Okay...if not EJ, then who?

[PromoTheRobot]

So having EJ and absolutely no one else behind him is a great plan, but New England is playing with fire. Got it.

 

Thad Lewis is behind him. He's done more than Jiminy Cricket for the Pats.

 

In 2012 the Redskins drafted RG3 with the 2nd overall pick. With an early 4th round pick they took Kirk Cousins and now it seem they have a pretty good insurance policy in case RG3 does a repeat of last year. If RG3 returns to form this season, then the Skins can probably get a first our early 2nd for Cousins.

 

There are ways to prepare for a QB not performing up to expectations.

 

In this year's draft there were some very good mid round prospects that the Bills should have taken a crack at. Aaron Murray went in the 5th, AJ McCarron went in the 5th, Zach Mettenberger went in the 6th round. Why not take a shot at someone just in case EJ fails this season? Then at least you have someone with potential who has been in the system for a year. To me EJ looked very shaky in year one and not having a plan B is a big mistake by Whaley.

 

But why are Mettenberger and McCarron better? Because you heard of them? That's my point. You can draft anyone you want. That doesn't make them better than EJ. You may think they will be but there is no proof they will be.

[Bangarang]

 

 

Thad Lewis is behind him. He's done more than Jiminy Cricket for the Pats.

 

 

 

But why are Mettenberger and McCarron better? Because you heard of them? That's my point. You can draft anyone you want. That doesn't make them better than EJ. You may think they will be but there is no proof they will be.

 

You can't say they are better because they have yet to play in the NFL. However, it's not silly to think that you can take a guy who has shown talent and ability to play QB in the mid rounds and try to further develop that talent.

 

Worst case scenario is the guys fizzles out and you burned a mid round pick. Best case scenario is he flourishes and either becomes your starter or you flip him for picks because you don't need him.

 

There are merits to both sides of this argument.

[bills-fan in arizona]

They should have taken an insurance QB in the mid round this year. There where plenty available and I think it was a huge mistake for them not to take one. Say for example EJ fails this year and we end up 4-12. With no 1st round next year we are in big trouble. Taking a mid round this year... well at least we'd have something going into 2015 (if EJ fails of course.)

[Fan in Chicago]

Nassib? Bridgewater? Geno Smith? Would you be any more optimistic with these QBs on the Bills right now instead of EJ? To me EJ was the best from an apparently weak class. But also keep in mind that 80% of Bills fans wanted a QB taken in 2013.

 

So the Bills got EJ and the feeling was that at least the Bills are taking a shot. We even got EJ plus Kiko by trading down. But a year later and good feelings are gone. What if we waited till 2014? No Sammy but Manziel at 9? Bortles? Would we be any more guaranteed success with those guys?

 

My point is the Bills really didn't have much choice but take EJ and go all in with him. There was no other QB that was a consensus franchise player in either the 2013 or 2014 draft. Would you have stuck with Fitz for two more years? Sign a free agent? If so, who? Vick? Freeman? Sanchez? How about any QB from this list of 2013 free agents?

 

Again, not only was there no sure bets at QB in either draft, there was no quality free agent QBs to sign in 2013 or 2014 either. So it was going to EJ any way you slice it.

 

PTR

 

Last year, pre-draft, I was strongly in favor of getting Alex Smith and getting atleast an average, proven, low-risk QB in the short term. Then the pressure would have been off to draft a QB high and taken whoever the FO thought had the most upside in last year or this year's draft. I still think that would have been the best solution for the Bills.

[Buftex]

They should have taken an insurance QB in the mid round this year. There where plenty available and I think it was a huge mistake for them not to take one. Say for example EJ fails this year and we end up 4-12. With no 1st round next year we are in big trouble. Taking a mid round this year... well at least we'd have something going into 2015 (if EJ fails of course.)

 

Yeah, that is just more of the same kind of thinking. Do you really think there was any "mid-round" prospect in the 2014 draft that would be markedly better than Thad Lewis with a couple seasons in the NFL, a full season in Buffalo, one training camp in Buffalo (people tend to forget Lewis didn't have the benefit of a Bills training camp in 2013), and 6 starts under his belt? Who did you have in mind? Whatever your answer, are you sure that QB would give you a better shot at winning than Lewis would?

 

Also, the "with no 1st round pick in 2015" just in case EJ fails thing, is kind of faulty too... if it is clear that EJ is not the QB of the Bills future after the 2014 season (personally, I think he would have to regress a ton this season for the Bills to come to that conclusion..he gets 3 seasons, unless he is horribly injured), the Bills can still take that "mid-round" QB next season, that you think will be a cure all this season...you see what I am saying? Franchise QB's are hard to come by....for most teams... more will fail than succeed. If the Bills fall into the trap of simply chasing a QB in the draft every time, they won't get anywhere...remember, JP Losman? First round pick, replaced by that "mid-round QB" drafted 3 years later, Trent Edwards?

