Doc Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 I know you know that they sometimes say dumb stuff for attention on those shows. Was it a credible group? That's open for debate, but it was Fox Sports Radio's national morning sports guys Andy Furman and Mike North. It's their job to know what they're talking about and they have fact-checkers, and again I couldn't find anything on the footage inside the elevator.
JohnC Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 That's open for debate, but it was Fox Sports Radio's national morning sports guys Andy Furman and Mike North. It's their job to know what they're talking about and they have fact-checkers, and again I couldn't find anything on the footage inside the elevator. Of course there is footage of what happened in the elevator just as there was footage inside of the elevator during the Jay Z and Beyonze's sister exchange. The difference is that a staff person didn't sell the inside elevator footage for money. The employee was fired. In the Ray Rice situatiion the tape was given to the NFL and police authorities who investigated the case. When you use sports radio personalities as your source you are skating on thin ice. Fact checking isn't as important to them as spewing out interesting storylines. Deadspin: "20 hours ago - 15, when he allegedly knocked then-fiancée Janay Palmer unconscious in an Atlantic City casino elevator. ... No footage of the fight itself was made public; from various reports, ... We know that NFL got its hands on the full elevator tape. .... It would explain why the video of the two fighting inside the elevator ..." Deadspin is for sure isn't the most reliable source but on this issue their claims are very plausible. What happened inside the elevator was a factor as to why the league office took a more lenient punishment position than most people felt was appropriate.
Doc Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Of course there is footage of what happened in the elevator just as there was footage inside of the elevator during the Jay Z and Beyonze's sister exchange. The difference is that a staff person didn't sell the inside elevator footage for money. The employee was fired. In the Ray Rice situatiion the tape was given to the NFL and police authorities who investigated the case. When you use sports radio personalities as your source you are skating on thin ice. Fact checking isn't as important to them as spewing out interesting storylines. Deadspin: "20 hours ago - 15, when he allegedly knocked then-fiancée Janay Palmer unconscious in an Atlantic City casino elevator. ... No footage of the fight itself was made public; from various reports, ... We know that NFL got its hands on the full elevator tape. .... It would explain why the video of the two fighting inside the elevator ..." Deadspin is for sure isn't the most reliable source but on this issue their claims are very plausible. What happened inside the elevator was a factor as to why the league office took a more lenient punishment position than most people felt was appropriate. I wasn't asking for the footage itself, just an acknowledgement of its existence. I guess the above would qualify.
Mr. WEO Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Yep, should have mentioned that as well. And let me add that when I heard the sports guys talking about it, they said that the NFL's excuse for only giving him 2 games was because no one knows what happened inside the elevator because the footage had somehow gone missing. Hence the reason for the search. But if there's a link talking about the footage, I'll stand corrected. This is completely untrue. Even a simple Google search would prove you are wrong, doc. The cops and the prosecutor saw the tape from inside the elevator. The NFL saw it. In fact, it is widely speculated that, far from your bizarre claim that the NFL only gave him 2 games because "nobody saw what happened in the elevator", the NFL only gave him 2 games because they saw his wife hitting him first or at least repeatedly and that his response was "provoked". Deadspin has extensively commented on the footage (http://deadspin.com/does-the-nfl-think-ray-rices-wife-deserved-it-1612138248), citing other sources in print as well. I suggest Googling "ray rice video tape elevator". Anyway, your belief that the NFL had the only copy of the tape (the original, from the cops) and destroyed it is...nuts.
Doc Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 This is completely untrue. Even a simple Google search would prove you are wrong, doc. The cops and the prosecutor saw the tape from inside the elevator. The NFL saw it. In fact, it is widely speculated that, far from your bizarre claim that the NFL only gave him 2 games because "nobody saw what happened in the elevator", the NFL only gave him 2 games because they saw his wife hitting him first or at least repeatedly and that his response was "provoked". Deadspin has extensively commented on the footage (http://deadspin.com/...d-it-1612138248), citing other sources in print as well. I suggest Googling "ray rice video tape elevator". Anyway, your belief that the NFL had the only copy of the tape (the original, from the cops) and destroyed it is...nuts. LOL! I don't know what's more "nuts": giving him only 2 games because they didn't have footage in the elevator, or that cold-cocking her and dragging her out of the elevator wasn't as bad because she hit him. No wonder there's a ****-storm around this ruling.
Mr. WEO Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 LOL! I don't know what's more "nuts": giving him only 2 games because they didn't have footage in the elevator, or that cold-cocking her and dragging her out of the elevator wasn't as bad because she hit him. No wonder there's a ****-storm around this ruling. Obviously the punishement is too soft. But you can't quote reporters or whatever they were who really have no idea what thye are talking about. This has been out there for a few days. If they had internet access, they wouldn't have misled you.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 Obviously the punishement is too soft. But you can't quote reporters or whatever they were who really have no idea what thye are talking about. This has been out there for a few days. If they had internet access, they wouldn't have misled you. I especially liked the part when Ray Rice said, "My wife can do no wrong." Which, of course, means that he knocked her out for no reason whatsoever. I have not seen any credible source saying the video in the elevator no longer exists although I haven't followed this extremely closely.
