Kirby Jackson Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Does Graham do anything better than Hogan other than run faster? I would say no. Maybe not, but these guys aren't playing more than a handful of snaps a game. Graham's one discernible skill (speed) can make a bigger impact on a game than Hogan's.
Tyrod's Tailor Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Maybe not, but these guys aren't playing more than a handful of snaps a game. Graham's one discernible skill (speed) can make a bigger impact on a game than Hogan's. What about special teams?
Kirby Jackson Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 That is true . But Chris Hogan is not a reasonable comparison as to what he may offer to the Bills. Personally i would rather have the ball caught over a PI every single day . Thats just the QB in me . So when do you choose to throw to Goodwin over Graham over Watkins over Williams . Cannot Goodwin get the PI as Easley as Graham ? And have a higher confidence level from the coaches and EJ in such hope . Why wouldn't someone hold Sammy or Mike even. The threat is only real when its an actual threat . Graham lost that i think . Not a Graham hater but i bet he did not help any Bills QBs confidence with some of his drops last year. Not sure that I am following you? I am saying that as a 5th or 6th guy they are looking at MAYBE 5-8 snaps a game. Who can impact a game more in those 5-8 snaps? What about special teams? Neither are standouts, that is where Easley comes into play. The Bills were so bad in kick coverage last year that I think that Easley has to have a spot. He can help the team there.
3rdand12 Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 In a vacuum they matter little but throwing out what you see his best case scenario helps us compare apples to apples some. Just saying "yea he has potential" but is that potential as a 6 for a year or do you see him as a guy that could be a longterm #3.... Throwing out stats as framework helps define those expectations Fair enough ! I have no idea his upside. Isn't he still developing ? And he has yet to prove it in the NFL in my opinion . Lets throw a " five " out there . Is he replaceable or can be upgraded ? hell yes. But it seems he has taken himself to task over last season and by all reports truly has improved at a number of key markers .
LB3 Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Not sure that I am following you? I am saying that as a 5th or 6th guy they are looking at MAYBE 5-8 snaps a game. Who can impact a game more in those 5-8 snaps? This is where my hesitation comes in. In those 5-8 snaps, Hogan is more likely to move the sticks on a 3rd down conversion than Graham. Graham is more likely to crush momentum with a drop than Hogan. I think the way Graham could possibly negatively effect the game cancels out any possible positive contributions. Edited August 1, 2014 by KikoSeeBallKikoGetBall
Tyrod's Tailor Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Neither are standouts, that is where Easley comes into play. The Bills were so bad in kick coverage last year that I think that Easley has to have a spot. He can help the team there. gotcha. agreed that Easley needs to be on the roster. STs arguably cost us 3 games last year.
3rdand12 Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 (edited) Not sure that I am following you? I am saying that as a 5th or 6th guy they are looking at MAYBE 5-8 snaps a game. Who can impact a game more in those 5-8 snaps? Neither are standouts, that is where Easley comes into play. The Bills were so bad in kick coverage last year that I think that Easley has to have a spot. He can help the team there. Actually catch the ball and move the chains. And you are assuming the offense play calling already : )I see you are considering that TJ might have equal value in snap count. I would line up a five wide or a 4 and a spiller with what we have now gladly. excluding TJ. Do you seriously consider the PI a value KirbyJackson. What happens if we ever play seattle ? : ) Edited August 1, 2014 by 3rdand12
Matt in KC Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Going into this year's Training Camp I thought Hogan = JAG (just a guy), but reading today's reports I realized my opinion was changing. I've gone from giving him 25-30% chance of making the team (barring injury) to 80-90%. Teams need possession receivers. I don't expect him to have too many catches, or yards, but he might well get some critical first downs for us. I have not gone to camp, but have heard more instances of TJ dropping a ball than doing something positive. My shift for Hogan was paired with me feeling like TJ might not make the team after all. Is Hogan doing anything on Special Teams?
NoSaint Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Fair enough ! I have no idea his upside. Isn't he still developing ? And he has yet to prove it in the NFL in my opinion . Lets throw a " five " out there . Is he replaceable or can be upgraded ? hell yes. But it seems he has taken himself to task over last season and by all reports truly has improved at a number of key markers . Which markers? Is anyone confident that he's progressed or is he just a practice field hero so reports in August are more glowing than December every year?
