billybrew1 Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Washington has been selected to four Pro Bowls in his career and won a Super Bowl ring with the Patriots in Super Bowl XXXVIII. At 6'5" and more than 375 pounds in his prime, he has been described as “the prototypical [3-4] nose tackle of this era.”[1] His gargantuan frame earned him nicknames like "Mt. Washington" or "Washington Monument".[2] Also notable for his longevity, Washington was a starting nose tackle—one of the most physically demanding positions in football[1]—until the age of 39.[3] He was signed by the Buffalo Bills as an unrestricted free agent on February 24, 1995. Playing nose tackle, Washington lined up next to defensive end Bruce Smith in Buffalo's 3-4 defense. In his first season he posted 86 tackles in 16 regular season games and two post season ones. In his second season with the Bills he recorded career numbers with 130 tackles. In the 1997 season, he recorded 124 tackles and four sacks. He was also selected to his first Pro Bowl. The following season he was again selected to the Pro Bowl after finishing the year with 101 tackles and 4.5 sacks, which was a career high. In 1998, he again started in all 16 games and finished the season with 87 tackles. Washington was selected to do his third Pro Bowl in the 2000 season after recording 86 tackles and 2.5 sacks. 16 years, 236 career games, 693 combined tackles, 34.5 sacks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Washington To me Ted is the greatest Nose Tackle to play the game. What the stats don't show is how many double teams he took on and shoved past the line of scrimmage, freeing up Bruce, Brice, Biscuit and the rest to make sacks and tackles. Who could forget Bill Parcells gushing about how unmovable Ted was and how he would bet big money that he was closer to 380 than 325 and he specifically signed Kevin Mawea, one of the greatest centers, to "try" and control Mt. Washington. I couldn't find any highlights on him but we all know he manhandled his opponents. I agree with you 100%. I watched Ted intently, and I saw Mawea knock him back once. If you ever watched Mawea, he was one of the best centers of all-time. It is remarkable how Ted dominated him. Bruce Smith called Ted Washington the greatest run stopper of all-time and he kidding or exaggerating at all and I agree. Ted is in my top 10 Bills of all-time even though he is not a career Bill. A guy who really could beat double teams (not draw, beat) with some consistency. Ted was a, "cheat-player". Someone so good we could move a player to overload a side or double-team another player. Washington had both gaps for certain.Cheat players are very rare. Ted could also collapse a pocket for a crucial play. And I mean just cave it in on the snap. A great, great player. If we had Ted during Jim Kelly's hay-day we would have won superbowls. There is no doubt in my mind. Go Teddy! Go Bills!
jahbonas Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 I agree with you 100%. I watched Ted intently, and I saw Mawea knock him back once. If you ever watched Mawea, he was one of the best centers of all-time. It is remarkable how Ted dominated him. Bruce Smith called Ted Washington the greatest run stopper of all-time and he kidding or exaggerating at all and I agree. Ted is in my top 10 Bills of all-time even though he is not a career Bill. A guy who really could beat double teams (not draw, beat) with some consistency. Ted was a, "cheat-player". Someone so good we could move a player to overload a side or double-team another player. Washington had both gaps for certain.Cheat players are very rare. Ted could also collapse a pocket for a crucial play. And I mean just cave it in on the snap. A great, great player. If we had Ted during Jim Kelly's hay-day we would have won superbowls. There is no doubt in my mind. Go Teddy! Go Bills! Amen you are dead on !!
KD in CA Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 I think Ted Washington deserves serious consideration for the HOVG.
