CSBill Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Sal's article on WGR gives a very good explanation of the scheme: http://www.wgr550.com/two-bills-drive/19508975 But this is what really scares me: It’s also why the Bills so desperately need Marcell Dareus to stay on the field and play at a Pro Bowl level. In many defensive schemes, there are more players committed to helping each other flush out the ball carrier. Not so much this one. This scheme relies heavily on those middle-of-the-defense defenders to make plays in space and often by themselves. If one gets beaten, huge chunks of yardage are at risk. Two thoughts: 1) Anything that is dependent upon Marcell Dareus right now is a total crap shoot. And 2) Yes, we added Spikes, but our interior run defense has been very porous for the last few seasons, and it appears to me this strategy feeds into our greatest weakness. Moreover, I have never liked the idea of spreading the lineman so wide, remember a few years ago the Eagles scrapped this system in mid-season because they couldn't stop the run. Our weakness has been run defense, and this system makes any team more vulnerable to getting run over. Well, I hope I'm TOTALLY wrong, but I just have a bad feeling. Any help ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Whether run D improves is a fair concern. The last few years schwartzs ypc stats have been average to terrible, but teams haven't had a large volume of carries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Interesting insight. It also highlights how important out safety play will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Interesting insight. It also highlights how important out safety play will be. Well, rest easy, since we've got Jairus Byrd back there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 So you're saying we need to accentuate our weakness, and by doing so it will somehow become our strength? Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Wide 9 isn't a scheme, it's an alignment commo let used in obvious passing situations. I think you're going to see a lot more versatility in Schwartz's scheme than he's currently being given credit for in some circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Monkey Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Moreover, I have never liked the idea of spreading the lineman so wide, remember a few years ago the Eagles scrapped this system in mid-season because they couldn't stop the run. Our weakness has been run defense, and this system makes any team more vulnerable to getting run over. Well, I hope I'm TOTALLY wrong, but I just have a bad feeling. Any help ??? the Eagles are not the place to look for wide 9. They had Jaun Castillo trying to implement it. He moved from Oline coach to D coordinator even though he had never been a D coordinator at any level Edited July 25, 2014 by Yard Monkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I can't make it to camp, but I haven't seen anyone really report on the alignment of the DL being "Wide 9". Just watched some camp highlight videos from camp, didn't see any "wide 9" alignment, so not sure how much it's being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 has Schwartz ever even said they will be running the wide 9? i see a lot of people assuming he will use it but i dont remember him ever actually saying it the Eagles attempt at the wide 9 was a disaster but there were a lot of reasons for that, cant compare that situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Every defense in the NFL at some point runs some version of the wide 9 at times. Schwartz's 4-3 that we have seen thus far at camp is actually a near-perfect fit for the Bills defensive personnel. The only piece I am worried about is Manny Lawson at DE, who has not shown to have adapted well yet in camp or maybe just simply has not performed well. Interesting that he and Branch have had issues early on (one conditioning, one performing) after skipping voluntary OTAs, when the new scheme was first being installed. Clearly there is time for improvement. Typically teams implement defensive schemes based on personnel and to take advantage of their best players so I am not surprised we will rely on Dareus. The loss of Kiko is the biggest hit, as this D would have taken advantage if his strengths at WLB as well. Mario will also be an excellent fit. KW will be in a position to lead. The concern on Dareus is valid, however, he has two very good backups who, based on how they have looked at camp, has prompted observers to say they could start on other teams. And the only time he has missed to my knowledge thus far in his career has been Marrone taking him the field, and that was once we were out of playoff contention. Whether he will be suspended by the NFL is something no one knows, but I am on the side that doesn't see it happening, at least this year. Schwartz's scheme actually doesn't rely on deep safety play as much as Pettine's did. If Pettine was still here, the loss of Byrd would be felt much more. Three things: 1. no Defensive scheme is perfect if players miss assignments. You saw that with Pettine's. 2. The Bills specifically added strong run defenders to the fold in FA and the draft. 