FireChan Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 What do you people think would happen if Goodell "sent a message?" Some linebacker would wind up a punch and remember that he might lose his job and endorsements, and then stop? That he'll remember that it's wrong? Do people still need to be told it's wrong? Is that the solution? "Oh man, I'm not supposed to punch my wife? Whoops!" I'm outraged at the outrage.
birdog1960 Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Unlike the rest of the peanut gallery I don't much care for the conclusion of this post. You're essentially saying that the NFL should take a dual role between being a football league and also a political action group that must engineer broad social policy and enforce perceived opinions of morality. This is as short-sighted as Goodell's silly little drug suspension policy. There is no defining line that separates this from any other perceived misdeed. So you're essentially calling for the league to be these guy's school master. But why? What this really comes down to is you're upset because you see an injustice and you want the NFL yo punish him to satisfy your sense of justice. That's the gist of all of this. The problem is that you've not explained why penalizing domestic violence should be the responsibility of the NFL. Are you suggesting our society is currently tolerant of domestic violence? Is that based on anything other than a feeling of moral superiority that wells up in your chest when you say that? uh huh. it's based on what mayweather and other celebrity abusers have said. it's based on the fact that most of these cases go with out prosecution including celebrity cases. it's based on the nfl's tepid initial response. it's based on a microsampling here of attitudes that include near indifference to outrage by a person that deals with domestic violence professionally.
FireChan Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 uh huh. it's based on what mayweather and other celebrity abusers have said. it's based on the fact that most of these cases go with out prosecution including celebrity cases. it's based on the nfl's tepid initial response. it's based on a microsampling here of attitudes that include near indifference to outrage by a person that deals with domestic violence professionally. So your solution to a lack of prosecution is get outraged at everyone but the prosecutors? Huh? Not once has one social justice champion said one thing about the victims in this case. Not once. Who do you really care about, the victims of domestic violence or your own desire for vengeance?
billsfan1959 Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Unlike the rest of the peanut gallery I don't much care for the conclusion of this post. You're essentially saying that the NFL should take a dual role between being a football league and also a political action group that must engineer broad social policy and enforce perceived opinions of morality. This is as short-sighted as Goodell's silly little drug suspension policy. There is no defining line that separates this from any other perceived misdeed. So you're essentially calling for the league to be these guy's school master. But why? What this really comes down to is you're upset because you see an injustice and you want the NFL yo punish him to satisfy your sense of justice. That's the gist of all of this. The problem is that you've not explained why penalizing domestic violence should be the responsibility of the NFL. So it's Goodell's job to send a message to men who beat women? Really? Are you suggesting our society is currently tolerant of domestic violence? Is that based on anything other than a feeling of moral superiority that wells up in your chest when you say that? Why do you say? What is short sighted are opinions like yours. The NFL is part of the American society and the use of the national/international sports stage as a medium for making social statements goes back a long way (e.g., Jesse Owens, Jackie Robinson) and continues up to the present (e.g., Donal Sterling). Opportunities arise in all walks of life to address important social issues. When those opportunities arise, they should be take advantage of. It is not Goodell's responsiblity as the NFL Commissioner. It is about his responsibility as a member of our society who has the forum and opportunity to do a greater good. The only moral superiority I see here is dripping from your posts.
birdog1960 Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 So your solution to a lack of prosecution is get outraged at everyone but the prosecutors? Huh? Not once has one social justice champion said one thing about the victims in this case. Not once. Who do you really care about, the victims of domestic violence or your own desire for vengeance? both. say your kid's teacher was videoed doing this. would you be happy if the school board suspended him for 2 weeks? insert just about any other profession for teacher. stiff punishment results in a safer environment for just about everyone while also punishing the perpetrator. it needn't be one or the other which is the false choice you put forward..
FireChan Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 What is short sighted are opinions like yours. The NFL is part of the American society and the use of the national/international sports stage as a medium for making social statements goes back a long way (e.g., Jesse Owens, Jackie Robinson) and continues up to the present (e.g., Donal Sterling). Opportunities arise in all walks of life to address important social issues. When those opportunities arise, they should be take advantage of. It is not Goodell's responsiblity as the NFL Commissioner. It is about his responsibility as a member of our society who has the forum and opportunity to do a greater good. The only moral superiority I see here is dripping from your posts. So Goodell should be fired for not taking an opportunity to make a social statement? I think you should be fired for not picketing.
Jauronimo Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 I just want to make it clear that I'm the most outraged and think Goodell should be tried for crimes against humanity.
