Okay...if not EJ, then who?

[3rdand12]

I read all this .

I got nuthin.

i will remain all in.

And carry my basket of eggs very gently

[Ted William's frozen head]

 

 

Or he was a rookie coming off injury?

Believe me. I will be sooo happy to be proven wrong.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Ted William's frozen head

[RevWarRifleman]

I kind of liked Kapernick (sp?) back a few years ago. Thought he had good size, strength, velocity on the ball, and could scramble. That's my 2 cents.

[Rocky Landing]

I was filling in your cherry pick of his two best games, as you know but chose to ignore. Anyway, EJ is an incredibly easy guy to root for, and i hope like crazy he succeeds, like everybody else here.

I saw bad games on EJ's part. But, I don't believe I saw fear, just inexperience, and inconsistency. Not the Trent Edwards, "holy crap, I've got 2.2 seconds to get rid of this ball before I get smashed" syndrome. (Which, IMO, was entirely understandable, considering our poor O-line, and worse coaching at the time.)

 

But, that's not really what this thread is about. If EJ doesn't finish the season, it won't likely be a result of poor play. It would be foolish and weird to assume that EJ will be worse this season, than last. If his play is the same this season as it was last season, I don't see him getting benched. He would have to be much worse (IMO) to get benched for the likes of Lewis, or Tuel. If he doesn't finish the season, it will be because of injury, at which point we will limp to the end of the season with Lewis, or Tuel- neither of whom are likely to be anything resembling a long term solution.

 

BUT:

If EJ has not progressed by season's end, or is (once again) sidelined by injury... what then?

Edited July 24, 2014 by Rocky Landing

[Tyrod's Tailor]

I saw bad games on EJ's part. But, I don't believe I saw fear, just inexperience, and inconsistency. Not the Trent Edwards, "holy crap, I've got 2.2 seconds to get rid of this ball before I get smashed" syndrome. (Which, IMO, was entirely understandable, considering our poor O-line, and worse coaching at the time.)

 

But, that's not really what this thread is about. If EJ doesn't finish the season, it won't likely be a result of poor play. It would be foolish and weird to assume that EJ will be worse this season, than last. If his play is the same this season as it was last season, I don't see him getting benched. He would have to be much worse (IMO) to get benched for the likes of Lewis, or Tuel. If he doesn't finish the season, it will be because of injury, at which point we will limp to the end of the season with Lewis, or Tuel- neither of whom are likely to be anything resembling a long term solution.

 

BUT:

If EJ has not progressed by season's end, or is (once again) sidelined by injury... what then?

 

Fair enough. As for what happens if EJ flops, we'll have a new owner, cap space, and a young & talented roster to sell to a veteran FA QB that might come available. Eli Manning? Jake Locker? Vick? Not wonderful options, but doesn't need to be an Arizona post Kurt Warner type disaster.

[....lybob]

Fair enough. As for what happens if EJ flops, we'll have a new owner, cap space, and a young & talented roster to sell to a veteran FA QB that might come available. Eli Manning? Jake Locker? Vick? Not wonderful options, but doesn't need to be an Arizona post Kurt Warner type disaster.

Those are pretty bad options I'd rather have E.J for a third season - I've heard some say we should have taken Alex Smith but while he had a good year last year (his 9th season) I'd like to remind people that he sucked for 4 season and finally made it to being mediocre in his 5th season.

[Rocky Landing]

Fair enough. As for what happens if EJ flops, we'll have a new owner, cap space, and a young & talented roster to sell to a veteran FA QB that might come available. Eli Manning? Jake Locker? Vick? Not wonderful options, but doesn't need to be an Arizona post Kurt Warner type disaster.

About fifteen years ago, a good friend of mine (Mike) bought a really beautiful, 1950's Nash Rambler. It leaked oil like a sieve. The first thing he did was to give it a gorgeous, and expensive paint job- a move that I criticized as foolish and backwards. On the second day that he had it back from the body shop, we stopped at a friend's house. Mike wanted to check the oil. He opened the hood, and pulled out the dipstick.

