RuntheDamnBall Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 Assumption on your part. We don't know she was forced or coerced. You would think so...but abuse victims have acted more strangely. Fair enough.
Mr. WEO Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 What do you expect? He's a professional writer. He's forced to write to the lowest common denominator. One would think....
Doc Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 Assumption on your part. We don't know she was forced or coerced. You would think so...but abuse victims have acted more strangely. It was neither. With his cash, he's her gravy train.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 Nothing official yet, but that's what Florio says. http://profootballta...o-be-two-games/ Sooooooo, that's what knocking a woman unconscious gets you. (Edit: it's official). The NFL switchboard must have lit up like a Christmas tree with folks wondering why a little Ganja gets you 4 games or more, but cold-cocking a woman half your size or less in a public elevator is 2 games. With the video of the smackdown released, it would have been a PR nightmare for the league not to suspend him >> than what you get for pot, and for the Ravens to keep him - Harbaugh was looking like an ass for going on record "he's a heck of a guy" and the Ravens "Janay Rice says she deeply regrets the role that she played the night of the incident." tweet -wow, talk about "doesn't get it". There aren't enough single dudes to fill the stands and the TV audience if the ladies are like, "that's some sh**" and changing the channel. It's illegal but we all know a lot of folks see nothing wrong with a little toke in private and think the league is nutz for their mary jane policy. Decent guys have a distaste for knocking a woman around like that and would defend themselves, but even then pull back some, from a smaller woman attacking them. The media say Ray and Janay are in counseling and I hope it's for-real or she's got a hard life ahead of her. Dollars and diamonds aren't worth it. Proverbs 15:17 has it right. The Ravens and the NFL are so FOS, Rice had to be given access to the video as part of the legal proceedings. The NFL could have seen it long ago, or maybe they did, and the Ravens too. It's just caving to PR.
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 His life is ruined now. I'm happy. Hopefully others can learn from him. One decision can destroy all the good you've done. I do know there are some hypocrites who hate Rice yet wanted the Bills to keep Lynch (he only hit a girl with a car and left here in the street). Eff Rice, eff the Ravens, eff Goodell. And part of me thinks if Rice was Adrian Peterson, he'd still be on the team.
aristocrat Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 His life is ruined now. I'm happy. Hopefully others can learn from him. One decision can destroy all the good you've done. I do know there are some hypocrites who hate Rice yet wanted the Bills to keep Lynch (he only hit a girl with a car and left here in the street). Eff Rice, eff the Ravens, eff Goodell. And part of me thinks if Rice was Adrian Peterson, he'd still be on the team. Happy his life is ruined? Come on. I actually hope he never does anything like this again, gets his life on track and becomes a better person. People make mistakes but they should also be allowed to be forgiven.
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 Happy his life is ruined? Come on. I actually hope he never does anything like this again, gets his life on track and becomes a better person. People make mistakes but they should also be allowed to be forgiven. You're probably right and I was a little strong. I just hated how he skated on it in the first place. The sad part is there's plenty of people who commit domestic violence who never receive justice.