boyst Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Ted was a great player, but he was very good, not legendary as far as NFL terms go. In order to be a HOF'er you need a prolonged period of dominance. 4 years of pro-bowl caliber play is generally not enough to get one in. Ruben Brown stands a better chance, imo. Players like TW do not dominate for pro-longed periods because they do not put up the pretty stats other guys do... During Ted's era, you have to compare him to Kennedy, Sapp, and Randle who played DT as well, but were able to disrupt the passing game which created more appealing stats. Ted will be unappreciated because his job was to occupy blockers as opposed to getting tackles and sacks. Another disadvantage is that he will be perceived as one-dimensional in his game where as the previously mentioned DT's could stop the run or attack the QB. Kennedy was much better then Sapp and Randle. Randle was good but not what TW was. Sapp is much like Kyle Williams. Kyle Williams doesn't have the support behind him that Sapp did. Sapp is a byproduct of a much better unit, perhaps one of the best supporting units in football in the last dozen years. I would start a team adding TW to my team much faster then I would any of them because TW doesn't create a liability to my defensive capabilities. He stops the run and stops the middle. I tend to agree with both these takes...Big Ted had to compete for Pro Bowls with players who had better stats, but no DT in his era was more effective at his job than Washington...He absolutely dominated the middle of the field in his prime... It is interesting also that SI named Teddy the best player ever Drafted at #25 overall (though surprisingly he did not have a lot of competition for that honor...The history of #25 overall is not great ...) That being said it's going to be awfully hard for Teddy to get in...I think though, if the votes came from only Centers, Guards, and RB's, Teddy would be a 1st ballot Hall Of Famer...I just don't see how anyone could be considered a better 3-4 NT than Washington was in his prime...And he had a pretty lengthy prime...If the HOF is simply about which players were the best at what they did...Teddy should be in it... Pretty stats make a big difference. Please stop it! Your HOF comments regarding Washington are even more zany than your lofty view of John Skelton. Being a homer is one thing but not being grounded to reality is cause to have someone from the mental health profession forcibly dress you in a straitjacket. Again, just stop it! I do agree with you but i hope this is an opportunity for people to realize the value TW.
ny33 Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Washington has been selected to four Pro Bowls in his career and won a Super Bowl ring with the Patriots in Super Bowl XXXVIII. At 6'5" and more than 375 pounds in his prime, he has been described as “the prototypical [3-4] nose tackle of this era.”[1] His gargantuan frame earned him nicknames like "Mt. Washington" or "Washington Monument".[2] Also notable for his longevity, Washington was a starting nose tackle—one of the most physically demanding positions in football[1]—until the age of 39.[3] He was signed by the Buffalo Bills as an unrestricted free agent on February 24, 1995. Playing nose tackle, Washington lined up next to defensive end Bruce Smith in Buffalo's 3-4 defense. In his first season he posted 86 tackles in 16 regular season games and two post season ones. In his second season with the Bills he recorded career numbers with 130 tackles. In the 1997 season, he recorded 124 tackles and four sacks. He was also selected to his first Pro Bowl. The following season he was again selected to the Pro Bowl after finishing the year with 101 tackles and 4.5 sacks, which was a career high. In 1998, he again started in all 16 games and finished the season with 87 tackles. Washington was selected to do his third Pro Bowl in the 2000 season after recording 86 tackles and 2.5 sacks. 16 years, 236 career games, 693 combined tackles, 34.5 sacks http://en.wikipedia..../Ted_Washington To me Ted is the greatest Nose Tackle to play the game. What the stats don't show is how many double teams he took on and shoved past the line of scrimmage, freeing up Bruce, Brice, Biscuit and the rest to make sacks and tackles. Who could forget Bill Parcells gushing about how unmovable Ted was and how he would bet big money that he was closer to 380 than 325 and he specifically signed Kevin Mawea, one of the greatest centers, to "try" and control Mt. Washington. I couldn't find any highlights on him but we all know he manhandled his opponents. This is plagiarism. Use double quotation marks around the text that isn't yours and single quotation marks for quotes within the text. Your post, as written, does not distinguish between what you pulled from Wikipedia and what you wrote yourself. Edited August 3, 2014 by ny33