 

"Down two quarts, already," he complained.

 

As he lowered the dipstick in despair, the end of it touched the positive battery terminal which caused a bright, and loud spark. The spark was significant enough that it caused us both to take a couple steps back. Which was fortunate, because about nine seconds later, the engine blew sky high, the car ignited, and it burned to a smelly, black pile of slag right there in the driveway.

 

If EJ craps out, that is what it is going to feel like.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Rocky Landing

[Tyrod's Tailor]

About fifteen years ago, a good friend of mine (Mike) bought a really beautiful, 1950's Nash Rambler. It leaked oil like a sieve. The first thing he did was to give it a gorgeous, and expensive paint job- a move that I criticized as foolish and backwards. On the second day that he had it back from the body shop, we stopped at a friend's house. Mike wanted to check the oil. He opened the hood, and pulled out the dipstick.

 

"Down two quarts, already," he complained.

 

As he lowered the dipstick in despair, the end of it touched the positive battery terminal which caused a bright, and loud spark. The spark was significant enough that it caused us both to take a couple steps back. Which was fortunate, because about nine seconds later, the engine blew sky high, the car ignited, and it burned to a smelly, black pile of slag right there in the driveway.

 

If EJ craps out, that is what it is going to feel like.

 

 

 

 

Hard to disagree

[John Adams]

EJ looked "Trent Edwards" terrified by the end of the season.

 

You're as wrong as Promo.

[RyanC883]

This is a good post. With the other talent on this team, EJ needs to be simply average. If they can stop the run, and run the ball, the passing game should be wide open. If EJ does not pan out, draft someone next year but by all means bring in a FA QB who can play with the talent (CJ, Williams, Watkins, etc) around him.

 

Fair enough. As for what happens if EJ flops, we'll have a new owner, cap space, and a young & talented roster to sell to a veteran FA QB that might come available. Eli Manning? Jake Locker? Vick? Not wonderful options, but doesn't need to be an Arizona post Kurt Warner type disaster.

 

I'd take Manning or Vick. Locker scares me a bit. Not sure he's much of an improvement.

[Deranged Rhino]

In theory, you're correct. But I think that's what jw was alluding to about EJ needing to take the next step. If he's hesitant to make that intermediate throw, the defenses will adjust and take away the run.

 

The team is built for the playoffs, but it will still depend on the QB.

 

I hear you, I do. I guess I just think the running game, even with teams stacking the box, is going to be even better than last year simply due to the spacing and CJ being healthy (as well as the team overall being healthier offensively). The run blocking talent (I think) has been improved, though they are unproven so time will tell there. The defense is going to take a step forward with Gilmore having two hands and Mario being 100% and is going to win a game or two by its lonesome this year.

 

There's no way this team can contend for a title without EJ taking a gigantic step forward -- you're absolutely right about that. But this team isn't ready for a title yet, what they need is a taste of the playoffs this year to wet their beaks and open their championship window. If EJ can put up the same numbers even from last year -- but do so without missing time -- it really should be enough to get 9 wins. A baby step forward from him gets the team closer to 11.

[John Adams]

This is a good post. With the other talent on this team, EJ needs to be simply average. If they can stop the run, and run the ball, the passing game should be wide open. If EJ does not pan out, draft someone next year but by all means bring in a FA QB who can play with the talent (CJ, Williams, Watkins, etc) around him.

 

 

 

I'd take Manning or Vick. Locker scares me a bit. Not sure he's much of an improvement.

 

Eli Manning wouldn't last 1 second as a free agent. He's not his brother but he's still got game. If the a Bills had a shot at him and didn't take it, it would be criminal.

[zow2]

WGR this morning keeps saying how unimpressive EJ looks in camp so far. What exactly is he not doing right? I'm not following everything going on in camp and I can't get there this year. I'm rooting for the guy but honestly, what i saw last year in the games I attended was nothing too good. He needs to create more explosive downfield plays, be decisive, more accurate and obviously improve his 3rd down efficiency. Not sure he has it in him.

