ExiledInIllinois Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 What about the CO's... Lol In PA, the uniforms are made for the co's by the inmates... As you can imagine, they don't fit well... The Federal gov't has been getting stuff from prison industries for years... Years ago, our safety shoes where made by prisoners... No wonder the Fed is so effed up. Not sufe what the regs are on this now... I noticed some office furniture still made by prisoners. Anyway, that's what we have China for.
mrags Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Thanks Tom. I'd like to add to that, that just because criminals are only getting busted for drugs doesn't mean they aren't guilty of other crimes. It just means that's all the authorities could link them too. Look at Aaron Hernadez. Who thought the guy was involved with 3 murders (allegedly)??? Nobody just over a year ago. Then we find out he's linked to 3 and probably pulled the trigger himself. The inmates inside the prosons are no different. Just because they were caught for selling some heroin doesn't mean they don't have 3 or 4 bodies on their count. Trust me, I listen to them talk. There's a few I know of for fact that will be out soon and walking around on the west side of Buffalo by year end. Enjoy that thought. The Federal gov't has been getting stuff from prison industries for years... Years ago, our safety shoes where made by prisoners... No wonder the Fed is so effed up. Not sufe what the regs are on this now... I noticed some office furniture still made by prisoners. Anyway, that's what we have China for. new York state is responsible for koscense plates, cleaning supplies, office chairs, school chairs, school desks, lockers and the list goes on. Anytime you see the name Corcraft... Think of prisoners making money off of it.
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Thanks Tom. I'd like to add to that, that just because criminals are only getting busted for drugs doesn't mean they aren't guilty of other crimes. It just means that's all the authorities could link them too. Look at Aaron Hernadez. Who thought the guy was involved with 3 murders (allegedly)??? Nobody just over a year ago. Then we find out he's linked to 3 and probably pulled the trigger himself. The inmates inside the prosons are no different. Just because they were caught for selling some heroin doesn't mean they don't have 3 or 4 bodies on their count. Trust me, I listen to them talk. There's a few I know of for fact that will be out soon and walking around on the west side of Buffalo by year end. Enjoy that thought. new York state is responsible for koscense plates, cleaning supplies, office chairs, school chairs, school desks, lockers and the list goes on. Anytime you see the name Corcraft... Think of prisoners making money off of it. I wanna say: UNICOR too? Not sure if that acronym is right... I saw that on some stuff. EDIT: Yep... Looked it up. www.unicor.gov is fed prisons. And we get products from the blind... Like clocks... Go figure. J/K
mrags Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 I wanna say: UNICOR too? Not sure if that acronym is right... I saw that on some stuff. EDIT: Yep... Looked it up. www.unicor.gov is fed prisons. http://www.corcraft.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/TopCategoriesDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10051 Yup. And the problem is, many people will look at or and say that NYS is along hand over fist on inmate labor. That's fine. But this job in the jail pays incredibly more than any other job. Between metal shop and the mess hall, these guys work a regular 8 hour a day job Monday through Friday. Making (I can't remember exactly, but) between $1-2 an hour (I think). Which is insane for a person that shouldn't make anything because they are in prison for life for multiple murders. With that money they can buy commissary, or send home, do whatever they want with it really. At the same time, people say the state is making tons off them. That's fine but they don't realize how much money is spent on other things inside the prison system and they just do this just to make up for the money lost. When I was at my facility downstate, the prison was a much smaller prison. Only about 500 inmates. We spent over $2 million a month on medications for just those 500 inmates. Just to give you an idea, That facility is the smallest population in NYS and there are over 60 prosons in the state. Some housing more than 2,000 inmates. Who's good at math??? How much tax dollars is that, spent in these criminals every month alone???
