billsfan1959 Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Cheap delivery maybe but I think its a fair dig. How many starting nfl qbs never even led a team to a bowl game? Fitz? And fitz had a conference championship. While I don't expect him to be a national champion.... at 4-22 he didn't have enough wins in his career to be bowl eligible in a single season. I think that's got to be a major red flag. With all due respect, I do not think it is a fair dig. Tuel played on AWFUL teams with almost historically bad offensive lines. Tuel took an absolute beating when he played, and, when he wasn't taking a beating, he was running for his life. Consequently, after his freshmen year, when he wasn't out with an injury, he was playing injured. Add to that, the changes in coaches and offensive philosophies. Good quarterbacks can elevate the play of average to above average teams. Very few QBs can elevate the play of very bad teams. I seriously doubt that even the best college QBs would have won many more games with those teams than Tuel did. Again, I have no idea if he will ever be anything more than a 2nd or 3rd string NFL QB; however, this idea that his total wins in college are relevant in any way, IMHO, is not valid, given the talent of the teams he played on. In truth, I actually think Tuel will beat out Lewis for the backup spot. Edited July 23, 2014 by billsfan1959
YoloinOhio Posted July 23, 2014 Author Posted July 23, 2014 This poll is much closer race than I anticipated. #tueltime
Tyrod's Tailor Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 This poll is much closer race than I anticipated. #tueltime One write-in vote for Billy Joe Hobert here.
NoSaint Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 With all due respect, I do not think it is a fair dig. Tuel played on AWFUL teams with almost historically bad offensive lines. Tuel took an absolute beating when he played, and, when he wasn't taking a beating, he was running for his life. Consequently, after his freshmen year, when he wasn't out with an injury, he was playing injured. Add to that, the changes in coaches and offensive philosophies. Good quarterbacks can elevate the play of average to above average teams. Very few QBs can elevate the play of very bad teams. I seriously doubt that even the best college QBs would have won many more games with those teams than Tuel did. Again, I have no idea if he will ever be anything more than a 2nd or 3rd string NFL QB; however, this idea that his total wins in college are relevant in any way, IMHO, is not valid, given the talent of the teams he played on. In truth, I actually think Tuel will beat out Lewis for the backup spot. I understand that he wasn't on a good team but if he was a solid starting college qb with an nfl future you'd hope he'd have stolen victory from a few more below average teams. I don't expect him to will victories against Stanford by himself but 4-22 is bad. Qb is the biggest difference maker out there and if you have a positive talent differential there it should carry you against lower tier teams somewhat consistently. Part of being THAT bad as a team falls on the qb. He may not be solely responsible but he had a hand in it and there's no way around that.
maddenboy Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 As phrased, I hope TUEL wins the job. More upside. I like that he goes out there to throw the ball, instead of waiting to make the perfect read. Give the playmakers a chance to make plays. Lewis is okay in this area too, with EJ a distant 3rd. But if I had to fill out the roster today, I would choose Lewis, because Tuel hasnt won it yet. Thad for now is 2nd string and Jeff is doing what he is supposed to do...pushing to move up the depth chart. Ain't nothing wrong with that. My biggest beef is why isn't Thad pushing EJ? Perhaps Thad doesn't want it bad enough. We'll have to see. I like a good competition. Yes. Spot on, sir.
You herd it hear last Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Do we keep 3 QB's this year? or 2 and an emergency + Thad/Tuel's phone number on speed dial?
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Do we keep 3 QB's this year? or 2 and an emergency + Thad/Tuel's phone number on speed dial? I think they have to keep 3.
QCity Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Do we keep 3 QB's this year? or 2 and an emergency + Thad/Tuel's phone number on speed dial? If we keep 2 and bring back Brad Smith, it would be like getting an extra roster spot. Plus Hackett could draw up some Wildcat formations.
You herd it hear last Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 If we keep 2 and bring back Brad Smith, it would be like getting an extra roster spot. Plus Hackett could draw up some Wildcat formations. Is cost an issue with Thad? Is he hitting any vet minimums that would factor into their decision to keep one or the other for the short term? Probably peanuts in the grand scheme but I know he's been in the league a little longer of the two.
DJasper Probincrux III Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 The most popular person in Buffalo is ALWAYS the backup Quarterback.
You herd it hear last Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 I think they have to keep 3. Bellychicken might be keeping a roster spot open for one of the castoffs, if not.