[Kellyto83TD]

I don't know but from camp reports EJ Still doesn't get it. I doubt he had 'it' to begin with. I think we are scrambling to find a QB next year

 

WGR this morning keeps saying how unimpressive EJ looks in camp so far. What exactly is he not doing right? I'm not following everything going on in camp and I can't get there this year. I'm rooting for the guy but honestly, what i saw last year in the games I attended was nothing too good. He needs to create more explosive downfield plays, be decisive, more accurate and obviously improve his 3rd down efficiency. Not sure he has it in him.

 

Missing WR's, and as usual slow with his reads and not making good reads. The knock on him out of college is he was slow with reads and needed wide open WR's. Sorry that doesnt' cut it in the NFL

[BarleyNY]

If not EJ, then I think were would have been looking at either Ebron or Beckham at 9, then would have been trading up for either Manziel or Bridgewater. Last year would have been tough unless a trade would have netted someone to hold the QB fort down. I agreed with taking Manuel, but it was more a case of him having potential and not being Geno Smith than loving him as a prospect. I hope he blossoms, but if he doesn't then we move on.

[ALF]

EJ is a work in progress who needs a expert QB coach . All his physical gifts and determination he is well worth staying with however long it takes. A good OL and running game will get him off to a better start this year. I still hate losing coach Joe D' to SD.

[thebandit27]

I preface all of my comments by saying that while I'm an EJ fan, I'm by no means convinced he'll be the guy for the franchise moving forward. I think he has the physical ability, intelligence, and work ethic (a lot of guys do); it remains to be seen if he can put it all together.

 

We reached for a third round quarterback who played like a third round quarterback. EJ looked "Trent Edwards" terrified by the end of the season.

 

That's not a fair assessment at all IMO. He may not have been polished, but "terrified" never presented itself in any way from what I saw. As for your first sentence, there was at least one other team that would've taken him in the first round--2 if certain reports are to be believed.

 

Well...................it really isn't. Once teams had film on EJ, he became very predictable. I was very encouraged by EJ early on. Once he got hurt, hurt again, hurt again, he started to look, and play like Trent Edwards during his free fall decline. I wish EJ all of the success in the world. I just don't see it happenin'.......

 

I could buy that if two of his better games--Jacksonville and the second Jets game, didn't come later in the season. For me, the Jax game was a big deal, as he was coming off such a horrid performance against TB, and his first quarter against the Jags went so poorly (0-4 with an INT).

 

To have him come back and finish the game 17-20 for 150 yds (that's a solid 7.5 YPA) with 2 TDs/0 INTS plus a rushing TD was huge; that tells me that he's plenty mentally tough--speaks to the opposite of fear IMO. Know what I mean?

 

Tampa Bay and Pittsburgh were 2 awful ones, but your cable must have gone out for those.

 

Awful, putrid, horrible. It's worth noting that he followed each of those games with solid performances too. You're a smart fan, you know you have to take the good with the bad when it comes to a rookie QB.

 

So the rookie QB was good and bad. That's hardly news. Good and good is Andrew Luck (and even he was less than perfect) and he's a generational type of talent. I'm not saying EJ is going to be the guy, I'm just saying that nothing so far has been too surprising. And my fingers are crossed. I've read some play by play stuff from camp, but how does he really look? Is he any more accurate than last year? It's too soon to matter, I guess, but I'd love some reassurance (even if it may be false).

 

Love this post.

 

I've told many folks on this board time and again to compare Luck's and EJ's rookie numbers just for fun...you'd be shocked at how eerily similar they are if you haven't done so...

[Best Player Available]

I don't know but from camp reports EJ Still doesn't get it. I doubt he had 'it' to begin with. I think we are scrambling to find a QB next year

 

 

 

For the time being it is hard to argue this comment above. It does not make a fan a hater, it does not mean the post is negative. Like 83's comment it's an opinion I happen and others tend to agree with. I hope the kid can stay upright and pull out 10 wins. Right now that seems like a huge, possibly unattainable challenge.

