Kirby Jackson Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) My thinking is 180 degrees from this. There is no way, in my opinion, that politicians across the US would vote for removing the anti-trust exemption for the single fact that the most important thing to them, is their own re-election. And doing something intentionally that hurts,and maybe even kills, the nations most popular sport and pastime for the sake of keeping a team in Buffalo NY? No how, no way in my opinion. I don't care how many friends Sen. Chuckles has, he is not going to convince the number of his colleagues he would need to pull that off to commit political suicide like that. And the NFL and it's owners, big time businessmen most of them, know that full well. I think that you make a good point but is that the game of chicken that the owners want to play? It would be much easier for the small market owners to just vote down ownership / relocation. Even if it is a 3% chance it is not worth it at all for those teams to risk it. Edited July 29, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
CodeMonkey Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) I think that you make a good point but is that the game of chicken that the owners want to play? It would be much easier for the small market owners to just vote down ownership / relocation. Even if it is a 3% chance it is not worth it at all for those teams to risk it. i understand you, and you make a compelling case as well. But I think the chance is 0%, not 3%. These businessmen owners are used to dealing with politicians. And one of them, one Charles Schumer in this case, putting on a show and rattling his sabre for the press isn't going to frighten them in the least I don't believe. Yet another reason I wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall during the owners meetings and their conversations. To know what they are really thinking. Edited July 29, 2014 by CodeMonkey
TheFunPolice Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 Honest question: when does building a new stadium outside of the current location in Orchard Park become "relocation?"
Billsguy Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 I said this a long time ago and I have no reason to change my view: there is a 95 % chance that the Bills will move to Toronto. The fix is in. The NFL wants a team in Canada and Toronto is the only real viable option. Also, I heard from an NFL owner, in a private conversation, that the Bills are headed to Toronto. The NFL is motivated by MONEY!!! The owners are greedy and not loyal. They can make more money with a team in Toronto vs. a team in Buffalo. It is all about the money. Now as a Bills fan since day one back in 1960, I don't want this to happen. In spite of the huffing and puffing from politicians, former jocks, and community leaders they are powerless to stop it. Prepare yourselves Bills fans. There is little room for the small markets like Buffalo in the Billionaires Boys Club (aka NFL).
Campy Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 I said this a long time ago and I have no reason to change my view: there is a 95 % chance that the Bills will move to Toronto. The fix is in. The NFL wants a team in Canada and Toronto is the only real viable option. Also, I heard from an NFL owner, in a private conversation, that the Bills are headed to Toronto. The NFL is motivated by MONEY!!! The owners are greedy and not loyal. They can make more money with a team in Toronto vs. a team in Buffalo. It is all about the money. Now as a Bills fan since day one back in 1960, I don't want this to happen. In spite of the huffing and puffing from politicians, former jocks, and community leaders they are powerless to stop it. Prepare yourselves Bills fans. There is little room for the small markets like Buffalo in the Billionaires Boys Club (aka NFL). Are you asking us to believe that you and a crystal ball-owning NFL owner were just chilling one day and he spilled the beans?
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 I said this a long time ago and I have no reason to change my view: there is a 95 % chance that the Bills will move to Toronto. There's also no reason to have this view, based on what you've provided. It's just opinion and dread. Yes, the NFL is a lucrative business, but many here have gone in-depth, including some with insider information, as to why a Toronto move would not be quite as profitable as a first glance suggests. The way that revenue is shared in the NFL, and the way that media rights work, suggest that Toronto isn't SO attractive a host that it will offset the heavy, heavy cost of moving. There is of course a chance, but 95% is really a chicken little number pulled out of the air. I respect your longtime fandom and I think you're going to be happier with the final result than you think. Take heart. Are you asking us to believe that you and a crystal ball-owning NFL owner were just chilling one day and he spilled the beans? Well, Jimmy Haslam talks to just about anybody, and takes his draft advice from transients, so... maybe?
CodeMonkey Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 Are you asking us to believe that you and a crystal ball-owning NFL owner were just chilling one day and he spilled the beans? No more far fetched than a few of the other claims here lately. Tis what happens when the entire process is behind closed doors.
May Day 10 Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 They can make more money with a team in Toronto vs. a team in Buffalo. why not have both?
CodeMonkey Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 why not have both? The Bills have trouble selling out late season games now as it is. Pulling the Canadians away to support a Toronto team would mean almost sure death for the Bills.
thebandit27 Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 I said this a long time ago and I have no reason to change my view: there is a 95 % chance that the Bills will move to Toronto. The fix is in. The NFL wants a team in Canada and Toronto is the only real viable option. Also, I heard from an NFL owner, in a private conversation, that the Bills are headed to Toronto. The NFL is motivated by MONEY!!! The owners are greedy and not loyal. They can make more money with a team in Toronto vs. a team in Buffalo. It is all about the money. Now as a Bills fan since day one back in 1960, I don't want this to happen. In spite of the huffing and puffing from politicians, former jocks, and community leaders they are powerless to stop it. Prepare yourselves Bills fans. There is little room for the small markets like Buffalo in the Billionaires Boys Club (aka NFL). Rather than get in a "my info is better than your info" exchange, I'll appeal to logic here: If the NFL were so intent on tapping big markets in the name of money, why is there no NFL team in Los Angeles? Or, for that matter, no team in San Antonio, San Jose, Louisville, Oklahoma City, Las Vegas, Omaha, etc.?
