Fingon Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 Maybe it is time to set a new precedent? Hence the new rules.
Numark3 Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 Just so you know, you misunderstand my use of the word "intent" in the previous posts. I 100% agree with everything you wrote. The point you are missing about what I am saying is there is no court of law, no criminal trial, no legal charges. The NFL is not a court of law deciding on legal definitions of words and actions. They are making opinion based decisions based on what they believe the incident to be. And in this case, I don't see any evidence suggesting he intended to knock her out. Thats what the NFL is going to base this on given there are NO criminal charges to weigh. I'm going to drop the intent argument after this, but you are the only person who doesnt see that intent. The reason i brought up how civil or criminal courts view intent, is because that is the msot fair way to do it. How in the world you can watch that video and not comprehend that someone punching someone intends to cause harm (including knocking them out), is beyond me .
NoSaint Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 Cedric Benson got 3 games for assault in 2010, and Benson was a multiple time offender. He punched some bar employee the year before that and only got a warning from Goodell. He only received a suspension for the 3 games after he was convicted of beating up an ex-roommate. I would say Ray Rice's suspension is right where it should be based on precedent. Which is most likely why the NFL instituted their new rules. and if you want to change it, i understand why with a CBA and union involved and players facing potentially millions in fines you have to announce the shift as the nfl just did.
Gugny Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 Except, you know, for the part where he clocked her. I haven't watched the video. From what I've read, he swung in a "roundhouse" fashion. Is that the case?
Pondslider Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) Whether he slapped her or punched her is ridiculous and doesn't matter. Did he hit her? Yes. On purpose? Yup. Is that ok? No. Did he hit her hard enough that she fell and hit her head on a metal railing and was knocked unconscious? You betcha. Is alcohol ever an excuse for violence? Nope! In either video do we immediately see him on his phone to call an ambulance or showing really any concern whatsoever for her well-being? Nah. Are these the actions of a piece of ****? Absolutely. Does he have a right to continue to play in the NFL? Not at all. Edited September 8, 2014 by Pondslider
Numark3 Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) In case this what missed, here is the official statement from the nfl on the video: “We requested from law enforcement any and all information about the incident, including the video from inside the elevator. That video was not made available to us and no one in our office has seen it until today,” the league said in its statement. http://profootballta...eo-until-today/ Edited September 8, 2014 by Crayola64
Deranged Rhino Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 I haven't watched the video. From what I've read, he swung in a "roundhouse" fashion. Is that the case? He slaps her once then decks her when she charges.
billsfan1959 Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 Just so you know, you misunderstand my use of the word "intent" in the previous posts. I 100% agree with everything you wrote. The point you are missing about what I am saying is there is no court of law, no criminal trial, no legal charges. The NFL is not a court of law deciding on legal definitions of words and actions. They are making opinion based decisions based on what they believe the incident to be. And in this case, I don't see any evidence suggesting he intended to knock her out. Thats what the NFL is going to base this on given there are NO criminal charges to weigh. I think this is what we are having a difference with Alpha. We all know you are not defending him. My issue is twofold: 1) Your interpretation of the video does not seem to square with what most people see and 2) Your argument that there is no proof that he intended to knock her out should somehow make a difference in how Rice's actions should be judged. It doesn't.
Alphadawg7 Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 You keep talking about facts, the nfl just said they never saw the video until now... http://profootballta...eo-until-today/ And criminal charges dont matter to the nfl and they have already set that precedent. Maybe you should try to re-articulate what you mean, because no one understands you and you keep saying everyone is twisting what you say I don't believe the NFL never saw the tape. It was reported they did, now that its public they claim no because of public relations issues. I find it a stretch to say that TMZ can get the video and the NFL could not. And I know criminal charges don't matter, thats why they suspended him 2 games. If criminal charges mattered, he would have gotten no games. Again, I think the Ravens should cut him. I thought they should have when it first came out and I think they still should. I am just stating that I understand the ruling of two games by the NFL from their position based on the evidence of events. I am again, only defending the NFL here, and I do feel more action is needed, I just feel its the Ravens that should take it.
Mr. WEO Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 A bell hop said that. There is another source (albeit, pft) saying that Goodell had NOT seen this video. Was that "bellhop" you keep mentioning named "Peter King", because he reported on 7/29 that the NFL and the Ravens saw this elevator tape.
Deranged Rhino Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 I don't believe the NFL never saw the tape. I'm beginning to think you didn't see the tape. He hit her twice, not once. And the second hit was most definitely a punch.