BillsPride12 Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Players like TW do not dominate for pro-longed periods because they do not put up the pretty stats other guys do... Kennedy was much better then Sapp and Randle. Randle was good but not what TW was. Sapp is much like Kyle Williams. Kyle Williams doesn't have the support behind him that Sapp did. Sapp is a byproduct of a much better unit, perhaps one of the best supporting units in football in the last dozen years. I would start a team adding TW to my team much faster then I would any of them because TW doesn't create a liability to my defensive capabilities. He stops the run and stops the middle. Pretty stats make a big difference. I do agree with you but i hope this is an opportunity for people to realize the value TW. Your nuts on your Kyle Williams comparison to Warren Sapp. I dont even like the guy(Sapp that is) but he was absolutely dominant and played the game with a passion and desire to win and was a major part of the culture change in Tampa Bay, your out of your mind if you don't think he was HOF worthy
boyst Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Your nuts on your Kyle Williams comparison to Warren Sapp. I dont even like the guy(Sapp that is) but he was absolutely dominant and played the game with a passion and desire to win and was a major part of the culture change in Tampa Bay, your out of your mind if you don't think he was HOF worthy Your nuts on your Kyle Williams comparison to Warren Sapp. I dont even like the guy(Sapp that is) but he was absolutely dominant and played the game with a passion and desire to win and was a major part of the culture change in Tampa Bay, your out of your mind if you don't think he was HOF worthy you're
machine gun kelly Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 I take note of the two previous posts and apologize to BB. It was outside the bounds and the way I usually participate. He is entitled to his opinion without casting personal insults. Again, I sincerely appologize to the Barbarian. No problem big guy. I always have a lot of respect for a guy who can make an apology as it shows character. Besides BB is a tough dude. He can take it. as far as Washington, if you don't think he's HOF material, I can see your point. I loved Big Teddy, but don't know if the Hall will ever consider him a person who transcended the game, and changed it. Living in Tampa, I know down here they all think Simeon Rice, John Lynch, and Ronde Barber should be first ballot guys. I can see Barber and maybe Lynch, but Rice I doubt gets in. anyway, John and BB, have a nice Sunday guys. Enjoy the game tonight. I know I'm recording it. Your nuts on your Kyle Williams comparison to Warren Sapp. I dont even like the guy(Sapp that is) but he was absolutely dominant and played the game with a passion and desire to win and was a major part of the culture change in Tampa Bay, your out of your mind if you don't think he was HOF worthy Sapp is the biggest A-Hole I've ever met, but he did belong in the HOF. I watched all of his games and he penetrated like nothing I've ever seen from an interior lineman. He's the reason the cover 2 worked so well as Kiffen relied on interior pressure for that defense to work. As much as I'm a big fan of Kyle Williams, he does not disrupt the offense like Sapp used to do in the late 90's and early 2000's. That defense was up there with the Ravens and was more consistent than the Ravens for over 10 years. For 10 years straight they were a top 10 defense, 5 of them top 5, and two seasons rated the #1 defense in the NFL. I agree with you 100%. I watched Ted intently, and I saw Mawea knock him back once. If you ever watched Mawea, he was one of the best centers of all-time. It is remarkable how Ted dominated him. Bruce Smith called Ted Washington the greatest run stopper of all-time and he kidding or exaggerating at all and I agree. Ted is in my top 10 Bills of all-time even though he is not a career Bill. A guy who really could beat double teams (not draw, beat) with some consistency. Ted was a, "cheat-player". Someone so good we could move a player to overload a side or double-team another player. Washington had both gaps for certain.Cheat players are very rare. Ted could also collapse a pocket for a crucial play. And I mean just cave it in on the snap. A great, great player. If we had Ted during Jim Kelly's hay-day we would have won superbowls. There is no doubt in my mind. Go Teddy! Go Bills! Excellent points. I couldn't stand Jeff Wright, and thought at the time they should have kept Smerlas as he was an awesome run stuffer. Big Ted would have probably put us over the top in SB as no one could be able to run on us, placing even more pressure in the pass making Bruce pin his ears back. I wonder how many sacks he would've had if he had Big Ted next to him.
maddenboy Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 What are you talking about? entitlement? Ted is the best NT ever, period. I hate to say it, but I would take Wilfork over TW. Only because I see him as more of a leader. Close call though. But the point is, there are guys out there that make it a discussion.