Kelly the Dog Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 The Bills have trouble selling out late season games now as it is. Pulling the Canadians away to support a Toronto team would mean almost sure death for the Bills. Hard to say. Most people that live in Southern Ontario and go to Bills games, from the few that have weighed in on the subject, would very likely remain Bills fans and go to Bills games. They seem to love the team and especially the atmosphere and tailgating. The ones closer to Toronto I imagine would favor the Canadian team but it's tough to say. I would be very surprised if we lost more than half of the Canadian support, and may even gain a lot of people who are not really NFL fans now but will be if Toronto gets a team and may very much like the rivalry between the two teams.
TheFunPolice Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 imagine if the Bills had gone to the AFC North like the NFL wanted... Cincinnati, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Buffalo. How cool would that be? I also think tickets would sell better. But imagine the crazy rivalries!
Wayne Cubed Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 I said this a long time ago and I have no reason to change my view: there is a 95 % chance that the Bills will move to Toronto. The fix is in. The NFL wants a team in Canada and Toronto is the only real viable option. Also, I heard from an NFL owner, in a private conversation, that the Bills are headed to Toronto. The NFL is motivated by MONEY!!! The owners are greedy and not loyal. They can make more money with a team in Toronto vs. a team in Buffalo. It is all about the money. Now as a Bills fan since day one back in 1960, I don't want this to happen. In spite of the huffing and puffing from politicians, former jocks, and community leaders they are powerless to stop it. Prepare yourselves Bills fans. There is little room for the small markets like Buffalo in the Billionaires Boys Club (aka NFL). I've said this in another thread... If the NFL is all about money, please explain how they make more money in Toronto? The NFL makes it's money on TV revenue. The NFL is already being viewed in Toronto, they have a TV deal for Canada. That money is currently already being split between the 32 teams. The Canadian version of the FCC makes it impossible for deals like DirecTV to get done. No single cable provider can have exclusive rights. A team in Toronto possibly makes the owner more money. With more businesses and more money, there is a better chance for higher tickets(which are split between home and away teams) and luxury boxes(which aren't split) This is the same argument as the Los Angeles, fans assume the NFL will make more money in LA. The NFL is already making loads of money in LA.
May Day 10 Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 The Bills have trouble selling out late season games now as it is. Pulling the Canadians away to support a Toronto team would mean almost sure death for the Bills. There are nearly 6 Million people in Toronto. They say 16% of ticket holders are canadian, right? That is about 11K people. I would venture a very small percentage of them live amongst the 6 million in Toronto. The 2 teams would serve a different clientele of fan. And the Bills have trouble selling out late games because they have been terrible for a decade and a half with very few meaningful games down the stretch.
Kirby Jackson Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 imagine if the Bills had gone to the AFC North like the NFL wanted... Cincinnati, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Buffalo. How cool would that be? I also think tickets would sell better. But imagine the crazy rivalries! I agree with this 100%. RW was one of the people fighting it because he wanted to keep the Miami rivalry. I think that the AFC North move would have been a GREAT long term move for the franchise.
TheFunPolice Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 why not have both? The trouble with any expansion is that it would throw off the entire balance of the league's current divisions. I could see a team like the Jaguars moving there before any type of expansion. Plus, that makes realignment easy. Move the Toronto Jags to the AFC East and the Dolphins to the AFC South to replace the Jags.
#34fan Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) I checked many posts and didn't see anyone address why the Argos can't be expanded to the NFL... Sure, it's ugly, confusing, Canadian football, but can't they adapt to the real thing? Edited July 29, 2014 by #34fan
CodeMonkey Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 There are nearly 6 Million people in Toronto. They say 16% of ticket holders are canadian, right? That is about 11K people. I would venture a very small percentage of them live amongst the 6 million in Toronto. The 2 teams would serve a different clientele of fan. And the Bills have trouble selling out late games because they have been terrible for a decade and a half with very few meaningful games down the stretch. There are other threads that show that even in the glory years, late season games had a hard time selling out.
ET1062 Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 WKBW Eyewitness News @WKBW 18m AP reports Scott Congel is meeting with the Bon Jovi group to explore a new #Bills stadium at the old Seneca Mall site.
May Day 10 Posted July 29, 2014 Posted July 29, 2014 (edited) There are other threads that show that even in the glory years, late season games had a hard time selling out. And I have refuted those thoughts without response time and time again. Less capacity, increased popularity of the NFL, internet/electronic sales. Reselling tickets and the art of perceived demand/reselling. Look at the Sabres. They had good teams in the early 90s too and could never sell out. Now it is perpetual sellouts and waiting lists even as the worst team. The entire event ticket industry has been completely changed over the past 10 years Plus the team hadnt yet regionalized in Rochester or Southern Ontario. I would also be interested to see the number of fans who travelled long distances (including visiting fans) back then compared to now. The Bills "prime" their ticket base with one or two electric seasons, they will need to cap STH. No doubt in my mind 1985 they had 20K some games. That grew into 80K when they were good. No we have 67K on bad days and need to sell 73K Edited July 29, 2014 by May Day 10
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