1billsfan Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) His moral obligation? How is it Goodell's moral obligation and to who does he owe this obligation? Edit: I notice you glossed over the part about sending a message. Because the NFL is by far the most successful and influential league in the country. Every year the top 20 TV show ratings almost entirely consist of NFL games. Yet Goodell acting as NFL Commissioner has no moral obligation to consider the broader societal standards and decency in a case such as this one? You're hung up on “sending a message” and it’s only semantics. If he had given Ray Rice a proper punishment, Goodell would have sent a message to NFL players and to the millions of NFL fans that domestic violence has no place in the NFL and will not be tolerated. He sent the opposite message by giving Ray Rice 2 games. If this was your sister, I’m sure you would be singing a much different tune. If this was Roger’s daughter do you honestly think he would have not seen the tape? Suspended him indefinitely? Give me a break. Edited September 10, 2014 by 1billsfan
billsfan1959 Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 So Goodell should be fired for not taking an opportunity to make a social statement? I think you should be fired for not picketing. Goodell should be fired for not diligently doing his job on an issue that is as serious as any in our society - whether you like it or not.
FireChan Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) Goodell should be fired for not diligently doing his job on an issue that is as serious as any in our society - whether you like it or not. Goodell doesn't work for our "society." Our government does. He's just a scapegoat. You just argued about his moral duty, now you're saying he didn't do his job. Which is it? Why does Goodell deserved to be punished as harshly as the guy who actually perpetrated the crime? Does that make sense to you? I think you should be fired for not picketing about this issue, and Ferguson and ISIS. You're clearly not doing your moral duty to society and you don't deserve your job. Care to comment? Edited September 10, 2014 by FireChan
PolishDave Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) I just want to make it clear that I'm the most outraged and think Goodell should be tried for crimes against humanity. lol....awesome sarcasm Following the heated discussions in this thread is like watching an episode of Jerry Springer. I feel dumber for watching it. Yet I can't look away. Watching people argue that Goodell should somehow be fired for something that Ray Rice did is like drilling a hole in my head and slowly draining any intelligence I had left in there. Pretty soon I will be giggling awkwardly like a ten year old who has been playing video games for 48 hours straight jacked up on Pepsi's and Cheetos. Num...num..num... Edited September 10, 2014 by PolishDave
billsfan1959 Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Goodell doesn't work for our "society." Our government does. He's just a scapegoat. You just argued about his moral duty, now you're saying he didn't do his job. Which is it? Why does Goodell deserved to be punished as harshly as the guy who actually perpetrated the crime? Does that make sense to you? I think you should be fired for not picketing about this issue, and Ferguson and ISIS. You're clearly not doing your moral duty to society and you don't deserve your job. Care to comment? I spent 8 years in the military. I spent 23 years with the FBI. I currently assist prosecutors in murder, sexual assault, and intimate partner violence trials. I also provide training to law enforcement, prosecutors, and mental health professionals on offense, offender, and victim characteristics in intimate partner violence and sexual assault. I think I have spent a lifetime doing my moral duty. How about you? Care to comment?
FireChan Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 (edited) I spent 8 years in the military. I spent 23 years with the FBI. I currently assist prosecutors in murder, sexual assault, and intimate partner violence trials. I also provide training to law enforcement, prosecutors, and mental health professionals on offense, offender, and victim characteristics in intimate partner violence and sexual assault. I think I have spent a lifetime doing my moral duty. How about you? Care to comment? I'm not proposing someone gets fired over not doing their moral duty. Do you get a pass because you've done moral duty in the past? I believe Goodell has facilitated numerous charities. What have you done for Ferguson, I don't see that in your resume. You didn't do anything? Clearly, you had an opportunity. You didn't take advantage of it. I think you should be fired. Are you ready to rescind taking such a ridiculous and illogical stance yet? Or must I continue? Edited September 10, 2014 by FireChan
Gray Beard Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 I believe that Goodell in his heart believes he is doing the "right thing." But... Could it be that Goodell is afraid of losing advertising dollars if he appears soft on DV?
1billsfan Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 Goodell doesn't work for our "society." Our government does. He's just a scapegoat. You just argued about his moral duty, now you're saying he didn't do his job. Which is it? Why does Goodell deserved to be punished as harshly as the guy who actually perpetrated the crime? Does that make sense to you? I think you should be fired for not picketing about this issue, and Ferguson and ISIS. You're clearly not doing your moral duty to society and you don't deserve your job. Care to comment? It’s 2014 and people don’t picket anymore. They post comments on the internet and participate in polls which is much more effective when the decibel gets high enough. Will I boycott the NFL? No, because I think the NFL brand is getting severely punished with the media’s 24/7 video of Ray Rice knocking out a woman in what is the first week of the 2014 regular season. Society’s disgust has deemed it a huge story and that’s why it’s not going away. Goodell broke the public’s trust and he’s bearing the brunt of it whether he stays or goes. He’ll never fully recover his credibility from this either way. That is a punishment in and of itself.
billsfan1959 Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 I'm not proposing someone gets fired over not doing their moral duty. Do you get a pass because you've done moral duty in the past? I believe Goodell has facilitated numerous charities. What have you done for Ferguson, I don't see that in your resume. You didn't do anything? Clearly, you had an opportunity. You didn't take advantage of it. I think you should be fired. I try to debate topics and I try to never get personal in posts. You know nothing about me and personally called me out for not doing my moral duty - even though it is absolutely irrelevant to the topic. I answered you and you give the above response. There really is nothing substantive in your posts to debate at this point.