Numark3 Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 (edited) I don't believe the NFL never saw the tape. It was reported they did, now that its public they claim no because of public relations issues. I find it a stretch to say that TMZ can get the video and the NFL could not. And I know criminal charges don't matter, thats why they suspended him 2 games. If criminal charges mattered, he would have gotten no games. Again, I think the Ravens should cut him. I thought they should have when it first came out and I think they still should. I am just stating that I understand the ruling of two games by the NFL from their position based on the evidence of events. I am again, only defending the NFL here, and I do feel more action is needed, I just feel its the Ravens that should take it. So now the NFL is liars, and you are the only person who has that opinion of the video (he didnt intend to knock her out. As if when you punch someone you get to choose how much damage is done and defend it). Only here at TBD boys and girls... Edited September 8, 2014 by Crayola64
1billsfan Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 Except, you know, for the part where he clocked her. Also, he keeps saying that he slapped her when the slow motion part (if you pause on the knockout hit) on the TMZ video looks exactly like a closed fist. A pro football player punching a woman in the head like Ray Rice did, is like an average man punching a defenseless child in the head. It doesn't matter what the person's head hit after the initial punch. This guy needs to quit defending this coward, it's embarrassing.
Captain Hindsight Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 Sounds like they may release him tonight. Big cap hit but they would finally be doing the right thing. I will always respect the pats for cutting bait with Hernandez after he was arrested. Cap implications be damned
Alphadawg7 Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 I'm going to drop the intent argument after this, but you are the only person who doesnt see that intent. The reason i brought up how civil or criminal courts view intent, is because that is the msot fair way to do it. How in the world you can watch that video and not comprehend that someone punching someone intends to cause harm (including knocking them out), is beyond me . Again, I am not saying he didn't intend to hit her or cause harm. I am saying I didn't see a moment of rage where he cold knocked her out. There is a difference in an authoritative or legal ruling. If and I get into a fist fight and I slip and fall and die, then that will be a completely different ruling than if you picked up a weapon and beat me to death. Both have penalties, one is more severe than the next. Again, he deserves punishment, even though there were no criminal charges. NFL gave him punishment. I actually agree he deserves more punishment and have said a dozen times the Ravens should cut him. I am just saying the NFL suspended him for two games, and based on the circumstances I don't see a reason to make the NFL the villain here.
Numark3 Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 Sounds like they may release him tonight. Big cap hit but they would finally be doing the right thing. I will always respect the pats for cutting bait with Hernandez after he was arrested. Cap implications be damned Well....he was going to jail lol
Deranged Rhino Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 Also, he keeps saying that he slapped her when the slow motion part (if you pause on the knockout hit) on the TMZ video looks exactly like a closed fist. A pro football player punching a woman in the head like Ray Rice did, is like an average man punching a defenseless child in the head. It doesn't matter what the person's head hit after the initial punch. This guy needs to quit defending this coward, it's embarrassing. Yeah. Rice slapped her when they first got on the lift, then clearly punched her as she charged. He used her momentum against her, the punch he delivered was right on the knockout button too. But that wasn't his intent because Alpha watched Ray's footwork.
Captain Hindsight Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 In case this what missed, here is the official statement from the nfl on the video: http://profootballta...eo-until-today/ I'm sure TMZ worked hard to get this but I doubt the NFL with their ex-CIA and FB staff couldn't get this video until now. Absolute horseshit
Alphadawg7 Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 So now the NFL is liars, and you are the only person who has that opinion of the video (he didnt intend to knock her out. As if when you punch someone you get to choose how much damage is done and defend it). Only here at TBD boys and girls... LOL...you mean this board who constantly claims the NFL has a conspiracy against the Bills, complains the NFL covered up the Pats, etc etc now is all of a sudden saying that the NFL are angels and wouldnt say something to help protect their public image on this?
Deranged Rhino Posted September 8, 2014 Posted September 8, 2014 Again, I am not saying he didn't intend to hit her or cause harm. I am saying I didn't see a moment of rage where he cold knocked her out. There is a difference in an authoritative or legal ruling. If and I get into a fist fight and I slip and fall and die, then that will be a completely different ruling than if you picked up a weapon and beat me to death. Both have penalties, one is more severe than the next. Again, he deserves punishment, even though there were no criminal charges. NFL gave him punishment. I actually agree he deserves more punishment and have said a dozen times the Ravens should cut him. I am just saying the NFL suspended him for two games, and based on the circumstances I don't see a reason to make the NFL the villain here. Then you didn't watch the video. He was clearly angry getting on the elevator, they were having words before the lift even arrived. As soon as they were alone he corners her, bumps her, then slaps her. THEN she charges. To say he wasn't angry is ridiculous. There's more visual evidence he was angry than there is that he was calm.
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