 

No one likes the talking heads for the most part, and Polian certainly falls in the what have you done lately category. But, when EJ was picked he was a little in shock because it was the 16 th pick of the first round. very few people anywhere said it was a smart pick or a steal. I am sure Nix had his reasons but judging all of the bIlls QB's under any regime since Polian the kid was labelled by even the biggest supporters that he was raw and needed time. yet, he is thrown to the wolves. With no one on the roster to challenge even remotely. its hard to identify another NFL team going this route with the QB position. certainly none of the successful habitual playoff teams.

 

last season plan B which was very weak and crashed (Kolb).Well, at least there was a plan B. This year there is no plan B period. It will bite this team and hard. The coaching staff is suspect itself.but you cannot teach a QB accuracy in year 2 in the NFL. That happens at a early age, you can tweak things but EJ showed zero confidence on any sideline or deep pass, and checked down all year long. Some of the early camp criticism is very close to last seasons. So at this time seems to be no improvement. Is it by design? Doubtful. Watkins may have to play at a all world level, to give this team even a remote chance to break out of the 6-10 rut.

 

Why OBD refuses to sign a veteran or didn't draft any serious competition this past draft is troubling. there were potential starters sitting there in rounds 4 and 5. No worse than what is on the roster today, at least the backups. if you look at your QB as a team leader, then why do the bIlls coddle their egos like fragile baby's with no competition? How did that work out with Fitz? has it ever worked anywhere? I don't know.

 

The kid wants to win, he does and says the right things. Thad was exciting to watch and had no fear of throwing deep last year. he is not the answer. Tuel, on any team but the bIlls would be nothing more than camp fodder. The Bills have gone about this with their were smarter than everyone else approach yet again. It has never worked once to date. i think it will crash and burn like it always does. But, I will enjoy eating crow if my thoughts are wrong on EJ. he should be riding the pine, he is not NFL ready. he may never be. Who's up next? Well it appears that player is not on the roster today.

[thebandit27]

For the time being it is hard to argue this comment above. It does not make a fan a hater, it does not mean the post is negative. Like 83's comment it's an opinion I happen and others tend to agree with. I hope the kid can stay upright and pull out 10 wins. Right now that seems like a huge, possibly unattainable challenge.

 

No one likes the talking heads for the most part, and Polian certainly falls in the what have you done lately category. But, when EJ was picked he was a little in shock because it was the 16 th pick of the first round. very few people anywhere said it was a smart pick or a steal. I am sure Nix had his reasons but judging all of the bIlls QB's under any regime since Polian the kid was labelled by even the biggest supporters that he was raw and needed time. yet, he is thrown to the wolves. With no one on the roster to challenge even remotely. its hard to identify another NFL team going this route with the QB position. certainly none of the successful habitual playoff teams.

 

last season plan B which was very weak and crashed (Kolb).Well, at least there was a plan B. This year there is no plan B period. It will bite this team and hard. The coaching staff is suspect itself.but you cannot teach a QB accuracy in year 2 in the NFL. That happens at a early age, you can tweak things but EJ showed zero confidence on any sideline or deep pass, and checked down all year long. Some of the early camp criticism is very close to last seasons. So at this time seems to be no improvement. Is it by design? Doubtful. Watkins may have to play at a all world level, to give this team even a remote chance to break out of the 6-10 rut.

 

Why OBD refuses to sign a veteran or didn't draft any serious competition this past draft is troubling. there were potential starters sitting there in rounds 4 and 5. No worse than what is on the roster today, at least the backups. if you look at your QB as a team leader, then why do the bIlls coddle their egos like fragile baby's with no competition? How did that work out with Fitz? has it ever worked anywhere? I don't know.

 

The kid wants to win, he does and says the right things. Thad was exciting to watch and had no fear of throwing deep last year. he is not the answer. Tuel, on any team but the bIlls would be nothing more than camp fodder. The Bills have gone about this with their were smarter than everyone else approach yet again. It has never worked once to date. i think it will crash and burn like it always does. But, I will enjoy eating crow if my thoughts are wrong on EJ. he should be riding the pine, he is not NFL ready. he may never be. Who's up next? Well it appears that player is not on the roster today.