#34fan Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) It's all or nothing with Tuel... He'll give you a great game one day, then lay eggs the following week. I like Jeff Tuel... I hope he develops... Unfortunately Lewis IS the better athlete. He's actually come thhrough in a pinch, and won us games. There's no debate. Thad Lewis, hands down. Edited July 23, 2014 by #34fan
You herd it hear last Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 It's all or nothing with Tuel... He'll give you a great game one day, then lay eggs the following week. I like the Tuel... I hope he develops... Unfortunately Lewis IS the better athlete. He's actually come thhrough in a pinch, and won us games. There's no debate. Thad Lewis, hands down. I'll give you those past performances. But what about this camp? If Tuel is THAT much better than Thad, are you still going with him or are you gonna pick your hands up? It's a difficult position. Gotta give it to Thad too, but I'm kinda hoping Tuel will really progress.
reddogblitz Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Good points made for both. Of course I want to see what they do in PS games. If it's close, you gotta go with Thaddeus IMHO. Thaddeus is a gamer. He pretty much did last year what you want a backup to do. Win 1/2 the games. 2-3. Of his losses, our D and kicking teams sucked in 2 of them. The other was against the Saints. If Jim Kelly had come back and played in that game we might still have lost. His winning record percentage wise was the same at EJ's. Of course Tuel Time was 0 for 1 and if he was any good vs the Clowns we could have won that game, but he wasn't. We're trying to win this year, not develop long shot QBs. Thaddeus gives us the best chance to win. Plus Thaddeus is a leader. He leads by example, which is a very important part of the QB position. Maybe the most important part. HOF QB Roger Staubach says it is THE most important part. Can't overlook that. Of course I'll have to re evaluate after the 5th pre season game. As far as Tuel Time looking good in camp, that's what we were hearing last year and look what happened. Guys throwing nice passes in shorts does not impress me. It's like NBA players in shoot arounds. They make almost every one. But when the game starts, the good ones hit 50% or so. As far as if we keep 2 or 3, I think after last year, we gotta keep 3. Edited July 23, 2014 by reddogblitz
Hplarrm Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Overall, I think the answer to this question lies in what we want from a back-up QB. first off. I think our demands of the back-up QB are pretty limited. Our # 2 QB will need to: 1. Be able to step into a game and be ready to be productive immediately. The Bills model for this was AVP who several times came off the bench to lead the team to a TD (against Pitt in a playoff game and then Kelly who had needed help getting to the locker room actually re-entered the game after getting cortisone or some upper, against Oak, TC got knocked out and AVP almost pulled a win out of his hat as the Raiders letdown their guard having knocked out or starting QB, against Miami AVP led the team to a gamewinning FG), This is the minimum we want from a #2, but in a better world we hope he is more of a Frank Reich quality able to credibly start up to 3 games if the #1 goes down. However, if anyone expects our #2 to step in and lead the team to the plyoffs if Manuel goes down or simply disappoints your expectations are way too high. Its either Manual or bust for QB this year. Of the two, Lewis has proved he is capable of leading his team to a sub victory. Tuel may have upside and should get a good look but he sucked in his shot last year and we'll see about #2 for this year.
Dragonborn10 Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Where is the neither selection, they are both awful. Amen. Neither would be on any other NFL roster. Fitz is better than both. Should have drafted another late round prospect.
NoSaint Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 I'll give you those past performances. But what about this camp? If Tuel is THAT much better than Thad, are you still going with him or are you gonna pick your hands up? It's a difficult position. Gotta give it to Thad too, but I'm kinda hoping Tuel will really progress. Obviously no one would complain if tuel makes a big jump but all we can go on now is last year
Hplarrm Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Amen. Neither would be on any other NFL roster. Fitz is better than both. Should have drafted another late round prospect. Actually, I think the opposite argument from your view better fits the facts. Rather not meriting a slot on any other team's roster, Lewis has made the rosters of not only the Bills but 2 other NFL teams in his brief career. Rather than making the false claim he would not be on anyone's roster, Lewis is better seen as a journeyman who might be on anyone's roster as a back-up but pretty clearly is not a starter anywhere. Like it or not he did QB the team to two victories last year and even if they were both against the hated fish, he won a game for this team on the road. This is simply more than can be said of many #2 QBs in the league and he easily could be on the roster of many teams and in fact has been on three rosters in the recent past.
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