3rdand12 Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 gotcha. agreed that Easley needs to be on the roster. STs arguably cost us 3 games last year. I dont agree. Bills need a guy who can cathc and be ST standout. Easley might be that guy thi=ough . he has caught some passes in camp and looked decent from what i have read here
Kirby Jackson Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 This is where my hesitation comes in. In those 5-8 snaps, Hogan is more likely to move the sticks on a 3rd down conversion than Graham. Graham is more likely to crush momentum with a drop than Hogan. I think the way Graham could possibly negatively affect the game cancels out any possible positive contributions. Not to play devil's advocate but Hogan actually killed a couple of drives on 3rd down last year in his limited sample size. They have plenty of guys now that can get to the sticks on 3rd and 6. I would never keep the guy that can make a 6 yard play over the guy that can make the 66 yard play (especially if we are talking about only a few snaps a game). In addition, if it is an important 3rd down situation AND for some reason Hogan is on the field what number read is he? He can't be more than about the 4th option at that point. He's a good story and a star in shorts but I just don't see how he impacts a game in any manner. Actually catch the ball and move the chains. And you are assuming the offense play calling already : ) I see you are considering that TJ might have equal value in snap count. I would line up a five wide or a 4 and a spiller with what we have now gladly. excluding TJ. Do you seriously consider the PI a value KirbyJackson. What happens if we ever play seattle ? : ) addresed your point above Do I consider a 40 yard PI a valuable play?!? Yes, yes I do
LB3 Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Not to play devil's advocate but Hogan actually killed a couple of drives on 3rd down last year in his limited sample size. They have plenty of guys now that can get to the sticks on 3rd and 6. I would never keep the guy that can make a 6 yard play over the guy that can make the 66 yard play (especially if we are talking about only a few snaps a game). In addition, if it is an important 3rd down situation AND for some reason Hogan is on the field what number read is he? He can't be more than about the 4th option at that point. He's a good story and a star in shorts but I just don't see how he impacts a game in any manner. That's fair. It's situations like these where I wish Graham had Easley's special teams ability.
3rdand12 Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Which markers? Is anyone confident that he's progressed or is he just a practice field hero so reports in August are more glowing than December every year? Ha . now you are just funning with me. Of course there is the PC Training Camp spin and manipulation by the Bills. I think you are regurgitating last years camp and are a bit close minded though. Good evening N S. i hope to pick this up again at later date good sir. i think KSBKGB has a point to take notice of
NoSaint Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 This is where my hesitation comes in. In those 5-8 snaps, Hogan is more likely to move the sticks on a 3rd down conversion than Graham. Graham is more likely to crush momentum with a drop than Hogan. I think the way Graham could possibly negatively effect the game cancels out any possible positive contributions. One would think tj never made a play and hogans never dropped a ball ever reading the board lately.
Kirby Jackson Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 That's fair. It's situations like these where I wish Graham had Easley's special teams ability. Agree, I am not saying that Graham is great (or even good). All that I am saying is that if each guy is going to play 5-8 snaps (or whatever) a game TJ can have a bigger impact. If he makes 5-6 big plays in the season he has more value IMO. If they are playing more snaps than that this team is in trouble anyways.
3rdand12 Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Not to play devil's advocate but Hogan actually killed a couple of drives on 3rd down last year in his limited sample size. They have plenty of guys now that can get to the sticks on 3rd and 6. I would never keep the guy that can make a 6 yard play over the guy that can make the 66 yard play (especially if we are talking about only a few snaps a game). In addition, if it is an important 3rd down situation AND for some reason Hogan is on the field what number read is he? He can't be more than about the 4th option at that point. He's a good story and a star in shorts but I just don't see how he impacts a game in any manner. addresed your point above Do I consider a 40 yard PI a valuable play?!? Yes, yes I do well i dont But i will take another teams error anytime they make one, If we won on a penalty i would think less of it. thats just me
NoSaint Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Ha . now you are just funning with me. Of course there is the PC Training Camp spin and manipulation by the Bills. I think you are regurgitating last years camp and are a bit close minded though. Good evening N S. i hope to pick this up again at later date good sir. i think KSBKGB has a point to take notice of I'm perhaps being a bit over the top but genuinely I'm curious what the change from last August to this August is. I'm sure there's been some natural growth but what constitutes a major jump that many have cited? I'm genuinely curious if it's just getting back to the practice field or if my expectations are out of line with something new and previously unseen that's emerging in his skillset
3rdand12 Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 One would think tj never made a play and hogans never dropped a ball ever reading the board lately. c'mon man. why cant we have enthusiasm for a hard working man who has improved his craft ? okay soory evening all
Kirby Jackson Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 well i dont But i will take another teams error anytime they make one, If we won on a penalty i would think less of it. thats just me So you would rather not move the football 40 yards on one play?!?!?!?!?
Kelly the Dog Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Does Graham do anything better than Hogan other than run faster? I would say no. Hogan is supposed to be always open, but in actual regular season games, Graham was always open and Hogan was conspicuously not. Plus he dropped some balls. I sincerely worry about Hogan as a great practice player but not a Sunday player. Graham has proven, without question, that he can consistently beat NFL DBs when real bullets are flying. Hogan has never really proven that. Granted, Graham may simply not have the hands to play a real role in the NFL. But right now, he does something significant, and significantly better than Hogan, and that is get open on short, medium, and deep passes.
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