Know anyone with a disease? Read this

[Locomark]

On 7/18/2014 at 5:00 PM, Bob in Mich said:

(Apologies to those that saw these links in the recent marijuana thread as some on the first page of this thread are just repeats.)

I know NY recently approved medical cannabis and I thought I would post some helpful information as in Michigan we have covered much of the same ground in the last few years.

It is apparent that many posting here don't believe that cannabis can be real medicine. That is understandable given that was what most all of us were taught all of our lives. Please try to have an open mind. I promise you that you will learn a great deal.

Please check out the recent thread here on marijuana related problems increasing. http://forums.twobil...the-rise-in-us/ Look for my super intelligent comments starting on page 6 of that thread

Seriously though, this is important. I am selling nothing but I feel like I should try to spread this knowledge. No joke.

Please, if you know anyone with a chronic illness, check out this video. It will be worth it. The first couple of minutes are not representative of the rest of the documentary. You needn't watch the whole hour in one sitting. It is simply amazing

https://www.youtube....h?v=XfO_MpDm5kc

 

Edit: Seems that video link is no longer working. These documentaries are pretty good. Try them instead

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYA9EpVB2qo

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aTbnO9I-TU

Here is one of the postings from the recent marijuana thread here. I hope the links work.


Posted 16 July 2014 - 09:49 AM
Medical Cannabis has been legal in Michigan for several years. It can be a very effective medicine which has few side effects when compared to many prescription medicines. Anyone taking medication long term knows that you have to be able to tolerate the side effects of the medication in order for it to help. If you think that there are no medical benefits to cannabis beyond preventing nausea, you really need to read some more recent research because you truly could not be more mistaken.


Cannabinoids are molecules found in cannabis. There are about 85 discovered so far, only 1 of which is the much feared THC. Cannabis is effective in treating so many medical ailments because the cannabinoid molecules from the plant are nearly identical to molecules created within our own bodies called endo-cannabinoids. Through recent research we have learned that the body creates an entire network of endo-cannabinoid molecules and cannabinoid receptors in order to transfer messages between cells. The similarity of plant and animal molecules is merely a coincidence of nature but one that allows the plant to stand in and to supply the missing messenger molecules if needed.

When there is a disruption in the body's ability to create endocannabinoids, important signals don't get through and a whole host of health problems can develop. The missed message may be to stop feeding a cell that is scheduled to die. If the cannabinoid molecule is not present to pass that signal along, cells may not die when they are designed to and they can divide and metastasize out of control leading to a cancerous tumor.

The message that is missing may be to slow down the number or rate of signals to a brain or peripheral nerve cell. Perhaps they are overloaded. This is what can happen with epileptic seizures or chronic pain from damaged nerves. Missing messages can affect nearly every organ in the body.

See the website from GW Pharmaceuticals http://www.gwpharm.com and go the 'R&D' tab at the top. See the 'Product Pipeline' and the 'Therapeutic Areas' sections on the left. You very well may be amazed at the medical possibilities. By the way, this company's stock, GWPH on the Nasdaq, is up about 10 fold in the past year or so. Those are real dollars betting on the potential medicines to be extracted from the cannabis plant.

If nothing else, please take the time to scan just the table of contents from this 2006 research report on the therapeutic possibilities of cannabinoids. It may be information that would allow you to help a sick friend or relative, or possibly even yourself.

http://pharmrev.aspe...9.full.pdf html

A Glossary to Help in Deciphering the Research Studies

Thanks to poster 'in vivo' at the Michigan Medical Marijuana Association board, here is a glossary of terms with wiki links. The research reports that I link to (below) use a lot of unfamiliar terms, at least to most of us. You might find this helpful.

http://michiganmedic...44364-glossary/

Mentioned among many other maladies are diabetes, Parkinsons, arthritis, cancer, Alzheimers, asthma, IBS, hypertension, and psychiatric illness. This report is from 2006 and we have learned a lot since then. More research is desperately needed but it appears very promising that cannabis may be able to treat many illnesses.

It makes some sense that many diseases that have confounded researchers over the past 75 years are linked to cannabinoids. Due to governments' prohibition of cannabis, research on the plant and cannabinoids have basically been forbidden for those same 75 years.

I find the obsession with Cannabis very intriguing. If it gets people off medications and works for them to make them feel healthier great. However, color me a science skeptic about this panacea about it being such a cure all.  It just doesn’t pass the smell test for me yet.  My gut tells me this sudden proliferation of everything cannabis is less science and more financial. Suddenly everyone is staking their claim to grow medical marijuana and know it will be big business. I’m a skeptic about the motives.

[Wacka]

No s*** Sherlock.

[Bob in Mich]

11 hours ago, Locomark said:

I find the obsession with Cannabis very intriguing. If it gets people off medications and works for them to make them feel healthier great. However, color me a science skeptic about this panacea about it being such a cure all.  It just doesn’t pass the smell test for me yet.  My gut tells me this sudden proliferation of everything cannabis is less science and more financial. Suddenly everyone is staking their claim to grow medical marijuana and know it will be big business. I’m a skeptic about the motives.

