CodeMonkey Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 I wonder how much pissing off WNY and all Bills fans will cost him in the long run? Are you serious about this? Next to nothing of course, and certainly nothing he will lose any sleep over. What do you have in mind that I am not considering?
eball Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Jon Bon Jovi has no substative influence whatsoever within the Toronto group. He attached himself to a wealthy group that afforded him an opportunity to buy in as an NFL owner, a very small staked owner. Yet he is the one most targeted for criticism. He is a small fry in a group with big fishes. That was my point. Yes, because the other guys are Canadians with an obvious desire to move the team. That's what makes it worse -- JBJ went into it with open eyes and selfish interests; he gets what he deserves. Why didn't he contact Pegula or Golisano to partner with? Or Trump?
K D Posted July 30, 2014 Author Posted July 30, 2014 I wonder how much pissing off WNY and all Bills fans will cost him in the long run? it has certainly hurt his reputation. even fans of other teams have come out against him. i'd be interested to see how that translates to $ lost. also, god help him next time he's rumored to be trying to buy a team. the word is already out on this guy. his best bet would be to ditch the Toronto jerks and find some new investors
PromoTheRobot Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) Are you serious about this? Next to nothing of course, and certainly nothing he will lose any sleep over. What do you have in mind that I am not considering? Well he probably can't play Buffalo or Darien Lakes again. His record sales might drop locally and certainly no more royalties from local airplay. Edited July 30, 2014 by PromoTheRobot
jrb2590 Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 "New Jersey’s favorite hair rocker was the most tangible threat. Bon Jovi has no great love for the Bills: He’s a Giants fan, and was even standing on the team’s sidelines in 1991, when Bills kicker Scott Norwood missed a game-winning field goal against the Giants in the Super Bowl—an event, it’s worth noting, that is the worst football memory for pretty much every Buffalo Bills fan" Bon Jovi was cheering on the Giants during Wide-Right!!! Like he could get any worse! HE is the curse, the Anti-Bill, and he must be stopped!!!
Hplarrm Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 My GUESS is that JBJ would love nothing more than to be part of (and if possible the lead part) of an NFL ownership group. However, he has been forced to deal with the reality that even with a few hundred million he is willing to devote to fulfilling this fantasy, the likely market price of a billion or a billion+ is beyond his price range. Add to this challenge he will need to ingratiate himself to the NFL. Enter the Toronto folk. He knows that his group will likely be outbid by either Pegula or Golisano, but what does it matter when he joins in with the CA folk: 1. He gets to build his relationship with the serious cash cow the Tannenbaums and make the relationship real. Even better he has more star power than the Tannenbaums and thus can play the tiop dog in this deal even if the partners are putting up more cash. 2. This provides him with a chance to see the process at work and ingratiate himself to theNFL hierarchy which contractually carries a veto over whatever the Wilson Trust wants to do. Make no mistake it is the NFL team owners who control the process and the Wilsons want the biggest money they can get and Ralph o be revered. JBJ actually helps all these folks by even though he will not win and the NFL makes the MOST money if there are BOTH the current Buffalo franchise AND a separate future Toronto frachise the NFL loves having him involved in the bidding if only to drive up the Pegula Golisano bidding. 3. The NFL is gonna remain in Buffalo because this makes them the most money. The Wilson Trust is set-up to make it really hard for the team to leave for six years, but does have an out that allows them toextort paying for a new stadium with an NYS Sports Authority bearing the lionshare of the cost. The Bills and Erie County and maybe the poor City pay a little but only enough to justify NYS making this poor investment. Yet, despite the fact it will not pay more than the cost of investment it is still a good deal for WNY taxpayers because they get all the benefits (good but still limited) but the lionshare of the costs are picked up by NYC. If the Bills left and particularly if JBJ simply moved the franchise to the bigger market the NFL just walks away from the near billion that the Bills do for JBJ to get 1.5 billion they only get a part of. Everybody is happy with JBJ sucking up to Tor for a later franchise and the bills going to a high bid fromn Pegula or Golisano
JohnC Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) JBJ has vilified himself to us for life as far as I'm concerned. I hope Buffalo continues to be a Bon Jovi Free Zone and god help them if they try to play his music at any of our games. Also, he might want to skip Buffalo and Rochester next time he does a tour He will perform in Toronto and make more money! Edited July 30, 2014 by JohnC
Tyrod's Tailor Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 I think a team in Toronto is a great idea. Just move the stupid Rams or Raiders there instead.