 

I suspect, barring some crazy moves by a new owner, if EJ fails, the next Bills long-term starting QB will be the best free-agent QB available in the 2016 off-season.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Buftex

[Tyrod's Tailor]

Last year, pre-draft, I was strongly in favor of getting Alex Smith and getting atleast an average, proven, low-risk QB in the short term. Then the pressure would have been off to draft a QB high and taken whoever the FO thought had the most upside in last year or this year's draft. I still think that would have been the best solution for the Bills.

 

Smith in addition to big contract would cost Bills Woods and Kouandjo. Would you still do it? I go back and forth...

[section122]

Smith in addition to big contract would cost Bills Woods and Kouandjo. Would you still do it? I go back and forth...

Not only that (no I wouldn't I belive in EJ) but the Bills DID try to get him. KC's pick was higher in the second round and that is why the niners traded him there or at least that is my fuzzy memory of the situation.

Edited July 23, 2014 by section122

[Manther]

I would say Russell Wilson going in the 3rd round means he was nowhere near an obvious pick. If he were obvious he'd have gone in the first round. But if you want to play the "who got picked next" game then yeah TJ instead of Wilson hurts, as does Troup instead of Gronk.

I think Gronk and Wilson have the same thing in common. They were both 1st round talents with questions mark. Gronk's injuries and Wilson's height. The further a first round talent falls the easier it is to overlook their weaknesses or take more risk on the possibility of failure.

 

Anyone can say I told you so way after the fact. But, at the time I thought Wilson was worth the risk of a 3rd rounder ESPECIALLY considering we didn't have a backup QB on the team It was the perfect place to take a shot.

 

Hindsight is 20/20.

 

All that said, I think EJ will pan out and the Bills did make the best QB pick they could have since Wilson. Dalton was a question mark the size of Wilson, but, was taken in the 2nd round. Kap was less of a question mark than Dalton. I would have been fine with that pick over Aaron Williams. I also remember the Aaron Williams draft slot seemed to be highly conveying to trade into for other teams.

 

Last thought, in order to take the QB you want based on where they SHOULD go on draft boards you typically need to take them a full round earlier. That is why EJ was drafted where he should have been and the same with many QB's and Wilson was a steal because he had no business going in the 4th round (opposed to be rated in the 4th and taken in the 3rd).

 

JMHO

[PromoTheRobot]

You can't say they are better because they have yet to play in the NFL. However, it's not silly to think that you can take a guy who has shown talent and ability to play QB in the mid rounds and try to further develop that talent.

 

Worst case scenario is the guys fizzles out and you burned a mid round pick. Best case scenario is he flourishes and either becomes your starter or you flip him for picks because you don't need him.

 

There are merits to both sides of this argument.

 

All you are doing is yanking the arm of a slot machine doing that. The Bills have that kind of QB in Thad Lewis.

[Bangarang]

 

 

All you are doing is yanking the arm of a slot machine doing that. The Bills have that kind of QB in Thad Lewis.

 

Like I said, there are merits to both sides of this debate.

 

It's largely, if not completely, dependent on coaching staff and management.

 

Some might feel its worth taking a flyer on a guy to develop and others might prefer to stick with a veteran backup only.

 

Nobody is wrong really and I can see why either side thinks the way they do.

 

Bottom line is that Marrone and Whaley have tied their jobs to EJ's wagon and it either works out this season or we replace everyone when new ownership is established in a few months.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Bangarang

[DirtDart]

There is a certain type of fan who seems to believe there is an orchard which has a Quarterback Tree, and when you need one, why you just go pick one off the limb. And this certain type of fan then feels free to excoriate management, coaches, anyone and everyone if that fresh-picked QB isn't "The One."

 

Your assessment is exactly correct, the Bills needed a QB and EJ was the best of the available bunch. And the Bills FO was very upfront about how he projected, clearly stating that he had a ton of talent but needed a ton of work. There was no intent to start him until the middle of the season at the very earliest, and probably not for a season or two. You know, the way it used to be done in the NFL.

 

So, a still-not-quite-ready QB was forced into action, with predictable results. What I'd ask the nay-sayers to do is to stop viewing EJ as a completed project who hasn't lived up to expectations and should thus be jettisoned. Instead think of him as a work in progress who, because of Kolb's injuries, is actually ahead of the projected learning curve. And for the upcoming season, look for a good bit of progress but still with much room for improvement. And if he regresses, the Bills can always go out to the orchard and pick another QB off the tree.

 

Woaaaahhh, Yung quit injecting sense into your post. I agree 100%. EJ is exactly what he was projected as, a big strong, armed athletic project. He will be fine, it may mean we wont win the superbowl this year, but we will see a lot of improvement , IF he can stay healthy. And some think Vick, or Sanchez would have been the answer? Why must the sky always be falling in Buffalo?

Edited July 23, 2014 by DirtDart

[QCity]

The Bills have that kind of QB in Thad Lewis.

 

You think we can flip Thad Lewis for picks??

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Let's give in to the idea for a moment that EJ isn't the guy. Did the Bills miss an opportunity with another QB? Listening to Schopp pretty much throw EJ (and Marrone for that matter) under the bus today, I started thinking about what other options there were in 2013 and 2014.

 

Nassib? Bridgewater? Geno Smith? Would you be any more optimistic with these QBs on the Bills right now instead of EJ? To me EJ was the best from an apparently weak class. But also keep in mind that 80% of Bills fans wanted a QB taken in 2013.