 

On 7/20/2014 at 5:51 PM, Bob in Mich said:

Yes, there are several people here arguing against it.

 

The truth is that there is not any strongly organized medical pot movement, at least that I know of. There are some organizations but they are weak and poorly funded. State by state, laws have been changed and seemingly citizens start anew battling the same issues over again that were battled in the last state. There is little carryover from other states.

 

Money drives politics these days and most patients are sick or disabled and that equates to poor. Had cannabis had the power of the drug lobby behind it, we would all be smelling skunky these days.

 

Within the last year or so, Wall Street has been taking notice of the potential and so the latest drivers in the cannabis arena are business and profit potential. Business can often blur the medical/recreational line as so many businesses do not care. This will move the country toward legalization much faster than any compassion for the sick.

 

It is wise to recognize that the motivations of those involved in cannabis today can often color their opinions.  Those with financial interests will try to make their investments pay off.  Reminds me:  I own stock in quite a few publicly traded cannabis companies so keep that in mind when evaluating my statements as well.

 

Your post touches on a number of issues but I don't want to let my reply get out of hand.  If I forget anything in particular, let me know.

 

As you likely noticed, my post that you quoted is from 7/2014.  Motivations with promoting cannabis have evolved tremendously since the hippies of the 1960's to today's multi billion dollar companies.  There are also arguably quite different motivations too between medical cannabis promotion versus adult use promotion.

 

My motivation, after reading 6 pages of misinformation in a different (now missing) cannabis thread, was to pass along information learned in Michigan where medical use had passed, effective in 2009.  I hoped some might benefit through the presentation of additional medical options.  After a time I decided that this thread was a good repository for medical cannabis information/studies, so I continued to post in spite of, hmm let's say a lack of love around here.

 

In 2010 I went to Michigan medical cannabis farmer's market.  Initially, without dispensaries, patients signed up with growers and so I got to know several growers in the area.  Generally these growers were patients who moved into caregiving for other patients so over time it became a bit of a community.  Since these growers had been chronically ill themselves, most growers were fairly poor.  Selling overages at farmers markets became a big source of support for many growers.  Back to motivation....at that farmer's market I saw many of these growers being very generous to some patients that were browsing but apparently not able to buy much. Seeing charity at work is always a bit uplifting but to see these poor sick folks giving to poorer sicker folks was genuinely touching.  Unfortunately as patients get separated by more and more middlemen, that charitable motivation is dying out. 

 

Today's CBD craze is just that and business is the driver.  Even a long time promoter of cannabis benefits like me thinks that it is being wildly oversold.  In addition, the public's awareness of cannabinoids and their effects is still sorely lacking.  Adding cannabinoids impacts our internal endo-cannabinoid system to try to return some bodily system back into balance.  Depending on the condition, cannabis can take longer to help than today's pharma treatments.  Often the advantage can be lesser side effects than pharmaceuticals treatments.  For chronic conditions, this becomes much more significant.  So, while say a pain pill may work better for one night, if used for long term conditions, cannabis may be the better option in some form or another.  

 

Also, in order to gain acceptance, the issue was dumbed down for the public to:  THC is the bad one that gets you high but CBD is the medicinal molecule.   While that argument had some short term benefits, we are now at the point where it has become detrimental and more education is needed.  There are over a hundred cannabinoids as well as other compounds found in the plant.  Many of the medicinal/wellness benefits that are experienced from cannabis are derived from CBD, THC, CBG,etc, etc, or combinations of cannabinoids and terpenes and flavonoids found in various cannabis strains.  More research is needed as always.  And without a doubt businesses, pharma and others, are the drivers today and will be going forward.  Money talks.

[Nanker]

NSFW Opening... 

[row_33]

Just now, Nanker said:

NSFW Opening... 

 

one take...

 

 

[row_33]

what was the P-Funk tune based on a riff that some teenager walked in and played and left anonymously for a few $$

 

 

[Warren Zevon]

Packin one up for Bob! Let's go Bills!!!!

[Nanker]

Don't forget about the munchies...

 

[Bob in Mich]

https://www.leafly.com/news/health/finding-perfect-balance-how-cannabis-affects-homeostasis

 

From the article

Each cannabis strain contains a unique concoction of cannabinoids and terpenes that when consumed together, as a whole plant medicine, can deliver a wide range of effects. A patient may experience symptom relief from one or more of their symptoms, but they may also feel sleepy, high, or get the munchies.

 

Cannabis can provide significant relief for those whose conditions have a constellation of symptoms, as may be the case with migraines, fibromyalgia, and irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), but the protocol doesn’t fit seamlessly with current Western medical practice.

 

Physicians are typically trained to prescribe one drug per symptom. This can result in a layering of prescriptions, starting with drugs to manage specific symptoms followed by others to mitigate adverse effects of the first drug. This, too, might be thought of as an artificially managed form of homeostasis.