Jauronimo Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 I try to debate topics and I try to never get personal in posts. You know nothing about me and personally called me out for not doing my moral duty - even though it is absolutely irrelevant to the topic. I answered you and you give the above response. There really is nothing substantive in your posts to debate at this point. Point missed.
FireChan Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 I try to debate topics and I try to never get personal in posts. You know nothing about me and personally called me out for not doing my moral duty - even though it is absolutely irrelevant to the topic. I answered you and you give the above response. There really is nothing substantive in your posts to debate at this point. I'm not calling you out personally. Do you not see my point? You can call out every single person in America for not doing their "moral duty." If your position is that you should lose your job because of it, so should everyone else. See the gaps in logic that you're ignoring here? To hold Goodell to a higher standard than everyone else working in a private business is LUDICROUS. And not the good kind. Just stop. Your position is untenable and devoid of sense. I'm using your own logic against you to prove its ridiculousness. The only substance in my posts is YOUR point. To call it not substantive is highly amusing and ironic. Point missed. Tag me in! It’s 2014 and people don’t picket anymore. They post comments on the internet and participate in polls which is much more effective when the decibel gets high enough. Will I boycott the NFL? No, because I think the NFL brand is getting severely punished with the media’s 24/7 video of Ray Rice knocking out a woman in what is the first week of the 2014 regular season. Society’s disgust has deemed it a huge story and that’s why it’s not going away. Goodell broke the public’s trust and he’s bearing the brunt of it whether he stays or goes. He’ll never fully recover his credibility from this either way. That is a punishment in and of itself. His credibility to who? The public? I doubt this affects the NFL financially at all. His credibility to the owners is probably fine, he's their lap dog. This may cost him his job because the owners will fire him as a scapegoat, but I doubt they care as much as the public.
billsfan1959 Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 I'm not calling you out personally. Do you not see my point? You can call out every single person in America for not doing their "moral duty." If your position is that you should lose your job because of it, so should everyone else. See the gaps in logic that you're ignoring here? To hold Goodell to a higher standard than everyone else working in a private business is LUDICROUS. And not the good kind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5W73HaVQBg Just stop. Your position is untenable and devoid of sense. I'm using your own logic against you to prove its ridiculousness. The only substance in my posts is YOUR point. To call it not substantive is highly amusing and ironic. Tag me in! His credibility to who? The public? I doubt this affects the NFL financially at all. His credibility to the owners is probably fine, he's their lap dog. This may cost him his job because the owners will fire him as a scapegoat, but I doubt they care as much as the public. You are missing the point. Goodell is not "any person" in the United States. He is the Commissioner of the NFL and he, himself, has gone about setting the standard of conduct for the players. He did not do his job in this instance. Period. End of story. He did not do his "due diligence" regarding behavior that, whether you like it or not, has much broader implications. As much as you would like it to be the case to support your simple arguments, things do not happen in a vacuum. They tend to be much more complex in nature. We can just agree to disagree on this point.
Rob's House Posted September 10, 2014 Posted September 10, 2014 What is short sighted are opinions like yours. The NFL is part of the American society and the use of the national/international sports stage as a medium for making social statements goes back a long way (e.g., Jesse Owens, Jackie Robinson) and continues up to the present (e.g., Donal Sterling). Opportunities arise in all walks of life to address important social issues. When those opportunities arise, they should be take advantage of. It is not Goodell's responsiblity as the NFL Commissioner. It is about his responsibility as a member of our society who has the forum and opportunity to do a greater good. The only moral superiority I see here is dripping from your posts. So you're basically making the spider man argument. Because the NFL arguably has the power to influence social issues it has the responsibility to advance whatever social issues the public mob mentality believes it should advance at the moment. Further, you think is somehow comparable to Jackie Robinson (I'm not going to get into whether MLB was trying to influence the culture for the greater social good or was making a business decision) and the NFL has a moral obligation to ??? because if the NFL shows that it doesn't tolerate domestic abuse by it's employees it will have some greater social good? Is that the gist of it? No offense, it sounds like goofy head in the clouds idiocy to me, but perhaps you're right. BTW, It's not moral superiority that drips from my posts, it's intellectual superiority. Try to keep up.
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