stowellez Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 That was a good article with some interesting insight I thought. I had to laugh when they both talked about EJ using his legs to be that "dual threat" QB. Shot to the knee anyone? I'd rather have EJ sit in the pocket and run simply to avoid pressure than be used in read option. Of course he was injured running from pressure wasn't he? In any event, some of the article is spot on but there was a ton of conjecture and vaguery about leadership and psyche. The closest thing they had to fact about EJ's play, then and now, was his inconsistency. But you don't need to be Nostradamus to predict inconsistency in a rookie QB. In my novice opinion EJ is capable of doing enough to not lose us games and allow the rest of the talent around him shine. And if not...what else is new?!? In all sincerity, I love being a Bills fan!
bowery4 Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 We needed a QB we traded back and drafted EJ and imo, he was the guy to take that year, and I would have felt the same in this years class. If the stars align and you have the number one pick and a QB with little risk is there, how lucky you are (pun intended). I'm glad we have EJ and I'm going to say something that's going to stir some things up with the more proficient "football" posters. I think praising articles like the OP linked are by and large idiotic. "When EJ's thinking footwork, mechanics go all to hell" - how the hell do you know Bud Elliot? Did you ask EJ, "hey on the errand throw were you concentrating on footwork? I thought so because that's when I notice your mechanics go to hell." Get out of here with all your conjecture. Footwork is such an overrated thing especially when you highlight it trying to diminish his size, leadership, work ethic, studies the game, dedicated, very low off the field risk. The guy then says "While I do not know EJ on a personal level", but I do know (since I'm a mind reader) "It is also my opinion that EJ is the type of person who wants to succeed and please his coaches to the point that he internalizes and personalizes criticism that is meant to be situational and related to his play, not his worth as a person." Don't fall for this fellow Bills fans - this article is a farce and EJ hasn't played enough to use this as a resource. This guy is somewhere around 29 years old and isn't some seasoned respected source for scouting. Stop believing more in Bud Elliiot than you do EJ Manuel. Exactly. This is what I meant when I said taking a crap on him. Fans not scouts, just like Buffalo Rumblings, sure they hit on some stuff but who knows what potential they are missing. Real NFL scouts thought EJ worth the risk. So did Buddy and the Dougs, I just have to have faith in that. I hope it is well placed faith.
GG Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 Exactly. Gets it. That's a silly comparison, and you know it.
White Linen Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 This quote from the article sums up everything I thought/think about EJ. "EJ has demonstrated high levels of proficiency at times. He has also displayed levels of inconsistency at even the fundamental aspects of quarterback play that raise serious questions about his ultimate ceiling as a QB. The frustrating part of these inconsistencies is that they are so very inconsistent and appear seemingly at random. For a coach trying to address these issues it must feel like a game of whack-a-mole; as soon as you resolve one deficiency, another that you thought you had fixed reappears. This suggests a quarterback who has not sufficiently mastered the fundamental aspects of the position to the point that they happen automatically." I get it, but all you're doing is getting duped by someone with good writing skills. He's stating the obvious and acting like he's knows how to trace it back to fundamentals, what a joke. The whack - a - mole reference is smart and it resonates, but that's with almost every college player. EJ was an outstanding college QB and has 10 games under his belt - that's it!
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 That's a silly comparison, and you know it. I don't. Kelly obviously had a higher pedigree coming out of college, but he had two years where he wasn't languishing on an aimless Bills team. It was to his benefit. He still didn't make the playoffs until his third season of NFL ball. Everyone who wants to believe they have the book on a much younger QB with ten games to his credit would do well to remember that the team's greatest QB played four seasons of pro ball before he took the Bills anywhere.