KOKBILLS Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 it has certainly hurt his reputation. even fans of other teams have come out against him. i'd be interested to see how that translates to $ lost. also, god help him next time he's rumored to be trying to buy a team. the word is already out on this guy. his best bet would be to ditch the Toronto jerks and find some new investors The people I have spoke with who are not Bills fans do get a bit fired up about a guy from NJ teaming up with a group from Toronto with obvious intentions on moving the Bills to Canada long term...I do think this will have an effect on his reputation...I don't think it's really going to matter much though...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 The people I have spoke with who are not Bills fans do get a bit fired up about a guy from NJ teaming up with a group from Toronto with obvious intentions on moving the Bills to Canada long term...I do think this will have an effect on his reputation...I don't think it's really going to matter much though... Yeah, no one likes when teams relocate. It is kind of like the LeBron James thing. Everyone hated him for leaving Cleveland for Miami and loved him for coming back. This especially holds true for a team like the Bills with a rich history and years of support. People generally empathize with the people losing their team (or star in the LBJ example).
JohnC Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 My GUESS is that JBJ would love nothing more than to be part of (and if possible the lead part) of an NFL ownership group. However, he has been forced to deal with the reality that even with a few hundred million he is willing to devote to fulfilling this fantasy, the likely market price of a billion or a billion+ is beyond his price range. JBJ isn't close to having enough resources to be a lead owner. And he never will! He had a life time ambition of being an NFL owner. So he, as a miniscule investor, joined a group that was a serious bidder for a franchise that was on the market. Many people are in a frenzy (not saying you are)over his alignment with a group that seemed to have a legitimate chance of acquiring an NFL franchise. There are many people who feel that he is being a traitor for pursuing his dreams. My response is: a traitor to what? He, like everyone else, has a right to be part of a group bidding on an asset on the market. If the Toronto group won the bid JBJ would have no say as to whether the team stayed or left the region. He would have little influence as to how the organization would be structured and run. The bottom line is that he is a very visible front man for the big boys who have the real money. In my opinion (not shared by many others) the hostility directed toward him is misplaced. He has a right to pursue his interests in this free-market competition.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) JBJ isn't close to having enough resources to be a lead owner. And he never will! He had a life time ambition of being an NFL owner. So he, as a miniscule investor, joined a group that was a serious bidder for a franchise that was on the market. Many people are in a frenzy (not saying you are)over his alignment with a group that seemed to have a legitimate chance of acquiring an NFL franchise. There are many people who feel that he is being a traitor for pursuing his dreams. My response is: a traitor to what? He, like everyone else, has a right to be part of a group bidding on an asset on the market. If the Toronto group won the bid JBJ would have no say as to whether the team stayed or left the region. He would have little influence as to how the organization would be structured and run. The bottom line is that he is a very visible front man for the big boys who have the real money. In my opinion (not shared by many others) the hostility directed toward him is misplaced. He has a right to pursue his interests in this free-market competition. JBJ was going to be the lead guy in that group. I believe that you need to own 30% to be considered that but I can't remember. He was not just a public face for these guys. They may have all had an equal share but JBJ was going to be the guy at league meetings, etc... Edited July 30, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
TheFunPolice Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 if the 1.2 billion number for the Toronto bid is true then BJ must be tapped out at that number....
CodeMonkey Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) Well he probably can't play Buffalo or Darien Lakes again. His record sales might drop locally and certainly no more royalties from local airplay. I think you are assuming everyone in WNY is a Bills fan, and to the degree people on this fan board are. That is not the case. Most wouldn't care (or at least wouldn't hold a grudge against JBJ personally) 6 months after the move. But even assuming they were, you think not playing at FNC or Darien Lake (or elsewhere in WNY), or a drop in record sales in WNY is going to make him worry? Plus, he might become more popular in Toronto which as a considerably larger market would probably more than offset what he might lose. Come on man. You are REALLY stretching there Edited July 30, 2014 by CodeMonkey
Kelly the Dog Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 JBJ isn't close to having enough resources to be a lead owner. And he never will! He had a life time ambition of being an NFL owner. So he, as a miniscule investor, joined a group that was a serious bidder for a franchise that was on the market. Many people are in a frenzy (not saying you are)over his alignment with a group that seemed to have a legitimate chance of acquiring an NFL franchise. There are many people who feel that he is being a traitor for pursuing his dreams. My response is: a traitor to what? He, like everyone else, has a right to be part of a group bidding on an asset on the market. If the Toronto group won the bid JBJ would have no say as to whether the team stayed or left the region. He would have little influence as to how the organization would be structured and run. The bottom line is that he is a very visible front man for the big boys who have the real money. In my opinion (not shared by many others) the hostility directed toward him is misplaced. He has a right to pursue his interests in this free-market competition. That is not true according to John Kryk of the Toronto Sun who has been all over this. They would all put in equal amounts. JBJ would be presented as "the controlling owner" to the league. Yes, he could be outvoted 2-1, but it wasn't that he was just going to be a figurehead, he was going to invest as much as they did. Which is another reason they will lose the higher the bidding goes.