 

So the Bills got EJ and the feeling was that at least the Bills are taking a shot. We even got EJ plus Kiko by trading down. But a year later and good feelings are gone. What if we waited till 2014? No Sammy but Manziel at 9? Bortles? Would we be any more guaranteed success with those guys?

 

My point is the Bills really didn't have much choice but take EJ and go all in with him. There was no other QB that was a consensus franchise player in either the 2013 or 2014 draft. Would you have stuck with Fitz for two more years? Sign a free agent? If so, who? Vick? Freeman? Sanchez? How about any QB from this list of 2013 free agents?

 

Again, not only was there no sure bets at QB in either draft, there was no quality free agent QBs to sign in 2013 or 2014 either. So it was going to EJ any way you slice it.

 

PTR

 

Could have Taken Glennon or Foles ....

 

We are going to slog through this and next year and go we need a QB in 2016 and hopefully we get Christian Hackenberg.

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

As a person who's seen what's happened in Cleveland the last 15 years first hand, this is dangerous thinking. Only if EJ is horrifically bad over at least 6 games should they think about benching him when healthy. Especially without a first rounder next year. I certainly hope it doesn't come to this.

+ 1

[simpleman]

No team has a plan B for every position. Even QB. What's the Pats plan B for Brady? Also are you saying you'd rather have Geno Smith over EJ? The Geno Smith with 21 INTs, 4 fumbles and a 55.8% comp pct?

 

Too many Smith's. No, I meant signing Alex Smith as a short term solution till the Bill's found a QB to develop. He is solid and a team could have been built and developed around him so that when the Bill's finally pulled the trigger on a real franchise potential QB, instead of ANY of the questionable QB picks last year the players would be in place around him on offense to allow the Bills to ease him into the lineup and not throw him to the wolves in desperation. I'm not saying the Bill's should not have picked EJ, he was the best of the litter of QB runts last year. They were all runts and they got the best looking of the batch, just that they all were runts after all, and they picked one too high. As others have posted, the differences in opinion is would A Smith have been worth the cost. I am one who thinks he was. And if the Bills had waited until the 2nd round or made that 2nd trade down that year before picking EJ, they still might have had Woods or better and Kiko. They might have still gotten EJ, we will never know. And who knows, maybe we would have not given up our 1st next year in another desperate gamble to help justify the questionable EJ pick in an attempt to make it look better.

[Dorkington]

I think we missed out on opportunities because of the contract we gave Fitz. Then we scrambled and reached a bit for EJ. EJ was the best option when we drafted, but it was a weak QB year, it appears.

 

For better or worse, we have EJ until the 2016 draft. Until then, I'll be rooting for him to succeed, and hopefully he does.

 

Edit: Adding... Since we don't have a FIRST ROUND draft pick until 2016, and we're likely not to bring in a sure thing QB in FA. I hope EJ gets every first team snap while healthy. Give him every opportunity for three years, and see what happens. It's not guaranteed success, but it's our best shot.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Dorkington

[YoloinOhio]

I think we missed out on opportunities because of the contract we gave Fitz. Then we scrambled and reached a bit for EJ. EJ was the best option when we drafted, but it was a weak QB year, it appears.

 

For better or worse, we have EJ until the 2016 draft. Until then, I'll be rooting for him to succeed, and hopefully he does.

 

Edit: Adding... Since we don't have a draft pick until 2016, and we're likely not to bring in a sure thing QB in FA. I hope EJ gets every first team snap while healthy. Give him every opportunity for three years, and see what happens. It's not guaranteed success, but it's our best shot.

There will be QBs available to draft in the 2nd rd. next year. Just sayin. I don't think they will take one. But they could. Edited July 23, 2014 by YoloinOhio

[JohnC]

 

 

I would say Russell Wilson going in the 3rd round means he was nowhere near an obvious pick. If he were obvious he'd have gone in the first round. But if you want to play the "who got picked next" game then yeah TJ instead of Wilson hurts, as does Troup instead of Gronk.

 

With EJ you can at least say that you are drafting on potential. Troup was an undersized nose tackle who had back problems in college. There were plenty of bulky NTs in the draft available in the lower rounds who could have adequately filled the role of space eater. If Nix was so inexplicably enamored with Troup he could have been available in a lower round. The best part of the Nix era is that it is over. He was an adequate scout who was in over his head as a GM. The transition to Whaley represents an archaic organization coming into the modern era.

 

By no means am I giving up on Manuel. He was never going to be an immediate finished product. He was a raw prospect who needed some time to develop. In my view the best approach is to keep the offense relatively simple and have a good running game. He has explosive players in Watkins, Williams, Goodwin and Spiller. If he can get the ball in their hands that will put him in a better position to succeed.

Edited July 23, 2014 by JohnC

[PromoTheRobot]

There will be QBs available to draft in the 2nd rd. next year. Just sayin. I don't think they will take one. But they could.

There are QBs available in every round of every draft. The question is are they any good?

 

Edited July 23, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

let me dust this one off

 

The Chroise

 

j/k