K-9 Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 dude....im not digging up your threads. We are having a conversation now. If you dont feel like restating it thats ok. I feel that short of using a draft pick on another QB (and then taking the time to groom THAT QB) there was nothing even romotely close to being a definate solution at QB The bills decided to biuld the team up around EJ manuel......we are stacked on OL, WR, and RB......we have depth on top of depth. And they are bringing along their 1st round QB. If he falls on his face this year.....it will be time to make a change. I dont think he is going to. Depends on the nature of how he falls on his face. Even incremental improvement over last year will be enough to secure a 3rd season of development, imo. He's gonna get his thousand reps. This micro-analysis of his every attempt at camp needs to be ignored. Each practice rep is broken down in the film room and reviewed. It's one thing to say he sucked and quite another to say he sucked in context. GO BILLS!!!
GG Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 It's now irrelevant where he was drafted. What matters now is performance. If EJ came out this year, I agree with Casserly that it's doubtful he gets drafted in the first round and is probably the #5 QB taken. But the Bills are stuck with him for this year, and that's understandable. What's not understandable is there's no plan B if he doesn't pan out because there's no 1st round pick next year. So instead of taking another developmental QB in mid rounds, who would give the team another option for 2015, we're stuck with the same guys who finished the year here. This has been discussed ad nauseum, and I'm surprised you need to see it repeated. Again.
john Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 simple question was asked. why not a simple answer given? just an outsider here but you sound like a tool who can't back up his statements.
DallasMac Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 I was annoyed by giving up a first next year for the same reason. Then I looked at the qbs that will likely enter and there really aren't any that would be considered sure things. Mariota still needs to work on accuracy and the same with Hundtley and Miller. Maybe these guys take the next step this year though.
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 It's now irrelevant where he was drafted. What matters now is performance. If EJ came out this year, I agree with Casserly that it's doubtful he gets drafted in the first round and is probably the #5 QB taken. But the Bills are stuck with him for this year, and that's understandable. What's not understandable is there's no plan B if he doesn't pan out because there's no 1st round pick next year. So instead of taking another developmental QB in mid rounds, who would give the team another option for 2015, we're stuck with the same guys who finished the year here. This has been discussed ad nauseum, and I'm surprised you need to see it repeated. Again. It has been repeated at nauseum....didnt realize this was your stance. My response.... I really dont care what Casserly says and he quite often is not right. There has also been a lot of debate on where EJ would have gone in this draft because of the physical attributes and measurables of EJ Manuel......5th QB taken? HIGHLY debatable. But let say for a minute that they DID take a mid round QB.....this sounds an aweful lot like what we did with that 3rd round guy we took a while back.....which wouldnt just be more of the same? You talk about not doing the same thing we have been doing the past 15 years but then your solution is to do the same thing we have been doing the last 15 years...... I dont know that EJ Manuel is the answer.......I do know that after ONE season in which he didnt even play the year we dont know.
mannc Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 I was annoyed by giving up a first next year for the same reason. Then I looked at the qbs that will likely enter and there really aren't any that would be considered sure things. Mariota still needs to work on accuracy and the same with Hundtley and Miller. Maybe these guys take the next step this year though. Not to change the subject, but how accurate do you expect Mariota to be? 63.5% completion percentage (68% in 2012), 31 TDs and 4 interceptions isn't accurate enough? To answer John's question, many of us would have liked to see the Bills use a mid to late round pick this year on a QB to come in and back up EJ or, God forbid, compete with him.
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Not to change the subject, but how accurate do you expect Mariota to be? 63.5% completion percentage (68% in 2012), 31 TDs and 4 interceptions isn't accurate enough? To answer John's question, many of us would have liked to see the Bills use a mid to late round pick this year on a QB to come in and back up EJ or, God forbid, compete with him. That is a fair enough answer.......and I actually wasnt against drafting a mid round QB......although there has been a lot of stats backing up that you dont find legit franchise QB's in the middle rounds. If they are that good....they would be drafted in the 1st round because that elusive franchise QB is SO HARD to find. I just think the bills had a philosophy and followed it......biuld up the team around the rook and hope the rook continues to mature and improve his game. The physical everything you look for is all there........consistancy is what is needed
GG Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 simple question was asked. why not a simple answer given? just an outsider here but you sound like a tool who can't back up his statements. If you're referring to me, the same thing has been said over and over in this thread and other threads. Note that this particular topic was related to a tangent of what would happen when the new owner comes in and cleans house. There is really only one glaring hole on this roster, and it happens to be the most important one. Whaley has done a decent job with most everything. Except he's playing another high risk game with the most important position. It bit him last year, and he left no room for error this year or next.
