Peter Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 beat me to it. thanks. jw John - HUGE thanks for clearly exposing JBJ/Toronto group's plans for those who previously were too dumb or complicit (e.g., Ron Jaworski). This article could and should be a game changer in sale of the team. As far as I am concerned you deserve a Pulitzer and we will throw in a Nobel Peace Prize to go along with it. Great Job!
Best Player Available Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Going to see Queen in Toronto on Monday and I will be wearing my Bills Fan Thunder Bon Jovi Free Zone T-shirt to the show. just like the Bill/ Toronto series no one will notice. The intent unlike the Bills/Toronto series is honorable though.
eball Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 beat me to it. thanks. jw No, thank YOU. We're all hoping this is the torpedo needed to sink the JBJ group's ship.
papazoid Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 eventually, at some point, a Toronto based group will move this team to Canada. I do NOT trust them. they can't be trusted !! see: AP Source: NFL stadium sites explored in Toronto
TheZone78 Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Here http://bigstory.ap.o...xplored-toronto Also, I'm going to give a member I speak to frequently the ok to tell you what I told him aways back. If he chooses to post in this thread, he will. He will tell you the information I gave him. That is all. Hi all...I'm a quiet one who roves in the background...but yes I can now share what I was told on July 20th by HopefulFuture. You'll note the exact stadium cost estimates below vs. what was published today in the Wawrow piece. "We have just crossed a line in the sand here. Monday, When I get back to work, I believe we are the front runners on any new stadium should the local purchasers procure the team. The Stadium cost, and this is never to be mentioned, will exceed 890 million. How much higher it goes depends on the amenities they add to the project. But, there was a catch, it has to be tied to local development for economics."
thebandit27 Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Hi all...I'm a quiet one who roves in the background...but yes I can now share what I was told on July 20th by HopefulFuture. You'll note the exact stadium cost estimates below vs. what was published today in the Wawrow piece. "We have just crossed a line in the sand here. Monday, When I get back to work, I believe we are the front runners on any new stadium should the local purchasers procure the team. The Stadium cost, and this is never to be mentioned, will exceed 890 million. How much higher it goes depends on the amenities they add to the project. But, there was a catch, it has to be tied to local development for economics." Exactly what is this supposed to tell us other than that new stadiums typically cost in the $800M-$900M ?
RuntheDamnBall Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Anybody who sees Wawrow needs to buy him a beer for me. I'll paypal you. I'm serious. And make them put on the 'Mats at the bar.
Peter Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Anybody who sees Wawrow needs to buy him a beer for me. I'll paypal you. I'm serious. And make them put on the 'Mats at the bar. John Wawrow should not have to buy a beer in Buffalo again.
TheZone78 Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Exactly what is this supposed to tell us other than that new stadiums typically cost in the $800M-$900M ? Lots of things...tells me the question of whether or not a stadium will be financed in Buffalo is now a rubber stamp. If the rumours of the trust only taking local area owners are in fact accurate than the biggest hindrance to the Buffalo Bills staying here is already taken care of. Also shows that HopefulFuture is extremely credible. Oh and that I can keep my mouth shut. There were also rumours that the trust was looking at the JBJ group "cautiously" and "unfavourably" even before this story has broken. Edited July 24, 2014 by TheZone78
Best Player Available Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Lots of things...tells me the question of whether or not a stadium will be financed in Buffalo is now a rubber stamp. If the rumours of the trust only taking local area owners are in fact accurate than the biggest hindrance to the Buffalo Bills staying here is already taken care of. Also shows that HopefulFuture is extremely credible. Oh and that I can keep my mouth shut. There were also rumours that the trust was looking at the JBJ group "cautiously" and "unfavourably" even before this story has broken. Assuming the trust didn't know about it (in which case the assistant quoted in the article is a dumba$$) this really tips their hand. The above could be a classic example of Kool-Aid overdose.
K-9 Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 John Wawrow should not have to buy a beer in Buffalo again. So we can never shoot the messenger but can buy him all the beer he can drink? Nice gig being the messenger. GO BILLS!!!
Kirby Jackson Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Sorry, I am late to the party. A few things: -Nice work by JW digging this up -It is not going to change anything. If the Toronto group is not committed to WNY they will not win the bid. This is why they will be working on WNY sites. -The study was commissioned 18 months ago when the group thought that Toronto may be an option (before the terms of the trust were released). - The Poloncarz part was particularly interesting to me because I assumed that he was closer to the trust but apparently not. They will not sell to someone that will move the team. - I just made another call and nothing has changed. The trust is not stupid enough to think that this group did not explore Toronto before. It is just not going to be an option. With that being said no one wants this group and their chances are not good.