[Wacka]

I may be wrong, but I believe terpines are in terpentine.

[Bob in Mich]

Wacka, some more information on terpenes and how they may interact with cannabinoids THC and CBD, among others.

 

https://www.leafly.com/news/science-tech/terpenes-in-the-entourage-effect

 

From the article

The interaction between the two main cannabinoids, THC and CBD, is relatively well understood through years of animal and human studies. However, CBD is unlikely to be responsible for the wide array of effects reported for cannabis. So what else could be responsible for the properties that people have attributed to different strains (e.g., uplifting, sedating, creative, or relaxing)?

The primary suspect for a strain’s reported effects is terpenes.

[Wacka]

leafly.com is not science or a science journal.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Wacka

[Bob in Mich]

21 minutes ago, Wacka said:

leafly.com is not science or a science journal.

True.  It is not an apple or an elephant either.  It is a pretty good source of cannabis information though that will often provide a link to the underlying study, if that study exists.

 

If you don't read anything other than journals, you are going to miss a lot given the restrictions on cannabis research.  If your personal rules however prohibit you from reading it, please don't.  I post cannabis info that I think some may find worthwhile.  If you don't see the source that way, then don't read it.  I will be fine with that.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said:

True.  It is not an apple or an elephant either.  It is a pretty good source of cannabis information though that will often provide a link to the underlying study, if that study exists.

 

If you don't read anything other than journals, you are going to miss a lot given the restrictions on cannabis research.  If your personal rules however prohibit you from reading it, please don't.  I post cannabis info that I think some may find worthwhile.  If you don't see the source that way, then don't read it.  I will be fine with that.

 

...so in the explosion of cannibis TRULY medical or is the prime reason for its legalization as a source of tax revenues as a spinoff?.......

[Bray Wyatt]

[Bob in Mich]

17 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...so in the explosion of cannibis TRULY medical or is the prime reason for its legalization as a source of tax revenues as a spinoff?.......

There are honest to God medical properties within cannabis and I think cannabis medicines will move to be the first option with several illnesses over time.  It should be the first option primarily because generally speaking, it has fewer side effects when taken for chronic health issues.  We see that with cannabis medicines to treat pain versus opiates for instance.

 

Even with oft alleged medical properties, general acceptance was painfully slow.  The money and business angle of promoting cannabis have moved the acceptance ball much farther and faster than compassion for sick people.  With made money comes interest by the politicians too.  So, while cannabis should have moved toward acceptance due to it's medical properties, it really didn't move much until business and governments started to realize the dollars available.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Bob in Mich

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Bob in Mich said:

There are honest to God medical properties within cannabis and I think cannabis medicines will move to be the first option with several illnesses over time.  It should be the first option primarily because it is generally speaking, has fewer side effects when taken for chronic health issues.  We see that with cannabis medicines to treat pain versus opiates for instance.

 

Even with oft alleged medical properties, general acceptance was painfully slow.  The money and business angle of promoting cannabis have moved the acceptance ball much farther and faster than compassion for sick people.  With made money comes interest by the politicians too.  So, while cannabis should have moved toward acceptance due to it's medical properties, it really didn't move much until business and governments started to realize the dollars available.

 

 

...interesting....my neighbor is a Scientist at the University of Rochester.......he just formed a second company privately to study the effects of cannibis outside of the medical treatment purview.....he said the "inquiry business is booming".....shouldn't this have been the precursor to states legalizing recreational use, solely (IMO) from a tax revenue standpoint?....how about traffic safety and under the influence charges or deaths?.....border seizures from Canada into New York State are up dramatically.......to ask again, is the focal point a tax revenue grab?......

[Bob in Mich]

4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...interesting....my neighbor is a Scientist at the University of Rochester.......he just formed a second company privately to study the effects of cannibis outside of the medical treatment purview.....he said the "inquiry business is booming".....shouldn't this have been the precursor to states legalizing recreational use, solely (IMO) from a tax revenue standpoint?....how about traffic safety and under the influence charges or deaths?.....border seizures from Canada into New York State are up dramatically.......to ask again, is the focal point a tax revenue grab?......

I thought I answered your question.  Apparently not.  Perhaps you could restate it

 

Legality aside, cannabis has been being used widely since the 60's.  It has been medically legal in Cali since 96 and medically legal in many other states for a decade or more.  So, before adult-use laws, we learned a good bit from the medical legalizations.  While often stated that it hasn't been studied, it has actually been widely studied.  We do really have quite a lot of experience with it and the impact on traffic accidents and youth abuse, for instance.

[reddogblitz]

38 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said:

 

And all 50 states legally sell and tax alcohol (which is definitely a drug).

 

1 minute ago, Bob in Mich said:

Legality aside, cannabis has been being used widely since the 60's. 

 

Actually it was used long before that.  Cab Calloway had a song about it. It was legal back then too.

[Wacka]

The % of drivers in fatal car accidents with THC in their blood  doubled over a 10 year period. It was a AAA study  looking at Washington state data.