DC Tom Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 I think what Tom was saying is that stats coming from arrests and those incarcerated are different... Two people arguing similar arguments from different perspectives... I totally agree with you, and I thought that everything being discussed was based off of incarcerated individuals, not all arrests... Part of what I was saying. Part of it was not knowing exactly what environment mrrags works in, and not knowing what differences there are in the demographics of people locked up in different types of incarceration (federal, state, county and lower; maximum, medium, minimum security). I tried to find out, just for my county alone, what arrest and incarceration rates are in the county system, for what charges. Where any data's available, it's nearly impenetrable. I don't know that anyone really sees more than a single facet of the overall issue.
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 For every inmate there's at least one victim. That is assuming nobody is locked up unjustly? What about those people? The ones in the klink that that did nothing but be falsely accused and convicted. Of course the system NEVER makes mistakes.
CountryCletus Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 That is assuming nobody is locked up unjustly? What about those people? The ones in the klink that that did nothing but be falsely accused and convicted. Of course the system NEVER makes mistakes. The inmate is the victim in that situation....
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 The inmate is the victim in that situation.... Yep... My bad, was just going to edit my post.
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 Lol Long "night" this morning... I was thinking about what Mrags had said and what I responded... I was ready to alter my response after it hit me: "Duh! The system is victimizing these people."
CountryCletus Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 I think that he was speaking in a generalization... 99.9999% of inmates are there for crimes they committed... And as stated previously, have others that they haven't been convicted of yet... The .0001% that are wrongly accused are the exception...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 I think that he was speaking in a generalization... 99.9999% of inmates are there for crimes they committed... And as stated previously, have others that they haven't been convicted of yet... The .0001% that are wrongly accused are the exception... It has to be greater than .0001%. No system is that perfect. I have always been of the mentality that even one out of 100 is too many and is worse for society than letting 100 go. Falsely accused and convicted undermine the whole system worse. It is worse when the system victimizes, the victimizer can never be brought to justice.
CountryCletus Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 It has to be greater than .0001%. No system is that perfect. I have always been of the mentality that even one out of 100 is too many and is worse for society than letting 100 go. Falsely accused and convicted undermine the whole system worse. It is worse when the system victimizes, the victimizer can never be brought to justice. 1 out of 100 is high... But I understand what you are saying... Just like Lou stated before, we had a guy cleared through DNA.... He had spend 18-20 years locked up for a crime that he didn't commit. Literally ruined the mans life. He was .00001667% of PA's state inmate population... At least 8 of every 10 inmates will say they are innocent... And more than out of every 9 of those 10 are full of crap... Reminiscent of Shawshank Redemption...
mrags Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 Chances are, that even the ones that are locked up unjustifiably are guilty of something. Most people aren't "in the wrong place at the wrong time" they are there and may have done nothing wrong but that doesn't mean they weren't with the wrong people. And that doesn't mean they weren't aware of what was happening. The few stories that you hear about a guy getting released after 20 years for some rape or murder and had nothing to do with it are extremely slim. It just doesn't happen. 2 that I know of in NYS in recent memory. Lou touched on one of them.
CountryCletus Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 Chances are, that even the ones that are locked up unjustifiably are guilty of something. Most people aren't "in the wrong place at the wrong time" they are there and may have done nothing wrong but that doesn't mean they weren't with the wrong people. And that doesn't mean they weren't aware of what was happening. The few stories that you hear about a guy getting released after 20 years for some rape or murder and had nothing to do with it are extremely slim. It just doesn't happen. 2 that I know of in NYS in recent memory. Lou touched on one of them. I see what you are saying, but you know as well as I do that there are hundreds of Corrections employees that are guilty of something that they didn't get caught for, and likely would get locked up had they been caught... I have inadvertently carried concealed in NYS which would land me in the clink... There was a few times in my younger, less responsible years where I could have gotten pinched for possession... Fortunately I grew up...