JohnC Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) JBJ was going to be the lead guy in that group. I believe that you need to own 30% to be considered that but I can't remember. He was not just a public face for these guys. They may have all had an equal share but JBJ was going to be the guy at league meetings, etc... From everything I have read the estimates for JBJ's worth is in the range of $325-400 M. What percentage of that do you think is liquid? Maybe 30-35%? And that is probably a generous estimate. The NFL owners want teams on the market to be bought by a dominant investing owner. Rogers and Tannenbaum are the primary investors. JBJ might be the face of the franchise but he would not be the most influential person in the franchise. Rogers and Tannebaum can choose JBJ to be their CEO. That is plausible. But if they decide that they want to go in another direction then JBJ has little say in his involvement with the franchise. As I stated in the prior posts that as a minority owner JBJ has little say unless the real monied owners want him to have the say. Whatever authority JBJ has it will be from the authority as a CEO given to him by the main owners. Ralph Wilson elevated Brandon to be the CEO of the Bills. If Wilson wanted something done then Brandon executed the orders. That is not true according to John Kryk of the Toronto Sun who has been all over this. They would all put in equal amounts. JBJ would be presented as "the controlling owner" to the league. Yes, he could be outvoted 2-1, but it wasn't that he was just going to be a figurehead, he was going to invest as much as they did. Which is another reason they will lose the higher the bidding goes. If it is as you say it is then all of his assets have to be liquid. I doubt that is the case. In a $1.2 purchase he would have to sell all of his assets. That is improbable. In a comparison Terry Pegula cashed out a portion of his assets for $1.2 B in hard cash. Edited July 30, 2014 by JohnC
eball Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 Inquiring minds want to know -- just how many Bon Jovi albums does JohnC own and how many concerts has he been to? I smell a fanboy...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 (edited) From everything I have read the estimates for JBJ's worth is in the range of $325-400 M. What percentage of that do you think is liquid? Maybe 30-35%? And that is probably a generous estimate. The NFL owners want teams on the market to be bought by a dominant investing owner. Rogers and Tannenbaum are the primary investors. JBJ might be the face of the franchise but he would not be the most influential person in the franchise. Rogers and Tannebaum can choose JBJ to be their CEO. That is plausible. But if they decide that they want to go in another direction then JBJ has little say in his involvement with the franchise. As I stated in the prior posts that as a minority owner JBJ has little say unless the real monied owners want him to have the say. Whatever authority JBJ has it will be from the authority as a CEO given to him by the main owners. That isn't true though. Perhaps the estimates on his net worth are off but he was going to be the main guy? I know that for a fact. In addition, you need to own 30% to be the controlling owner. That may be the extent of what he would have owned but he would have had control. At minimum JBJ was going to own 1/3. Edited July 30, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
TheFunPolice Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 I don't see how Bon Jovi has the cash to own 33% of a team with a 1.3 billion dollar price tag. And that is Pegula's bid so you would think they would have to go higher than that. 33% of 1.3 billion is $429 million. That has to be just about every penny BJ has, if not more.
JohnC Posted July 30, 2014 Posted July 30, 2014 That isn't true though. Perhaps the estimates on his net worth are off but he was going to be the main guy? I know that for a fact. In addition, you need to own 30% to be the controlling owner. That may be the extent of what he would have owned but he would have had control. At minimum JBJ was going to own 1/3. The numbers don't add up. Are you suggesting that all his wealth is liquid? I doubt it. There is no way that he has the up front resources $$$$ to be an approximate 1/3 owner of a team estimated to cost $1.2 B or more. I don't doubt your claim that Tannenbaum and Rogers were going to allow JBJ to run the organization. But from an ownership standpoint he would be very much subserviant to them. If the canadian group bought the team and moved it to Canada who was going to pay for a canadian stadium? That certainly would have to be factored in the added future cost for the more than $1 B franchise. For the most part the public authorities don't spend public money for sports' facilities. The new owners would also be mostly responsible for the new facility. Is JBJ going to be involved in that part of the business? If so there is an added expense for him. Where I disagree with your position is in your assessment of JBJ as an owner. His net worth doesn't come close to allowing him to be near a 1/3 partner in the business. Net worth doesn't translate to cash on hand. That's what it takes to buy a NFL franchise. Terry Pegula recently cashed in an asset to have $1.2 B in hand. That is much different from JBJ's financial status. Inquiring minds want to know -- just how many Bon Jovi albums does JohnC own and how many concerts has he been to? I smell a fanboy... I have never owned a Bon Jovi album and I have never been to his concert. I don't even like his hair!
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