CountryCletus Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 http://www.corcraft.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/TopCategoriesDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10051 Yup. And the problem is, many people will look at or and say that NYS is along hand over fist on inmate labor. That's fine. But this job in the jail pays incredibly more than any other job. Between metal shop and the mess hall, these guys work a regular 8 hour a day job Monday through Friday. Making (I can't remember exactly, but) between $1-2 an hour (I think). Which is insane for a person that shouldn't make anything because they are in prison for life for multiple murders. With that money they can buy commissary, or send home, do whatever they want with it really. At the same time, people say the state is making tons off them. That's fine but they don't realize how much money is spent on other things inside the prison system and they just do this just to make up for the money lost. When I was at my facility downstate, the prison was a much smaller prison. Only about 500 inmates. We spent over $2 million a month on medications for just those 500 inmates. Just to give you an idea, That facility is the smallest population in NYS and there are over 60 prosons in the state. Some housing more than 2,000 inmates. Who's good at math??? How much tax dollars is that, spent in these criminals every month alone??? I work at a max that has 2300-2400 inmates... Each inmate receives pay for what they do... School, work, anything,.. Minimum of 4 hours a day, maximum of 8 hours a day... In PA they range from 19-43 cents/hour... There are specialized joints that do laundry or other things and I heard they make more... I don't have the figures of what we spend on medical- bit seeing as though we are the hepatitis center of the western region, I'm sure it's substantial...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 Thanks Tom. I'd like to add to that, that just because criminals are only getting busted for drugs doesn't mean they aren't guilty of other crimes. It just means that's all the authorities could link them too. Look at Aaron Hernadez. Who thought the guy was involved with 3 murders (allegedly)??? Nobody just over a year ago. Then we find out he's linked to 3 and probably pulled the trigger himself. The inmates inside the prosons are no different. Just because they were caught for selling some heroin doesn't mean they don't have 3 or 4 bodies on their count. Trust me, I listen to them talk. There's a few I know of for fact that will be out soon and walking around on the west side of Buffalo by year end. Enjoy that thought. You're still missing my point. I've never said (nor would ever contend) that only drug offenders are being prosecuted and incarcerated. I'm under no delusions about there being honest-to-God bad guys out there who need to be locked up. But it's quite alarming to hear you so casually link all drug offenders to violent crime simply because they're drug offenders. That's the exact mentality that resulted in our 'land of the free' becoming home of the most incarcerated. It's also just flat out untrue.
Buftex Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 "We have more prisoners at the moment, than China.. the only other thing we have more of than China is, of course, debt to China.."
mrags Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 You're still missing my point. I've never said (nor would ever contend) that only drug offenders are being prosecuted and incarcerated. I'm under no delusions about there being honest-to-God bad guys out there who need to be locked up. But it's quite alarming to hear you so casually link all drug offenders to violent crime simply because they're drug offenders. That's the exact mentality that resulted in our 'land of the free' becoming home of the most incarcerated. It's also just flat out untrue. having drugs, doing drugs, selling drugs, making/growing drugs is a crime. And yes, many of them are serious criminals, not just drug addicts and pot sellers. Drugs are the main source of income in illegal activity in the US. The biggest gangs in the country claim their territory and defend it with iron fists against one another. I get what your saying. I'm not talking about the 19 year old kid buying dime bags here. I think your just being a little naive as to how big the drug problem is in the US and what comes with it.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/08/economist-explains-8
mrags Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/08/economist-explains-8 yeah. I read it. It's the opinions of someone else. Personally I don't really care. And you've never talked to him personally but you are talking to me personally now and I have experience. I'm telling you that the increase in population in the 80s increased In prison because of the gangs. Not the drugs. The drugs are what got them caught. It was a way to get them off the streets. Just because they weren't caught killing someone doesn't mean they haven't or won't again. The programs the article talks about that many states have created for treatment. I worked at one for 6 months. Willard DTC (drug treatment center) and Shock Camp. I have already explained that the success rate of completing the program was well. The rate of them returning, usually within months, is extremely high... 70%. Hell, we had one female there that had been there 7 times. The other iates used to call her "The Dep" as in Deputy Superintendant because she spent more time there than mich of the administration. She knew the game. Knew what she could get away with on the outside and knew that if she got in trouble again she would be given another opportunity to go right back for 97 days, graduate the program, and be out in the street in no time. We used to have group sessions where the parolees would talk about the things they've done and I'm telling you it isn't pretty. It isn't just drugs. Your argument is that we have more encarcerated people than anyone else in the world. Yes... We do. It's justified. It needs to be that way. Honestly, we need more in prison and off the streets.
Deranged Rhino Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 yeah. I read it. It's the opinions of someone else. Personally I don't really care. And you've never talked to him personally but you are talking to me personally now and I have experience. I'm telling you that the increase in population in the 80s increased In prison because of the gangs. Not the drugs. The drugs are what got them caught. It was a way to get them off the streets. Just because they weren't caught killing someone doesn't mean they haven't or won't again. The programs the article talks about that many states have created for treatment. I worked at one for 6 months. Willard DTC (drug treatment center) and Shock Camp. I have already explained that the success rate of completing the program was well. The rate of them returning, usually within months, is extremely high... 70%. Hell, we had one female there that had been there 7 times. The other iates used to call her "The Dep" as in Deputy Superintendant because she spent more time there than mich of the administration. She knew the game. Knew what she could get away with on the outside and knew that if she got in trouble again she would be given another opportunity to go right back for 97 days, graduate the program, and be out in the street in no time. We used to have group sessions where the parolees would talk about the things they've done and I'm telling you it isn't pretty. It isn't just drugs. Your argument is that we have more encarcerated people than anyone else in the world. Yes... We do. It's justified. It needs to be that way. Honestly, we need more in prison and off the streets. I know what you do for a living and respect your point of view on this issue. The bolded section is just something we'll never agree on. It's too sweeping and is the line of thinking that made the war on drugs the utter failure that it is. We're still having two entirely different conversations it seems, and that's okay. I've spent a number of years working with law enforcement and am not ignorant to the realities of the world. I'm not calling for an end to prisons or claiming we live in a utopia.