FireChan Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) One small problem with that, is that then you're asking the owner to weigh "doing the right thing" vs. making sure his team wins on Sundays. I think we all know which scenario is likeliest to play out here. I know that these kinds of cases bring out the anti-PC brigade and people who think that the real problem is false moral outrage, and I understand why. But I also caution posters who don't know the histories of other posters here about painting anyone with too broad a brush on this issue. It is entirely possible that the outrage that some people have on this issue is real and valid, and personal. I will concede that this is first an issue because the video exists, and second because of Goodell's complete mangling of the PR side of this (the "who did/didn't see the tape" fiasco). It's pretty reasonable to assume that the recently released video 1) existed and 2) should have been seen by Goodell. It's also pretty reasonable to assume that law enforcement screwed the pooch big time here. Is this all Goodell's job? I am not exactly sure. It is certainly less his job than it is the job of law enforcement. But he is a standard-bearer for a brand that really cannot alienate women wholesale right now -- not when a lot of moms are already thinking long and hard about whether their sons should even be allowed to play this sport. I understand why things are the way they are. As for people hating Ray Rice more because the tape exists: Ray Rice is the coward here -- and if fewer abusers can dish out violence because they fear they might be caught on tape somehow, all the better. The existence of the tape should magnify the evil of domestic abuse. It shouldn't be taken as the big bad media etc singling out the guy when he's not the only one. It's a moment where the tables are turned, the abuser is revealed for who he is, and the victim-blaming excuses are just absolutely crushed. We need more of that. Exactly, and the owner should make that choice. Rice was cut before he was suspended indefinitely. I don't think it's as obvious of a choice as you think. It would have been open season for the media on the Ravens had they kept Rice. I don't know too many business owners who would take a scumbag on their roster and the PR fallout for some arbitrary distinction (the Superbowl). But the owner should decide, not the commissioner. How a Ravens player (or owner) acts off the field has no bearing on the other 31 organizations. By making the commissioner the face of the entire league's conduct, they have made the act of one player an example of the ENTIRE NFL, not just one organization. Which, personally, I think is worse for business. Edited September 9, 2014 by FireChan
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 Exactly, and the owner should make that choice. Rice was cut before he was suspended indefinitely. I don't think it's as obvious of a choice as you think. It would have been open season for the media on the Ravens had they kept Rice. I don't know too many business owners who would take a scumbag on their roster and the PR fallout for some arbitrary distinction (the Superbowl). But the owner should decide, not the commissioner. How a Ravens player (or owner) acts off the field has no bearing on the other 31 organizations. By making the commissioner the face of the entire league's conduct, they have made the act of one player an example of the ENTIRE NFL, not just one organization. Which, personally, I think is worse for business. Caveat - it would have been open season…without the tape everybody saw today, which again, would he have been cut without its release? What looks bad is the insinuation made to many respectable NFL reporters that the NFL and Ravens had all the evidence when they made the initial decision, and then to backtrack on that. It makes it look like they are making the decision for the wrong reasons, whatever their decision.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 The league never denied seeing the tape until today (they were asked about it back then). Therefore it was widely assumed they saw the tape. King is calling out the league as lying, in so many words. Too bad they couldn't get their hands on the Rice tape and destroy it. With his cash, he's her gravy train. Not no more... Sugar daddy about to be forced out of the league. Hope he saved some dough. Anyway, its a priviledge to work and make millions in the NFL, not a right... He can work other places, nobody is denying him an income. "Hey aren't you Ray Rice? My dad says you're a scum bag. I think you are gr8... Can I have fries with that?"
Rob's House Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 Caveat - it would have been open season…without the tape everybody saw today, which again, would he have been cut without its release? What looks bad is the insinuation made to many respectable NFL reporters that the NFL and Ravens had all the evidence when they made the initial decision, and then to backtrack on that. It makes it look like they are making the decision for the wrong reasons, whatever their decision. What is the right reason? (I'm being a bit rhetorical with that). The reality is that the only reason they're dishing out any penalty at all is because of image. You may think it should be about whatever your sense of justice is, but as we've stated before, the societal mechanism to punish behavior is the court system. The only reason businesses have these kinds of policies is to protect their business interests. In this case they need to act as though they are doing something to battle domestic violence, (as though football has anything to do with domestic violence) to appease fans in order to avoid harming their brand (i.e. profitability), If they were doing it for some other reason, like some kind of activism, I would argue THAT was the wrong reason. Put differently, it's not an employer's responsibility or even place to police the morality of its employees. It is the employer's responsibility and place to protect its interests.
JC2002 Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 His life is ruined now. I'm happy. Hopefully others can learn from him. One decision can destroy all the good you've done. I do know there are some hypocrites who hate Rice yet wanted the Bills to keep Lynch (he only hit a girl with a car and left here in the street). Eff Rice, eff the Ravens, eff Goodell. And part of me thinks if Rice was Adrian Peterson, he'd still be on the team. Actually its ruined her life which just goes to show how many hypocrites are out there . No one cares one bit about that woman just feigning it trying to be politically correct .
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 Actually its ruined her life which just goes to show how many hypocrites are out there . No one cares one bit about that woman just feigning it trying to be politically correct . I prefer to think it saved her life. If she really loves him, tney will work it out. A bit poorer, but for all the right reasons now.
