of or bashing EJ.Just real football stuff. Aaaaand cut! Nice post.
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 To tack on to Hplarrm's sentiment, I think fans are really having a problem with looking at successful outliers as the only models of success, where there are far more examples of players developing into above-average starters or better in this league, over a few seasons. That's all magnified at the QB position, of course.
eball Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Anyone else glad we only have four days until the next game? Geez Louise.
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Here's how Eli looked in comparison Championship caliber body language.
The Big Cat Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Spoken like a guy that has an agenda. EJ threw the ball right where it was supposed to be...don't suppose you heard Brian Billick in the post game talking about how Sammy pinned himself to the sideline and took away his chance to make the play on the ball? I love the duality of chastising EJ for throwing the ball deep (when many criticized him for checking down too often last year) while also getting on him for "staring down" a 3-step drop (you realize that you're absolutely, unabashedly incorrect about that, right? It's a 3-step drop and deep throw...if Sammy gets to the ball it's a TD). I also love the hyperbole of "10 yards too far" when the ball landed about 1 stride in front of Watkins. Chill out...the guy threw 7 passes and a few got batted down. Yes, that play was the real bad one. Should've been picked. The last throw was definitely a bad one. He stared him down, but again, I think he really wanted to get some action to his shiny new toy. For his sake, for Sammy's sake, for the sake of their future chemistry and not least of all, because it's what we fans wanted to see the day after the greatest QB/WR combo in franchise history took center stage. I'm sure these two youngsters are very eager to start chipping away at the Kelly/Reed legacy! Here's how Eli looked in comparison Championship caliber body language. x 2
NoSaint Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 just one more thought ( again continue the wonderful rants ). If you have a three step drop called on a play and the 1st read is open (open meaning anything from wide-open to "in good position in single coverage"), you throw it to the 1st read. as long as the arm motion and follow through are high enough, you don't blame your Qb for getting the ball tipped at the line there. So yeah, other than the mis-read LB he didn't see on the near-pick play, and looking back again I didn't see any bad throws or "not going through his progressions". Throw to Williams in end zone was good, Deep throw to Watkins was where it was supposed to be, conversion to Lee Smith was nice. Not sure where all these bad throws and reads were. This is neither a post in support of or bashing EJ.Just real football stuff. really, they may have strongly underscored to EJ that they REALLY wanted him to go after a specific throw, or read, or timing, even if it felt off -- just so they could go back and review "see, even though you werent comfortable it was the thing to do" or "we wanted to give sammy a shot to fight down the sideline with an NFL CB." its preseason, so the goal isnt always winning games as much as winning small battles and getting chances to evaluate. the sammy throw being an example where he mightve been nudged extra to let it fly even if hes a bit bottled up out there, and lets see what he can do.
John from Riverside Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 OK...regarding the Sammy Watkins play Go back and take a look at it on Tivo...Sammy got tired up with the corner and that altered his route and his timing to the spot EJ through a pass that was where the receiver was supposed to be on the route the pass was NOT out of bounds which was the problem everyone was bitching about last year....it was right down the sideline and catchable if the reciever is where he is supposed to be I would liked to have seen more attempts....but EJ HAD SEVEN PASSES ON THE NIGHT
thebandit27 Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 The last throw was definitely a bad one. He stared him down, but again, I think he really wanted to get some action to his shiny new toy. For his sake, for Sammy's sake, for the sake of their future chemistry and not least of all, because it's what we fans wanted to see the day after the greatest QB/WR combo in franchise history took center stage. I'm sure these two youngsters are very eager to start chipping away at the Kelly/Reed legacy! That may be the case Large Feline...for me, I'd still rather he exercise discretion and not make the bad throw (although as you rightly point out, the coach may have told him "throw it there" and he just listened).
NewEra Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 you got it Cat. In fact, just this morning I was realizing while reading this thread that I may have to take a few week break from TBD until were at least halfway through the pre season. These topics and posts are ridiculous. It's the 1st pre season game people. We've had like 10 practices. EJ has been on the field in actual games for about 15-20 plays. HOLY F#%K!!! Get a grip everyone. The sky is not falling.