DallasMac Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Not to change the subject, but how accurate do you expect Mariota to be? 63.5% completion percentage (68% in 2012), 31 TDs and 4 interceptions isn't accurate enough? To answer John's question, many of us would have liked to see the Bills use a mid to late round pick this year on a QB to come in and back up EJ or, God forbid, compete with him. I've read a cpl things questioning his accuracy but apparently it's more his inaccuracy in the beginning of games. Thanks for posting that though because it definitely is better than I thought it was. Still not a Mariota fan though.
FloridaSnow Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 That is a fair enough answer.......and I actually wasnt against drafting a mid round QB......although there has been a lot of stats backing up that you dont find legit franchise QB's in the middle rounds. If they are that good....they would be drafted in the 1st round because that elusive franchise QB is SO HARD to find. I just think the bills had a philosophy and followed it......biuld up the team around the rook and hope the rook continues to mature and improve his game. The physical everything you look for is all there........consistancy is what is needed FSU alum here. What is really disconcerting about Manuel is how little the book on him has changed since he took his first snap at FSU. He has always been a guy with lots of potential who just needs to find a way to put it all together. Maybe it happens this year (and I hope so, the guy is very easy to root for), but I've grown a bit numb to this argument.
Ramius Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 Great post! This is it in a nutshell. We all love the Bills and want them to win. We know they need a real QB to do that. We all want to see a new Jim Kelly--a player with skill, a fighter, and a born leader. When a young athlete has "it" in any sport, you know it. And it is obvious to everyone, including grandma who doesn't follow sports. EJ isn't that guy and lots of good intentions or well crafted debate in his support is not going to change that. As an aside, the front office and Marrone have foolishly hitched their wagon to EJ. They have placed all their eggs in his basket, and done a poor job at planning for an EJ failure contingency at QB. That, combined with new ownership probably in the form of Pegula, will seal their fate. For all you Marrone haters out there (I'm not one of them) hang in there. This iteration of Bills management and coaching will be gone soon enough when the EJ Project is declared a failure. Pegula has learned his lesson with the Sabres in terms of maintaining the status quo under his ownership. That didn't work. He won't make the same mistake twice. This whole crew will be gone (Brandon may remain in a pure marketing position; he's good at that) and hopefully we can then start to forget the last 15 years or so. Years ago, there was a 20+ page thread on a young QB that "looked the part" and was deemed to have "it." That QB was Matt Leinart.
John from Riverside Posted August 6, 2014 Posted August 6, 2014 If you're referring to me, the same thing has been said over and over in this thread and other threads. Note that this particular topic was related to a tangent of what would happen when the new owner comes in and cleans house. There is really only one glaring hole on this roster, and it happens to be the most important one. Whaley has done a decent job with most everything. Except he's playing another high risk game with the most important position. It bit him last year, and he left no room for error this year or next. He is playing the game because it is the best option.....QBs are a lot harder to find then other positions on the team....they need to be handled differently as well. He brought in a legit vet (out of what was available) in Kolb who when healthy showed he could run a team......then Kolb got hurt. I honestly dont believe EJ was the number 1 plan to start the year..... Then Kolb got hurt......and Manuel starts..... Now fast forward to year 2....you dont bring in a vet out of what is available and sit EJ......that train has left the station Years ago, there was a 20+ page thread on a young QB that "looked the part" and was deemed to have "it." That QB was Matt Leinart. Noodle arm FSU alum here. What is really disconcerting about Manuel is how little the book on him has changed since he took his first snap at FSU. He has always been a guy with lots of potential who just needs to find a way to put it all together. Maybe it happens this year (and I hope so, the guy is very easy to root for), but I've grown a bit numb to this argument. Tx It was a risk.....the bills were taking a chance that a QB with a high ceiling could improve. If EJ Manuel didnt at least have some warts coming out of college he would have been a top 3 pick........guys with his size, athletic ability, and arm are just not available.....christ did you see the deal the Bengals QB Dalton got? Dalton doesnt have HALF of EJ's ability.....but has mastered other parts of the QB position.