JohnC Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 I especially liked the part when Ray Rice said, "My wife can do no wrong." Which, of course, means that he knocked her out for no reason whatsoever. I have not seen any credible source saying the video in the elevator no longer exists although I haven't followed this extremely closely. If Goodell would have given a 4 game suspension this controversey would have been quickly disposed of. The irony is that his lenient punishment (my opinion) hurt Rice by outraging the public and the sports radio crowd thus keeping the issue intensely alive. I believe that Goodell was trying to be fair in his judgment/misjudgment of the incident. After watching the tape and after talking to Ray Rice and his future wife he determined that Rice was genuinely remorseful and learned from this incident. I have no doubt that the commissoner proprly did his due diligence but his punishment judgment was off the mark.
NoSaint Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 If Goodell would have given a 4 game suspension this controversey would have been quickly disposed of. The irony is that his lenient punishment (my opinion) hurt Rice by outraging the public and the sports radio crowd thus keeping the issue intensely alive. I believe that Goodell was trying to be fair in his judgment/misjudgment of the incident. After watching the tape and after talking to Ray Rice and his future wife he determined that Rice was genuinely remorseful and learned from this incident. I have no doubt that the commissoner proprly did his due diligence but his punishment judgment was off the mark. i think thats probably not far from the truth. i think they also have precedents in place based on past incidents that made it difficult to balance public outrage over the visual evidence, vs nonexistant punishments for incidents that were likely also ugly but less visible. the video going viral makes it a tough situation to discipline when your past actions have been pretty lax.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 i think thats probably not far from the truth. i think they also have precedents in place based on past incidents that made it difficult to balance public outrage over the visual evidence, vs nonexistant punishments for incidents that were likely also ugly but less visible. the video going viral makes it a tough situation to discipline when your past actions have been pretty lax. It seems to me it's a lot better and a lot wiser to say that the ones before may have gotten off easier, but this is the new precedent, rather than he gets off easy because of the precedent we set before.
Tyrod's Tailor Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 It seems to me it's a lot better and a lot wiser to say that the ones before may have gotten off easier, but this is the new precedent, rather than he gets off easy because of the precedent we set before. definitely. and if the NFLPA is upset about what you suggest, then let them file a grievance and explain to the public why wife beaters should get off easy.
Mr. WEO Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 If Goodell would have given a 4 game suspension this controversey would have been quickly disposed of. The irony is that his lenient punishment (my opinion) hurt Rice by outraging the public and the sports radio crowd thus keeping the issue intensely alive. I believe that Goodell was trying to be fair in his judgment/misjudgment of the incident. After watching the tape and after talking to Ray Rice and his future wife he determined that Rice was genuinely remorseful and learned from this incident. I have no doubt that the commissoner proprly did his due diligence but his punishment judgment was off the mark. I agree.
NoSaint Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 It seems to me it's a lot better and a lot wiser to say that the ones before may have gotten off easier, but this is the new precedent, rather than he gets off easy because of the precedent we set before. when you have a CBA in place with a union, that could open you up to some issues potentially i think. im not expert on all that, but im guessing even if rice claims he wouldnt have challenged the penalty that the nflpa would have been another party that roger had to try to keep happy in all this. id be curious to hear what actual number would be most peoples ideal for a domestic abuse charge? definitely. and if the NFLPA is upset about what you suggest, then let them file a grievance and explain to the public why wife beaters should get off easy. i hate to be "that guy" on this one, but its a fine line between fair punishment, and trying to prove who hates wife beaters the most. part of me hates the idea of "lets do whatever we want because we can demonize anyone that steps up to defend the guy." im not saying that you suggested a wildly unfair punishment or advocated anything out of line, simply that the last clip made me cringe a little.
PS 56 Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 It is such nonsense. Busted for weed of all things. Heck you can buy all you want in Colorado or Washington.
JohnC Posted August 1, 2014 Posted August 1, 2014 It seems to me it's a lot better and a lot wiser to say that the ones before may have gotten off easier, but this is the new precedent, rather than he gets off easy because of the precedent we set before. As I stated in the prior posts I believe that Goodell was too lenient in his punishment. However, as you smartly noted there were numerous preceding domestic abuse type of incidents where the punishments were even more lenient and inconsistently administered. It is very challenging to write rules and accompanying punishments for bad behavior when it is difficult to describe the level of theinfraction and the circumstances of the situation. Each case is to a certain extent unique. What Goodell usually does in disciplinary hearings is factor in the player's prior history. The commissioner looked at the totality of the situation, Rice's past history, the police report and his genuine remorsefullness. He also factored in his wife's behavior and her post incident response. Both parties appear to be sincere with their responses. This is a first time "criminal" offense for Ray Rice. He was suspended for two games and lost approximately $500,000 in salary. His public responses of remorsefullness appear to me to be genuine and not scripted by PR aides ala Dareus. What has plagued the NFL are the recidivists who have no regard how their unruly behavior affects the teams' and league's reputation. In my view Ray Rice does not fall in that ignominious category.
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