mrags Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 1 out of 100 is high... But I understand what you are saying... Just like Lou stated before, we had a guy cleared through DNA.... He had spend 18-20 years locked up for a crime that he didn't commit. Literally ruined the mans life. He was .00001667% of PA's state inmate population... At least 8 of every 10 inmates will say they are innocent... And more than out of every 9 of those 10 are full of crap... Reminiscent of Shawshank Redemption... and chances are, not that it's justified, but that man is a multimillionaire for the rest of his life for the years that he served. Again, not that it's worth it, but it's not like he gets let out and, ok, find yourself a life. He'll be set for life after this. I'd say more than the 8 out of ten saying thy are innocent. And I'd definitely say more than 9 of the 10 really are guilty. And I must say that movies like Shawshank are horrible for what we do as a profession. It brings nothing but false stories that make us Officers look like thugs beating inmates for no reason and makes it look like the inmates are locked in their cells for 24 hours a day with no light, no window, slop on a bucket for food and a bed is a cold floor. Someone should make a realistic movie about how prisons are now days, with Packages of 30+ LBs of food and items come in from their families multiple times a year, colored flat screen TVs with cable in their cells (HBO included), commissary multiple times a month where they get to spend as much as they want on items like electric razors, snickers bars, potato chips, and ice cream. I see what you are saying, but you know as well as I do that there are hundreds of Corrections employees that are guilty of something that they didn't get caught for, and likely would get locked up had they been caught... I have inadvertently carried concealed in NYS which would land me in the clink... There was a few times in my younger, less responsible years where I could have gotten pinched for possession... Fortunately I grew up... possession of personal amounts of refer aren't going to get you 5 years in prison. Maybe a few nights in jail, a fine, and that's about it.
CountryCletus Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 and chances are, not that it's justified, but that man is a multimillionaire for the rest of his life for the years that he served. Again, not that it's worth it, but it's not like he gets let out and, ok, find yourself a life. He'll be set for life after this. I'd say more than the 8 out of ten saying thy are innocent. And I'd definitely say more than 9 of the 10 really are guilty. And I must say that movies like Shawshank are horrible for what we do as a profession. It brings nothing but false stories that make us Officers look like thugs beating inmates for no reason and makes it look like the inmates are locked in their cells for 24 hours a day with no light, no window, slop on a bucket for food and a bed is a cold floor. Someone should make a realistic movie about how prisons are now days, with Packages of 30+ LBs of food and items come in from their families multiple times a year, colored flat screen TVs with cable in their cells (HBO included), commissary multiple times a month where they get to spend as much as they want on items like electric razors, snickers bars, potato chips, and ice cream. possession of personal amounts of refer aren't going to get you 5 years in prison. Maybe a few nights in jail, a fine, and that's about it. Maybe I wasn't talking about weed.... Lol... Our crooks have the same luxuries.... Recreation pretty much all day, commissary once a week, family purchased care packages 3-4 times a year, flat screen TVs, cable (no HBO), ice cream.... The list goes on.... It's mildly disturbing to me... Rather than doing time, it's almost as if they just have to go live in a structured community and have zero responsibility.... The more we discuss it, the better idea it sounds like... Do they get all the Bills games at your joint mrags???
DC Tom Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 And I must say that movies like Shawshank are horrible for what we do as a profession. The problem with movies like Shawshank aren't the movies themselves; it's the dumb-asses that think they reflect reality in any manner.
mrags Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 The problem with movies like Shawshank aren't the movies themselves; it's the dumb-asses that think they reflect reality in any manner. well... Maybe we should hang everyone that thinks they are good comparisons to prison life then. That'll settle it.
CountryCletus Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 well... Maybe we should hang everyone that thinks they are good comparisons to prison life then. That'll settle it. So... In other news... Lol
DC Tom Posted July 27, 2014 Posted July 27, 2014 well... Maybe we should hang everyone that thinks they are good comparisons to prison life then. That'll settle it. God knows I'm not one to tolerates stupidity, but that might be a bit of overkill. Maybe just limit their moviegoing rights to Michael Bay films.
mrags Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 God knows I'm not one to tolerates stupidity, but that might be a bit of overkill. Maybe just limit their moviegoing rights to Michael Bay films. nope. The idiots who watch and believe these movies need to die.
Shamrock Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 We should definitely do our best to piss off convicted felons. Once their sentence is up, we want them enveloped back into society with the highest level of resentment imaginable. In the 90's this neoNazi- dude had the swastika head tattoo, celebrated Hitler's birthday, well he stuck an axe into a guys head, cut his legs off & dumped the body, got caught & did 20 in Pentridge. He was into bashing gays, Asians & being a general !@#$, including a conviction of rape on a 16 year old boy. In jail was a general a$$, ran a Nazi crew of stand over men, often preying sexually on younger offenders. The story goes that 4 hard men of Pentridge had a sit down meeting & told him that his time was marked. The next day he asked to be in protective custody & his behaviour markedly improved. Journey of life...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 28, 2014 Posted July 28, 2014 (edited) to add to this. It's pretty hard to hide pounds and pounds of drugs. When the place gets raided it usually sticks. It's easy to throw a gun in the River tho. These guys aren't stupid. They know what will put them in prison for 5 years and what will give them life. People are being naive again. people have been jailed for a little as a half an ounce. Man Gets Sentenced To 20 Years In Prison For A Half Ounce Connecticut First offense: up to 1-year prison term, up to a $1,000 fine, or both. Edited July 28, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Recommended Posts