BillsVet Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 I get it, but all you're doing is getting duped by someone with good writing skills. He's stating the obvious and acting like he's knows how to trace it back to fundamentals, what a joke. The whack - a - mole reference is smart and it resonates, but that's with almost every college player. EJ was an outstanding college QB and has 10 games under his belt - that's it! Then explain why, under the same coach, FSU went from EJ's production in 2012 to Winston's in 2013 at QB. For the record, Manuel (a senior) was 263 of 387 (68%) for 3397 yards and 23 TD's versus 10 INT's. He rushed for 321 yards on 103 carries for 4 TD's. Winston was, as a RS freshman, 257 for 384 (66.9%) for 4057 yards and 40 TD's versus 10 INT's. He rushed for 219 yards on 88 carries for 4 TD's. Stats don't tell the whole story, but it's interesting to note the difference between a RS freshman versus a senior.
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 Then explain why, under the same coach, FSU went from EJ's production in 2012 to Winston's in 2013 at QB. For the record, Manuel (a senior) was 263 of 387 (68%) for 3397 yards and 23 TD's versus 10 INT's. He rushed for 321 yards on 103 carries for 4 TD's. Winston was, as a RS freshman, 257 for 384 (66.9%) for 4057 yards and 40 TD's versus 10 INT's. He rushed for 219 yards on 88 carries for 4 TD's. Stats don't tell the whole story, but it's interesting to note the difference between a RS freshman versus a senior. The same coach and nothing else was different, including another year of experience for the underclassmen? Winston thinks of EJ as a mentor, FWIW.
Best Player Available Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 The same coach and nothing else was different, including another year of experience for the underclassmen? Winston thinks of EJ as a mentor, FWIW. A Diet heavy in crab legs was the reason for his good season.
BarleyNY Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 Wow. That's is some great evaluation. Like you said, spot on. Let's hope it changes this season. Yup. A sadly accurate appraisal.
GG Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 I don't. Kelly obviously had a higher pedigree coming out of college, but he had two years where he wasn't languishing on an aimless Bills team. It was to his benefit. He still didn't make the playoffs until his third season of NFL ball. Everyone who wants to believe they have the book on a much younger QB with ten games to his credit would do well to remember that the team's greatest QB played four seasons of pro ball before he took the Bills anywhere. The analogy does not fit because Kelly was far more NFL ready. He lit up the USFL from the get go and it wasn't like he studied under Mouse Davis for years before he started looking good throwing the ball. Part of Kelly's problems with the Bills was that he was too reckless, not that he was tentative. Kelly was also not surrounded by good talent on offense in his first two years here. The only similarity is that both struggled in their first year, but for totally different reasons, and there weren't a lot of people questioning whether Kelly could be a star in the NFL. That's not the case for EJ. And as always, these threads devolve into a black or white situation about the QB. The pro-EJ camp falls back on his lack of experience as the supporting reason, while the anti-EJ camp points to the same flaws that plagued him in college. But the truth is always in the middle. EJ was known to be a reach in 1st round who needs time to develop. But as part of that development, you should see tangible improvement in his game this year. That's why the first practice in pads was so disconcerting. It wasn't that he didn't have the chemistry with his new WRs yet. It's that he was still too tentative. Let's see what the rest of the preseason brings, because with the types of WRs he now has, there should be very little excuse for him not to lift his game.
K-9 Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 The analogy does not fit because Kelly was far more NFL ready. He lit up the USFL from the get go and it wasn't like he studied under Mouse Davis for years before he started looking good throwing the ball. Part of Kelly's problems with the Bills was that he was too reckless, not that he was tentative. Kelly was also not surrounded by good talent on offense in his first two years here. The only similarity is that both struggled in their first year, but for totally different reasons, and there weren't a lot of people questioning whether Kelly could be a star in the NFL. That's not the case for EJ. And as always, these threads devolve into a black or white situation about the QB. The pro-EJ camp falls back on his lack of experience as the supporting reason, while the anti-EJ camp points to the same flaws that plagued him in college. But the truth is always in the middle. EJ was known to be a reach in 1st round who needs time to develop. But as part of that development, you should see tangible improvement in his game this year. That's why the first practice in pads was so disconcerting. It wasn't that he didn't have the chemistry with his new WRs yet. It's that he was still too tentative. Let's see what the rest of the preseason brings, because with the types of WRs he now has, there should be very little excuse for him not to lift his game. Just for the record, I'm not comparing Kelly to Manuel in any way shape or form. Merely pointed out that Kelly benefited greatly from working with Mouse Davis and learning to read defenses before he came to the NFL. ALL quarterbacks need time to develop. EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM. From Unitas to Manuel to Johnny Football. I think that's all anyone is trying to say. No need to make this into comparisons on any other level. GO BILLS!!!