3. Subpackages are the name of the game. Edited July 25, 2014 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 the Eagles are not the place to look for wide 9. They had Jaun Castillo trying to implement it. He moved from Oline coach to D coordinator even though he had never been a D coordinator at any level I think the reason the Eagles are used as an example is that at the time of Castillo's transition I believe Jim Washburn was the team's DL coach. Washburn has always been a Wide-9 guy, even on 1st/2nd downs, which IMO was a huge failure in Philly given that he didn't have a stout pair of DTs like he usually did in Tennessee and Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Wait... you're worried about one of our two Pro-Bowl caliber DTs ruining our defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Wide 9 isn't a scheme, it's an alignment commo let used in obvious passing situations. I think you're going to see a lot more versatility in Schwartz's scheme than he's currently being given credit for in some circles. You just don't it dude, we're doomed, got it? Doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle flap Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Wide 9 isn't a scheme, it's an alignment commo let used in obvious passing situations. I think you're going to see a lot more versatility in Schwartz's scheme than he's currently being given credit for in some circles. At Sunday's practice they seemed to line up either in basically a "traditional" 4-3 over or in a 4-2-5 Nickel the majority of the time. What was interesting to me is that one of the ends was frequently in a standing position, so some of the 4-3 looks looked like a 3-4. I can't make it to camp, but I haven't seen anyone really report on the alignment of the DL being "Wide 9". Just watched some camp highlight videos from camp, didn't see any "wide 9" alignment, so not sure how much it's being used. I'm going to camp again tonight so I'll be sure to take note. I heard that since Sunday Schwartz has been more aggressive and blitzing out of different packages and I'm excited to see for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Sal's article on WGR gives a very good explanation of the scheme: http://www.wgr550.co...-drive/19508975 But this is what really scares me: It’s also why the Bills so desperately need Marcell Dareus to stay on the field and play at a Pro Bowl level. In many defensive schemes, there are more players committed to helping each other flush out the ball carrier. Not so much this one. This scheme relies heavily on those middle-of-the-defense defenders to make plays in space and often by themselves. If one gets beaten, huge chunks of yardage are at risk. Two thoughts: 1) Anything that is dependent upon Marcell Dareus right now is a total crap shoot. And 2) Yes, we added Spikes, but our interior run defense has been very porous for the last few seasons, and it appears to me this strategy feeds into our greatest weakness. Moreover, I have never liked the idea of spreading the lineman so wide, remember a few years ago the Eagles scrapped this system in mid-season because they couldn't stop the run. Our weakness has been run defense, and this system makes any team more vulnerable to getting run over. Well, I hope I'm TOTALLY wrong, but I just have a bad feeling. Any help ??? Yeah, I cringed when we lost Pettine and hired Schwartz. Not gonna be a good year for the Bills. We lost 2 playmakers on the D, and have a crappy coach, coaching the D. I expect an epic fail on D ala Dave Wannstadt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Yeah, I cringed when we lost Pettine and hired Schwartz. Not gonna be a good year for the Bills. We lost 2 playmakers on the D, and have a crappy coach, coaching the D. I expect an epic fail on D ala Dave Wannstadt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) At Sunday's practice they seemed to line up either in basically a "traditional" 4-3 over or in a 4-2-5 Nickel the majority of the time. What was interesting to me is that one of the ends was frequently in a standing position, so some of the 4-3 looks looked like a 3-4. I'm going to camp again tonight so I'll be sure to take note. I heard that since Sunday Schwartz has been more aggressive and blitzing out of different packages and I'm excited to see for myself. Sounds basically identical to what Pettine was doing. Yeah, I cringed when we lost Pettine and hired Schwartz. Not gonna be a good year for the Bills. We lost 2 playmakers on the D, and have a crappy coach, coaching the D. I expect an epic fail on D ala Dave Wannstadt. We also added arguably the best run defending LB in the NFL, as well as a very good depth corner. I'm also not sure why Schwartz is a "crappy" coach, nor do I understand why you'd fail to mention that we added a former DC as a LBs coach, and brought in a very likely up-and-coming DC in Pepper Johnson to coach DL. How do all of these things add up to an "epic fail"? For that matter, why is it now en vogue to use "fail" as a noun instead of "failure"? Edited July 25, 2014 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheZone78 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Everybody knows there were some Wide 9 alignments played last year right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBytheBay Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 has Schwartz ever even said they will be running the wide 9? i see a lot of people assuming he will use it but i dont remember him ever actually saying it the Eagles attempt at the wide 9 was a disaster but there were a lot of reasons for that, cant compare that situation that's because he said it isn't the base scheme. Can't remember how long ago, but Schwartz had already fielded the question; we are an attacking 43. Not wide nine. I do however, count on seeing it on a lot of long yardage situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Everybody knows there were some Wide 9 alignments played last year right? Wide-9 is this season's buzz word...last year it was a tie between "hybrid" and "up-tempo" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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