mrags Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 I know what you do for a living and respect your point of view on this issue. The bolded section is just something we'll never agree on. It's too sweeping and is the line of thinking that made the war on drugs the utter failure that it is. We're still having two entirely different conversations it seems, and that's okay. I've spent a number of years working with law enforcement and am not ignorant to the realities of the world. I'm not calling for an end to prisons or claiming we live in a utopia. ok
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 "We have more prisoners at the moment, than China.. the only other thing we have more of than China is, of course, debt to China.." not to get politicalBy who's records? Do you trust any numbers reported by them? How many are either caned or executed?
mrags Posted July 23, 2014 Posted July 23, 2014 not to get political By who's records? Do you trust any numbers reported by them? How many are either caned or executed? added to that... In many countries, encarceration isn't practiced. If you steal, they just chop off your hands. And of course that's just stealing. I'm inly guessing you have to chop a few people's hands off until most decide not to steal anymore. Just sayin.
mrags Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Hey. Here's this story. These guys are probably just selling drugs tho. They probably deserve some kind of treatment facility instead of prison. I think they have a good shot at reforming into decent citizens when it's all done. I mean hey, they owned their own ised car dealership. They must be decent with dealing with people. http://wivb.com/2014/07/23/officials-take-down-suspected-drug-trafficking-gang/
Buftex Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 having drugs, doing drugs, selling drugs, making/growing drugs is a crime. And yes, many of them are serious criminals, not just drug addicts and pot sellers. Drugs are the main source of income in illegal activity in the US. The biggest gangs in the country claim their territory and defend it with iron fists against one another. I get what your saying. I'm not talking about the 19 year old kid buying dime bags here. I think your just being a little naive as to how big the drug problem is in the US and what comes with it. But isn't a big part of "what comes with it" caused by the illeagality of the drugs? If drugs weren't illeagal, you don't think many of the crimes that accompany the drug culture would dissipate? I am not even necessarily a "legalize it" guy...I think there are legitimate concerns...as with alchohol. Some would be able to enjoy them in a responsible way, and others would not. But when you think of all the crimes that are committed to keep the illeagal drug trade going, are you sure the trade-off wouldn't be worth it?
Buftex Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 not to get political By who's records? Do you trust any numbers reported by them? How many are either caned or executed? That is a fair point...the numbers citied in the peice (I don't think anyone bothered to watch it) are International Centre on Prison Studies. Either way though, whether the China stats are correct (they reportedly have 1.6 million in jail vs. our 2.2), that is a pretty huge figure for the US. If the China stats are true (who knows) they have 1.35 billion people, while the US has 315 million (in 2013). 2.2 out of 315 million may not seem like that much...but if you are black or Latino the percentage is much higher for you...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) That is a fair point...the numbers citied in the peice (I don't think anyone bothered to watch it) are International Centre on Prison Studies. Either way though, whether the China stats are correct (they reportedly have 1.6 million in jail vs. our 2.2), that is a pretty huge figure for the US. If the China stats are true (who knows) they have 1.35 billion people, while the US has 315 million (in 2013). 2.2 out of 315 million may not seem like that much...but if you are black or Latino the percentage is much higher for you... The # 1 way to reverse those numbers overnight. Legalize pot and set all pot offenders free immediately!!! http://felonvoting.p...sourceID=004339 its dated but supports my point. . 2010 ~ 21%? http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-war-statistics Number of people arrested for a marijuana law violation in 2012: 749,825 Number of those charged with marijuana law violations who were arrested for possession only: 658,231 (88 percent) Victimless Crime http://www.libertari...son-population/ Edited July 24, 2014 by BillsFan-4-Ever
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 We should definitely do our best to piss off convicted felons. Once their sentence is up, we want them enveloped back into society with the highest level of resentment imaginable. Right. Riiiiiight. LOL
mrags Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Of people really think pot is the issue. It's not. That's my point about bpeople being naive. They don't realize how big the cocaine, crack, heroine, and meth problems are in this country. Ridiculously large.
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