GG Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 ALL quarterbacks need time to develop. They all do, but what separates the good ones from the rest is the good ones improve over that development period. The jury is still out on EJ.
K-9 Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 They all do, but what separates the good ones from the rest is the good ones improve over that development period. The jury is still out on EJ. Of course the jury is still out on EJ. I think he'll get his 1,000 attempts from this FO and coaching staff before he's pronounced good enough or not. That will surely rankle some who have already pronounced him a bust, but patience is key at the moment, at least from a team perspective. In the meantime, you fill in some critical surrounding pieces to give him the best opportunity to succeed. The FO seems to be addressing this important aspect. Can you imagine Kelly playing in '83 with that supporting cast? Ouch. GO BILLS!!!
thebandit27 Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 Of course the jury is still out on EJ. I think he'll get his 1,000 attempts from this FO and coaching staff before he's pronounced good enough or not. That will surely rankle some who have already pronounced him a bust, but patience is key at the moment, at least from a team perspective. In the meantime, you fill in some critical surrounding pieces to give him the best opportunity to succeed. The FO seems to be addressing this important aspect. Can you imagine Kelly playing in '83 with that supporting cast? Ouch. GO BILLS!!! I think what will really set the tone is what type of progress EJ shows--not just early on this season, but as the season advances as well. It's one thing to get better during the offseason by getting healthier, stronger, and working on mechanics/habits; as you know it's quite another to improve during the course of the season. It's my opinion that the great ones can do both.
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 The analogy does not fit because Kelly was far more NFL ready. He lit up the USFL from the get go and it wasn't like he studied under Mouse Davis for years before he started looking good throwing the ball. I agree, it serves no one to compare the two as quarterbacks. I'm comparing their situations, and the fact is that the practice that Kelly got was valuable, and the number of reps he took before becoming elite was sizable, and this franchise QB had a lot more of them under his belt than does our second year man. No one thinks EJ is or was on the same development curve, and that's why I think some posters could take a step back off the ledge until he gets more reps. I want to see improvement this year and I think it's imperative. I also think we've been wowed by preseason and practice all-stars only to see them fail in the pressure situations. I just find this "he isn't looking good on day 3" stuff a tad ridiculous. If he looks terrible in week 3, I'll be more concerned.
GG Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 The other progress that EJ needs to show is avoiding injuries. While we may argue whether the TJ Ward hit could have been avoided, I'm much more perplexed about his other two knee injuries, which occurred on seemingly innocent plays.
YoloinOhio Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 The other progress that EJ needs to show is avoiding injuries. While we may argue whether the TJ Ward hit could have been avoided, I'm much more perplexed about his other two knee injuries, which occurred on seemingly innocent plays. I think it was Gipson that hit him. Ward was the one who threw confetti when he didn't get up.
GG Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 I think it was Gipson that hit him. Ward was the one who threw confetti when he didn't get up. Oops, probably. I just associate Ward with borderline hits.
YoloinOhio Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 Oops, probably. I just associate Ward with borderline hits. Yep - he took out Gronk.
You herd it hear last Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 I would like to remind everybody that the QB prior to EJ was Ryan Fitzpatrick. Did you guys know he went to Harvard?
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