 

I feel like that's a common misconception. What cannot be taught is arm strength and intelligence....accuracy is a matter of sound mechanics (both upper and lower body) and timing.

 

The shining example of teaching accuracy is--and likely will always be--Drew Brees (although I suppose one could make the argument for Alex Smith to a degree). The quantum leap in accuracy and efficiency from year 3 to year 4 is due almost exclusively to rigorous dedication to fixing flawed mechanics. It's worth noting, as you seem to understand, that this did not happen overnight. He was relentless in his pursuit of improvement, and it paid off over time. Now, he did make a noted increase in effort once Rivers was drafted, seeking out throwing mechanics gurus like Jim Brogan and Tom House.

 

Point is, more than a few guys have worked through accuracy issues to go on to have productive (even great) careers. Whether or not EJ can do the same is a question of repetition, muscle memory, and long-term dedication.

[RuntheDamnBall]

For the time being it is hard to argue this comment above. It does not make a fan a hater, it does not mean the post is negative. Like 83's comment it's an opinion I happen and others tend to agree with. I hope the kid can stay upright and pull out 10 wins. Right now that seems like a huge, possibly unattainable challenge.

 

No one likes the talking heads for the most part, and Polian certainly falls in the what have you done lately category. But, when EJ was picked he was a little in shock because it was the 16 th pick of the first round. very few people anywhere said it was a smart pick or a steal. I am sure Nix had his reasons but judging all of the bIlls QB's under any regime since Polian the kid was labelled by even the biggest supporters that he was raw and needed time. yet, he is thrown to the wolves. With no one on the roster to challenge even remotely. its hard to identify another NFL team going this route with the QB position. certainly none of the successful habitual playoff teams.

 

last season plan B which was very weak and crashed (Kolb).Well, at least there was a plan B. This year there is no plan B period. It will bite this team and hard. The coaching staff is suspect itself.but you cannot teach a QB accuracy in year 2 in the NFL. That happens at a early age, you can tweak things but EJ showed zero confidence on any sideline or deep pass, and checked down all year long. Some of the early camp criticism is very close to last seasons. So at this time seems to be no improvement. Is it by design? Doubtful. Watkins may have to play at a all world level, to give this team even a remote chance to break out of the 6-10 rut.

 

Why OBD refuses to sign a veteran or didn't draft any serious competition this past draft is troubling. there were potential starters sitting there in rounds 4 and 5. No worse than what is on the roster today, at least the backups. if you look at your QB as a team leader, then why do the bIlls coddle their egos like fragile baby's with no competition? How did that work out with Fitz? has it ever worked anywhere? I don't know.

 

The kid wants to win, he does and says the right things. Thad was exciting to watch and had no fear of throwing deep last year. he is not the answer. Tuel, on any team but the bIlls would be nothing more than camp fodder. The Bills have gone about this with their were smarter than everyone else approach yet again. It has never worked once to date. i think it will crash and burn like it always does. But, I will enjoy eating crow if my thoughts are wrong on EJ. he should be riding the pine, he is not NFL ready. he may never be. Who's up next? Well it appears that player is not on the roster today.

It's fine to have opinions, but I think basing your opinions on camp reports is like depending on a secondary source for your news or your historical information. It's always filtered and hence up for debate. Seeing things with your own eyes and identifying them holds much more weight. I think you show some nuance in your perspective, even if it tends negative. Others don't, and are just going to come here with all the reasons they think EJ sucks. They will disappear or change their tune if he plays well, and they will reappear when he struggles.

 

I base my opinions on those of people who break down the film or the All-22 shots, and those have generally been mixed for EJ. He's shown ups and downs, which is consistent with the idea that he was not meant to be thrown into the fire last year, and that he was going to take some time to develop.

 

I agree with you that there should be a better plan B, and that Kolb was a shaky one at best.