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 What is the right reason? (I'm being a bit rhetorical with that). The reality is that the only reason they're dishing out any penalty at all is because of image. You may think it should be about whatever your sense of justice is, but as we've stated before, the societal mechanism to punish behavior is the court system. The only reason businesses have these kinds of policies is to protect their business interests. In this case they need to act as though they are doing something to battle domestic violence, (as though football has anything to do with domestic violence) to appease fans in order to avoid harming their brand (i.e. profitability), If they were doing it for some other reason, like some kind of activism, I would argue THAT was the wrong reason. Put differently, it's not an employer's responsibility or even place to police the morality of its employees. It is the employer's responsibility and place to protect its interests. I guess to clarify, you're right - it's all shades of the same reasons. But covering your ass in light of some botched PR is even more cynical than making that initial move to protect interests. And while no, football has little to do with domestic violence, again, if you're charged with (sometimes not even convicted of) a felony, your employer is definitely not always going to stand by you, no matter how publicly visible they are. And that's part PR / protecting interests, and part borne of the idea that you can't trust people who have committed serious crimes. Whether offenders, especially violent ones, can be reformed is another measure - and another issue that our criminal justice system gets wrong all the time. But then we're heading into another part of the board that I'm not interested in taking this to.
truth on hold Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 I prefer to think it saved her life. If she really loves him, tney will work it out. A bit poorer, but for all the right reasons now. you dont know that at all. The best gauge we outsiders have if this is good for her are her actions. She married him, and there are no further reported incidents since February. I could care less about Rice, but I feel sorry for this woman to be punished again like this.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 you dont know that at all. The best gauge we outsiders have if this is good for her are her actions. She married him, and there are no further reported incidents since February. I could care less about Rice, but I feel sorry for this woman to be punished again like this. Feel sorry for what... That she can't have millions. She married the guy, she has her happiness. Even better that she married him and loves him. Its not about the money, now they have to work at it. I hope they both have to struggle for money now, if it is all about love, they will overcome. Yes, he punched her. But it still takes two to tango.
RuntheDamnBall Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 Feel sorry for what... That she can't have millions. She married the guy, she has her happiness. Even better that she married him and loves him. Its not about the money, now they have to work at it. I hope they both have to struggle for money now, if it is all about love, they will overcome. Yes, he punched her. But it still takes two to tango. Anybody who has seen an abusive relationship up close knows that this is nonsense. Is it possible that Rice can reform himself? It's possible. They have a sh-t ton of stuff to work out, though, and there is a power dynamic that she will probably never fully be able to extricate herself from, no matter how contrite he is. "It takes two to tango" is circling back to the victim-blaming dumbassery that suggests she invited a lights out punch in an elevator. Was she physically involved in the altercation? No doubt. Is Ray Rice big and strong enough to control the situation without decking her? Yes, he is.
Captain Caveman Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 Goodell shouldn't be the one "in charge of a multi-billion dollar industry." That's the point you seem to be missing. The onus should be on the owners who pay the players. Not Goodell. Goodell is paid by the owners to do the "right" thing (y'know, for the league) even, or especially when it might go against the interest of a small group of owners.
MDH Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 you dont know that at all. The best gauge we outsiders have if this is good for her are her actions. She married him, and there are no further reported incidents since February. I could care less about Rice, but I feel sorry for this woman to be punished again like this. Yes, for the sake of the victim the perpetrator should go unpunished.
John in Jax Posted September 9, 2014 Posted September 9, 2014 Of course I agree that what Ray Rice did in this situation was way, WAY out of line, and that he actually should have been charged with a felony.......BUT, this notion that "no man should EVER strike a woman" is ridiculous. There are PLENTY of woman in this country who could absolutely beat their man to death, if they chose to do so. Not ALL men are bigger/stronger than their SO. What about if you're attacked by one, OR MORE, beefy, crazed women? Should you just curl up in a ball, and get kicked/punched to death? What if your woman has a knife, or any other potential deadly weapon, such as a fireplace stoker, an iron, etc., and she's coming at you in an emotion-filled, crazed rush? Yes, USUALLY, men should not have to escalate their defense to kicks and/or punches, but this is NOT always the case. Just being real here.
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