Beerball Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Folks....we gotta give EJ this season before making a evaluation It's funny, isn't it? The entire team from the FO on down to the ball boys, with the exception of the most important player, are in a win now situation. All in...isn't that the phrase we've heard used often? New ownership on the way...gotta have a winning season. Then why was the most important position on the field ignored? Why is the team, as it currently stands, ready to start the season with the same 3 QBs that they ended last (unsuccessful) season with? They upgraded (hopefully) the O-line. They upgraded WR (significantly?). They upgraded LB. They upgraded RB. Why in the name of all that is good and just are they starting this season with the same 3 QBs that ended last season?
You herd it hear last Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 It's funny, isn't it? The entire team from the FO on down to the ball boys, with the exception of the most important player, are in a win now situation. All in...isn't that the phrase we've heard used often? New ownership on the way...gotta have a winning season. Then why was the most important position on the field ignored? Why is the team, as it currently stands, ready to start the season with the same 3 QBs that they ended last (unsuccessful) season with? They upgraded (hopefully) the O-line. They upgraded WR (significantly?). They upgraded LB. They upgraded RB. Why in the name of all that is good and just are they starting this season with the same 3 QBs that ended last season? My guess is and will always be, they built the team up around the developing quarterbacks so that they WOULDN'T have to put the world on their shoulders to win every game. With that comes the chance (albeit not equal) that they will all totally flop or they will get what they needed in the first place. Now, anything above and beyond that, including our hopes of EJ being a superstar, is icing on the cake.
Beerball Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 What could they have done better? What QB out there would have been so much better that trigger should have been pulled? I answered this several pages back (& I think GG did too)...Smith.
FluffHead Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 FSU alum here. What is really disconcerting about Manuel is how little the book on him has changed since he took his first snap at FSU. He has always been a guy with lots of potential who just needs to find a way to put it all together. Maybe it happens this year (and I hope so, the guy is very easy to root for), but I've grown a bit numb to this argument. This is why I have been firmly in the anti Manuel camp. I've seen his whole career from freshman year to now and it's the same story over and over again. People who didn't watch him closely in college cite his good record and bowl game wins. Those teams won despite his slow starts and accuracy problems. Not a surprise they upgraded at Qb and won the national title the year he left.
saundena Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 This is why I have been firmly in the anti Manuel camp. I've seen his whole career from freshman year to now and it's the same story over and over again. People who didn't watch him closely in college cite his good record and bowl game wins. Those teams won despite his slow starts and accuracy problems. Not a surprise they upgraded at Qb and won the national title the year he left. Damping evidence. I agree. Hopefully he can change.
John from Riverside Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 I answered this several pages back (& I think GG did too)...Smith. Again a fair enough answer..... The problem with this is when you whittle that answer down to 1 player...how do we know that Smith firmly didnt want to come here....how do we know he didnt want to be with the new HC in Kansas City. Kevin Kolb was one of those perfect "bridge" guys because they wanted to draft a young QB.......they were better that Kolb could have least stay healthy for a while and they guessed wrong. This is why I have been firmly in the anti Manuel camp. I've seen his whole career from freshman year to now and it's the same story over and over again. People who didn't watch him closely in college cite his good record and bowl game wins. Those teams won despite his slow starts and accuracy problems. Not a surprise they upgraded at Qb and won the national title the year he left. And that qb that replaced him will probably be a 1st round overall pick the year he comes out....... You cannot draft in a vacuum. THe fact is he was a successful QB in college with all of the physical attributes. NFL talent evaluator probably thought.....we can fix this..... They are not wrong......YET
Reed83HOF Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 They did last year and he immediately got hurt twice before he could even turn on the machine.
zow2 Posted August 7, 2014 Posted August 7, 2014 Which group of receivers ya think Cam Newton would like to have? Panthers: Jericho Cotchery, Kelvin Benjamin, Tiquan Underwood, Marvin McNutt, Jason Avant Bills: Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Mike Williams, Marquise Goodwin, Chris Hogan (Easley/TJ/Elliott) My point is I think the Bills have given EJ some really nice weapons to work with. Cam Newton really does not have an explosive crew over there. It will be interesting to see how their passing numbers compare.
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