HeHateMe Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Not going to crucify EJ for last night's performance but I'm still waiting to see that intermediate pass to a WR or TE down the field. Some posters complain he does throw the deep ball enough. I completely disagree with this, he throws the deep ball all of the time. What he doesn't do is throw the pass you have to make 4-5 times a game to setup scores. The 15-25 pass plays that get the defense scrambling on their heels. He didn't do this last year enough and I didn't see even an attempt last night. It seem's it is either a 7 yard check down or a 35 yard prayer that he throws. Really nothing in between. This tells me in just isn't comfortable yet with either what he sees or in his own ability.
Captain Caveman Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Championship caliber body language. This is getting turned into a who farted poster, we'll need to make room in the space.
DC Greg Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Not going to put too much into the HOF game. Hopefully just shaking off some rust and getting a feel for the pace of the game again. Man was that last throw bad though. Right into the linebacker's hands. He was right in the lane. That was a poor, poor read and easily could have gone the other way for 6. Hope to not see more of that.
RuntheDamnBall Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 This is getting turned into a who farted poster, we'll need to make room in the space. I know a local frame shop.
BackInDaDay Posted August 4, 2014 Author Posted August 4, 2014 for the record, i'm a big EJ supporter.. i believe he has all of the physical tools to succeed, and from all accounts - his attitude and work ethic are fantastic. my concern is that his football instincts may have been dulled by all the time he's had to get coached up, without a chance to compete. that's why i suggested that Hackett should get him 'physically involved' asap - roll him out, send in an option, let him move around a bit. we all knew he was a project, but did anyone believe he would be groomed as strictly a pocket passer? let him play his game, and then see what he's retained from all the coaching. there's a chance they might be pleasantly surprised,
thebandit27 Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 for the record, i'm a big EJ supporter.. i believe he has all of the physical tools to succeed, and from all accounts - his attitude and work ethic are fantastic. my concern is that his football instincts may have been dulled by all the time he's had to get coached up, without a chance to compete. that's why i suggested that Hackett should get him 'physically involved' asap - roll him out, send in an option, let him move around a bit. we all knew he was a project, but did anyone believe he would be groomed as strictly a pocket passer? let him play his game, and then see what he's retained from all the coaching. there's a chance they might be pleasantly surprised, Dude, your OP is the least of anyone's issues in this thread. You made points that were salient, relevant, and worth discussing...I personally find your clarification unnecessary, but appreciate it nevertheless.
All_Pro_Bills Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Not going to crucify EJ for last night's performance but I'm still waiting to see that intermediate pass to a WR or TE down the field. Some posters complain he does throw the deep ball enough. I completely disagree with this, he throws the deep ball all of the time. What he doesn't do is throw the pass you have to make 4-5 times a game to setup scores. The 15-25 pass plays that get the defense scrambling on their heels. He didn't do this last year enough and I didn't see even an attempt last night. It seem's it is either a 7 yard check down or a 35 yard prayer that he throws. Really nothing in between. This tells me in just isn't comfortable yet with either what he sees or in his own ability. I think patience is needed here for an evaluation of the book of work on EJ for the entire pre-season but we're a long way from being able to 'check off' the QB position from the things to worry about list. Nothing i saw last night gave me the warm and fuzzy feeling that EJ has the 'it' the good/great quarterbacks have.
Hplarrm Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 The comments folks are making on the particular downfield fly to Watkins simply features commentators making assumptions they cannot know. Such as: 1. Was there an overarching strategic choice the O braintrust made to air it out to without concern about whether it was caught or not to establish for opponents we would go long? 2. Watkins has already talked about the importance in his game of varying his first steps and releases in order to not show a standard release style to what extent was he working on release and pattern variables. 3. To what extent are the Bills O braintrust and/or players not showing what they plan to in regular season by NOT performing as they plan to in regular season. 4. A zillion other variables you either do not wanna show in pre-season or alternately they are efforts you are overfocusing on. The end result is that sure everything should be open to analysis but drawing any overarching conclusions on what any one particular play is just foolish!
Recommended Posts