Prickly Pete Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) I hate to say it, but I would take Wilfork over TW. Only because I see him as more of a leader. Close call though. But the point is, there are guys out there that make it a discussion. There are 32 teams. If you are say, a Minnesota Vikings fan, you're whining about Anthony Carter, Matt Birk, Chuck Foreman, Matt Blair, Jim Marshall.... It's ridiculous. Every team had some "very good" players. I think the Bills are fairly represented. Edited August 3, 2014 by HoF Watkins
Mark Vader Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 During Ted's era, you have to compare him to Kennedy, Sapp, and Randle who played DT as well, but were able to disrupt the passing game which created more appealing stats. Ted will be unappreciated because his job was to occupy blockers as opposed to getting tackles and sacks. Another disadvantage is that he will be perceived as one-dimensional in his game where as the previously mentioned DT's could stop the run or attack the QB. I love Ted Washington, but I don't see him as a Hall of Fame player. Honestly, I'm still puzzled that Kennedy & Randle are in the Hall, and honestly, Sapp could have waited longer. Kennedy was a disruptive player, but I just don't see him as one of the greatest. Randle was good, but as time wore on, his game went downhill fast. Sapp was a great Buccaneer, but he mailed in his career as a Raider.
Rico Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 (edited) Ted had a pretty pedestrian beginning to his NFL career with the 49ers... but he did finally develop into a very good to great player with the Bills, and he sure did play at a high level for a very long time. If DL-men like Fred friggin' Dean & Cortez Kennedy can make it into the HOF, then Ted can too, he was better than either of them. If it ever happens, I think it'll end up being a pretty long wait though. Edited August 3, 2014 by Rico
Captain Hindsight Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 The only other Bill I think has a shot is Tasker.
jahbonas Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 Slow down ahole its a message board - not a college thesis
Mark Vader Posted August 3, 2014 Posted August 3, 2014 The only other Bill I think has a shot is Tasker. I'd add Ruben Brown to the mix.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted August 4, 2014 Author Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) Bills defense v. the run (YPA) during teds tenure: 95 7 96 1 97 6 98 15 (5th in yards) 99 3 00 4 01 24 (after departure) Chicago in 00 v run (before ted): 19 yards, 10 YPA Chicago in 01 with Ted: 2 yards, 4 YPA In 02 (Ted injured) 26 yards, 15 YPA. NWE 2002 v run before Ted: 31 yards 29 YPA With Ted (at 35) in 03: 4 yards 6 YPA. I have not looked at the Ted effect in his early career. I take note of the two previous posts and apologize to BB. It was outside the bounds and the way I usually participate. He is entitled to his opinion without casting personal insults. Again, I sincerely appologize to the Barbarian. Thanks I agree with you 100%. I watched Ted intently, and I saw Mawea knock him back once. If you ever watched Mawea, he was one of the best centers of all-time. It is remarkable how Ted dominated him. Bruce Smith called Ted Washington the greatest run stopper of all-time and he kidding or exaggerating at all and I agree. Ted is in my top 10 Bills of all-time even though he is not a career Bill. A guy who really could beat double teams (not draw, beat) with some consistency. Ted was a, "cheat-player". Someone so good we could move a player to overload a side or double-team another player. Washington had both gaps for certain.Cheat players are very rare. Ted could also collapse a pocket for a crucial play. And I mean just cave it in on the snap. A great, great player. If we had Ted during Jim Kelly's hay-day we would have won superbowls. There is no doubt in my mind. Go Teddy! Go Bills! :worthy: This is plagiarism. Use double quotation marks around the text that isn't yours and single quotation marks for quotes within the text. Your post, as written, does not distinguish between what you pulled from Wikipedia and what you wrote yourself. sorry bro but I thought the wiki link made it obvious. Edited August 4, 2014 by Buffalo Barbarian
Offside Number 76 Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure I agree that he was even the best Bills NT. They played in different eras, but I would say Smerlas was at least as dominant in his era. Except he was offsides. A LOT. And was penalized. A LOT. If there's a Bill who deserves in and who is not in, it's Hull. Edited August 4, 2014 by Offsides Number 76
justnzane Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Except he was offsides. A LOT. And was penalized. A LOT. If there's a Bill who deserves in and who is not in, it's Hull. What screws Hull over is that he stopped going to Pro Bowls once Bruce Mathews got moved inside. 3 Pro Bowls won't look favorably to voters.
Offside Number 76 Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 What screws Hull over is that he stopped going to Pro Bowls once Bruce Mathews got moved inside. 3 Pro Bowls won't look favorably to voters. Oh, I don't think for a second that he'll actually make it.
HoodooOperator Posted August 4, 2014 Posted August 4, 2014 Forget about Tank; Kent Hull was a dominant player at his position. If any other Bill goes in, it needs to be him.
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