TheFunPolice Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 (edited) Awesome story by JW! I agree with Bulldog on WGR.... Now we see the reason for the seemingly coordinated Toronto group blitz earlier in the week. This was going to come out, and now it has. Some of us (me included) took that to mean that they were the frontrunners. Instead, it looks like it was all an attempt to preempt this news. Bottom line, nobody is going to trust them. No matter what anyone says we know their intentions. Once they own the team they will find a way. You have to be somewhat naive to actually believe that they are dedicated to keeping the team here. What they say means nothing; it's what they DO that matters. And everything they have done over the past decade has had one goal in mind: bring an NFL team to Toronto. IF they win the bid it is going to get ugly no matter what assurances anyone tries to put forward, which means they probably sunk their chances. Now, nothing says that Toronto team is necessarily the Bills. Those stadium sites could be for the Rams, for example. This whole process just gets them fast-tracked if/when that becomes a possibility. Edited July 24, 2014 by TheFunPolice
K D Posted July 24, 2014 Author Posted July 24, 2014 JW came out with this story just at the right time. Initial interest bids are being sent in and finalists are being chosen next week. This couldn't come at a better time. Bravo!
HopefulFuture Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 Nicely done JW, that punch to the gut should knock the winds out of their sales for a bit. I'm waiting for a public statement from the Toronto Group with the typical excuses, but in the end, this should put to bed any and all doubts on the groups intentions. Excellent investigative journalism here, my hats off to you.
DJasper Probincrux III Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 Oddly I just re-watched Rounders last night and this reminded me of Matt Damon at the table with John Malkovich. Reel them in reel them in reel them in, then boom drop the hammer. In case you've never seen it. NSFW language
Delete This Account Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 So we can never shoot the messenger but can buy him all the beer he can drink? Nice gig being the messenger. that and the 'Mats reference, i'm fully in favor of jw
TheFunPolice Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Say it with me: Toronto Rams The name would probably have to change Edited July 25, 2014 by TheFunPolice
Hplarrm Posted July 25, 2014 Posted July 25, 2014 I voted yes in the poll for this question not because I have some great belief in the honesty of the JBJ/Canadian group but because I have fairly strong belief that the NFL team owners will virtually always do the thing which makes them the most money. We have seen a real world demonstration of this a couple of times: 1. In the mid-80s, the owners basically destroyed the NFLPA AFL-CIO style leadership when they locked out the players and hired replacements which broke the Ed Garvey led NFLPA. However, this created an opening for a few adult minded players like Gene Upshaw to team up with smart NYC lawyers and push through an approach of threatening to decertify the NFLPA. When it became clear to the team owners that this move would force the team owners to actually compete with each other in an economic free market and ultimately make less money than if they reached agreement with the NFLPA they ran kicking and screaming to agree to a CBA with the NFLPA. Given a choice between the relative freedom of the capitalist free market or the likely bigger money for all from a social compact with the workers (and the greater certainty of bigger bucks from the TV nets, the individual owners voted to enter into a contract for the bigger bucks from the social compact. 2. A second clear step was taken when all the team owners (including Ralph) voted to require 75% approval of all team owners for a sell of the team. 3. This was further displayed when Gene Upshaw dictated before negotiations that the CBA had to A. Have a salary cap based on total gross receipts rather than designated gross and that B. the player cut of this gross had to start with a6. The final outcome in fact was for the players to receive 60.5% of the total gross. The bottomline on this is that in order to be declared the winning bid, the JBJ group will need to guarantee to 75% of team owners that they will give the current team owners the maximum profit for them. The maximum profit foe current team owners almost certainly involves keeping the team here. 1. Particularly to the source of the big bucks, the TV nets, the NFL is an entertainment product which involves telling a story well. If the Bills were to move in 6-7 years, the story told will be so maudlin and sad as the municipality of Buffalo whined and went on this slow death march it simply would be bad story telling. 2. The NFL strategy driven by the big cashcow of the TV nets seems driven by getting more eyeballs. Why not only tell a bad story but simply walk away from millions of dollars by moving the Bills to Toronto when the NFL can have its cake and eat it too by opening a new franchise in Toronto AND keep the Bills franchise alive in Buffalo. 3. Why then would the JBJ/Canadian group go through the effort of bidding for the Bills team you are cannot move? The answer is that even though this bid will ultimately fail to buy the Bills, it does add a bunch of reality to organizing the JBJ Canadian bid. By launcing this effort the JBJC group organizes its funding and becomes more familiar with the NFL decisionmakers which will allow it to hit the groundrunning hen the next round of NFL expansion happens sooner rather than later. I guess 2-3 years with Toronto, Mexico City, LA and some yet to be determined likely dot.com driven city bing the next four. I do not trust the JBJC group, I do trust the NFL/IV nets to want to maximize eyeballs and thus maximize money from car/beer/other companies. If you disagree you may be right or you might check yourself and think how is the NFL going to go about making even more money in the future. The answer is likely getting more eyeballs and also not throwing away the millions you have earned with the Bills as an original AFL team. Why toss away this real money when you do not have to and when tossing it away really messes up your story telling?
K D Posted July 25, 2014 Author Posted July 25, 2014 I stopped reading your post when you said the NFL will do whatever it can to make money so it will leave the team in Buffalo to do so. Sorry but that makes no sense. The team is worth probably almost 100% more in Toronto. It's the 4th largest city in North America. Nobody cares that the Bills are an original AFL team besides Bills fans. The Houston Oilers were too and they left town and that is the 4th biggest city in the US. And Buffalo is the 2nd smallest in the NFL. The NFL would like the team to stay (they say they want all of their teams to stay) but the fact is the team is far more valuable in Toronto
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