Commsvet11 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: An even more basic point: for it to be a drug, you have to isolate the active compound and study it to figure out effect, dosage, risks, side-effects. It's the difference between chewing on willow bark and taking an aspirin. This is such a good point. When they say it’s natural, so is tobacco, poppy plants, foxglove plant. When they do these studies for medical use, are they keeping track of the genetic strains of these plants? Will the effective doses really be more theuraputic when it’s all said and done? I almost hate to say it but every time I see a study it reminds me of reading a homeopathic article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPP Is Full of Racism Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Just now, Commsvet11 said: This is such a good point. When they say it’s natural, so is tobacco, poppy plants, foxglove plant. When they do these studies for medical use, are they keeping track of the genetic strains of these plants? Will the effective doses really be more theuraputic when it’s all said and done? I almost hate to say it but every time I see a study it reminds me of reading a homeopathic article idk if this is right but i think because pots a schedule 1 drug it cant be studied in the ways your asking. if it were to be rescheduled companies could be free to study things like strains and doses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commsvet11 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, row_33 said: When you have a conflict with two sides, you have to set boundaries and see what both sides are considering "already 100% proven fact with 0% doubt" libs hold about 10,000,000 things in that category that make conservatives laugh and fear they will die from laughing pot is a 100% safe and non-addictive drug that makes all things magically go away that bother you that isn't even negotiable. It may not possess addictives, but it sure does seem hard for people to just quit, for example football players that get paid millions of dollars and still can’t pass a drug test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbillievable Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, row_33 said: When you have a conflict with two sides, you have to set boundaries and see what both sides are considering "already 100% proven fact with 0% doubt" libs hold about 10,000,000 things in that category that make conservatives laugh and fear they will die from laughing pot is a 100% safe and non-addictive drug that makes all things magically go away that bother you that isn't even negotiable. The notion of a black and white world with very little grey is a typical characteristic of immature minds. It's the reason Liberals are typically younger than 30 years old. The exception to this are people who are sheltered from the "real world" by staying in "safe spaces"; like universities and their parent's basements; or mooching off society through welfare to live their dreams as artists, actors, or activists. 7 minutes ago, Commsvet11 said: It may not possess addictives, but it sure does seem hard for people to just quit, for example football players that get paid millions of dollars and still can’t pass a drug test. People forget that habits can be just as hard to break as addictions. We need re-habit centers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commsvet11 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, m_w_hunter said: idk if this is right but i think because pots a schedule 1 drug it cant be studied in the ways your asking. if it were to be rescheduled companies could be free to study things like strains and doses You would have to have FDA approval, along with the DEA It would be hard, but I’m sure somebody is willing to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Commsvet11 said: You would have to have FDA approval, along with the DEA It would be hard, but I’m sure somebody is willing to do it. GW Pharmaceuticals is taking the FDA route with Epidiolex. They have successfully completed phase 1-3 trials and gotten unanimous approval from an FDA advisory panel. If I recall, the FDA will make a decision on or before 6/27/18. After that, the DEA will decide if they will allow Epidiolex in spite of the schedule 1 designation for whole cannabis - a dual schedule. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/19/health/epidiolex-fda-cannabis-marajuana.html http://gwpharm.com/about-us/news/gw-pharmaceuticals-announces-unanimous-positive-result-fda-advisory-committee-meeting Edited May 10, 2018 by Bob in Mich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 3 hours ago, unbillievable said: The notion of a black and white world with very little grey is a typical characteristic of immature minds. It's the reason Liberals are typically younger than 30 years old. You have that backwards. Liberals are not typically under 30 people under 30 are typically liberal. Lots and lots of old liberals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted May 10, 2018 Author Share Posted May 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Commsvet11 said: For a drug to be used in a medical treatment to be effective it has to have maximum theauraputic benefits with minimum adverse side effects. A route of administration is another factor the fastest being IV administration. Oral in particular pill form is a popular one. So if the FDA one day wants to approve marijuana for medical treatment, you all realize you won’t be smoking it right? It would be probably be in pill form. My point is if you want legalize it for recreational drug use go for it, but if all you want to do is smoke it, medical angle might backfire. NY medical cannabis dispensary Pharmacannis currently offers vaporizor cartridges as well as cannabis concentrate capsules and tinctures. While things appear to be changing, NY does not currently offer raw cannabis in dispensaries http://www.pharmacannis.com/sites/default/files/ProductList_4.24.2018-01.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commsvet11 Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 18 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: NY medical cannabis dispensary Pharmacannis currently offers vaporizor cartridges as well as cannabis concentrate capsules and tinctures. While things appear to be changing, NY does not currently offer raw cannabis in dispensaries http://www.pharmacannis.com/sites/default/files/ProductList_4.24.2018-01.pdf Very interesting, looks like they are on their way medically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 Dateline Sunday had a medical cannabis segment. I have just started watching it https://www.nbc.com/dateline/video/growing-promise/3724415 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 On 5/10/2018 at 11:16 AM, Commsvet11 said: For a drug to be used in a medical treatment to be effective it has to have maximum theauraputic benefits with minimum adverse side effects. A route of administration is another factor the fastest being IV administration. Oral in particular pill form is a popular one. So if the FDA one day wants to approve marijuana for medical treatment, you all realize you won’t be smoking it right? It would be probably be in pill form. My point is if you want legalize it for recreational drug use go for it, but if all you want to do is smoke it, medical angle might backfire. All they want to do is smoke it, and then not feel guilty because it might "cure a disease." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: All they want to do is smoke it, and then not feel guilty because it might "cure a disease." I gotta call BS on your claim of being a doctor. Or, if you are in fact a a doctor, please get out of that line of work. Someone unwilling to change their opinion in the face of new information, has no business treating people. Step aside for younger, brighter doctors who are willing to adapt. It would be best for your patients, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: I gotta call BS on your claim of being a doctor. Or, if you are in fact a a doctor, please get out of that line of work. Someone unwilling to change their opinion in the face of new information, has no business treating people. Step aside for younger, brighter doctors who are willing to adapt. It would be best for your patients, imo. You don't know what you're talking about, per usual. "Willing to adapt?" To what new double blinded trial? What diseases is marijuana FDA approved as first line treatment, again? Oh actually, let me fill you in Bobby. There's a new diagnosis coming down the pipeline. Cannabis use disorder. Uh oh! Edited May 22, 2018 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) Let's talk Cannabis and adaptation, okay Bobbo? "Adolescent cannabis use is strongly associated with lower educational attainment and increased use of other drugs" "Cannabis acutely impairs a variety of neuropsychological functions in a dose-dependent manner, especially attention, concentration, episodic memory, and associative learning" "A systematic review and meta-analysis of 69 cross-sectional studies of adolescents and young adults (2152 cannabis users and 6575 comparison participants) showed a small overall effect size for reduced cognitive functioning in frequent cannabis users" "A linear regression analysis that excluded current cannabis users and controlled for age, use of tobacco, alcohol, and other illegal drugs, and baseline cognitive function found cumulative lifetime cannabis use significantly associated with impaired verbal memory, but not with processing speed or executive function." "A national registry study that identified 1492 patients who received a diagnosis of cannabis-induced psychosis in the Danish Psychiatric Central Research Register between 1994 and 2014 and followed them through August 2014 found a 41.2 percent (95% CI 36.6-46.2) conversion rate to schizophrenia, with 50 percent of men converting within 2.0 years and 50 percent of women within 4.4 years. The hazard ratio for conversion to schizophrenia, compared with matched comparison subjects without a history of substance-induced psychosis, was 101.7 (95% CI 74.1-139.7)." "There is substantial evidence that chronic cannabis use, especially during adolescence, is associated with later development of schizophrenia." "A systematic review of 35 longitudinal studies found an increased risk of psychosis for those who ever used cannabis compared with those who did not (adjusted odds ratio 1.41, 95% CI 1.20-1.65). There was a significant dose-response relationship, with a twofold increase in risk among those who used cannabis most frequently (odds ratio 2.09, 95% CI 1.54-2.84). The review adjusted for several known confounding factors and excluded cohorts with identified mental illness or substance use problems at baseline." "A prospective longitudinal study of 6534 individuals born in northern Finland in 1986 and evaluated at age 15 to 16 years and again at age 30 years found an increased risk of psychosis for those who used cannabis at least five times by age 15 to 16 years, compared with those who had never used. The analysis adjusted for several known confounding factors (eg, prodromal psychosis symptoms at baseline, parental psychosis, frequent alcohol use, daily tobacco smoking) and excluded individuals with a psychosis diagnosis at first evaluation." "Most, but not all, prospective longitudinal studies have found that cannabis use or cannabis use disorder is associated with subsequent development of depression or bipolar disorder." "2014 meta-analysis of 14 prospective longitudinal studies that controlled for depression at baseline found that heavy cannabis users had a 1.62 odds ratio (95% CI 1.21-2.16) for developing clinically diagnosed major depression or depressive symptoms, compared with light or nonusers" "A meta-analysis of two studies of individuals with bipolar disorder found cannabis use associated with a threefold increased risk (odds ratio = 2.97, 95% CI 1.80-4.90) for new onset of manic symptoms" And that's not even touching the autonomic stuff. I have 3 more pages of data to bash you over the head with. Tell me to get out of the line of work again @Bob in Mich. There's a reason I went to school, and you link Youtube videos from LeafyGreen.net. Edited May 22, 2018 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 it's addictive and harmful and using it for more than purely recreational use is going to destroy you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 22 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: You don't know what you're talking about, per usual. "Willing to adapt?" To what new double blinded trial? What diseases is marijuana FDA approved as first line treatment, again? Oh actually, let me fill you in Bobby. There's a new diagnosis coming down the pipeline. Cannabis use disorder. Uh oh! It's simple. If cannabis use is causing a disorder, cure it with more cannabis! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) 59 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: You don't know what you're talking about, per usual. "Willing to adapt?" To what new double blinded trial? What diseases is marijuana FDA approved as first line treatment, again? Oh actually, let me fill you in Bobby. There's a new diagnosis coming down the pipeline. Cannabis use disorder. Uh oh! Please, give up your medical license. You are an idiot, to borrow a popular phrase. You know though, maybe you are a doctor. You seem pretty concerned with covering your ass. Having problems getting malpractice insurance after that regrettable incident, are ya? lol You really should include sources when you quote study results. Let's say at least some of your stats are accurate, just for argument's sake. No one is suggesting replacing breakfast cereal with cannabis. No one is saying it is harmless. No one is advocating widespread adolescent use either, though there is this recent study. https://www.livescience.com/61574-adolescent-cannabis-use-memory-study.html What I have stated is when current FDA options are not effective or when the side effects are too horrible, cannabis should be considered as a reasonable alternative. I also think that time will prove that the use of cannabis medicines, in many cases, should be tried before today's FDA approved front line treatments for many maladies. Closed minded doctors are doing a disservice to their patients. The main problem I see with the bulk of your stats is that we should see corresponding spikes in these cannabis side effects with increased cannabis use in a given population. Consider the hypothesis that cannabis causes schizophrenia. With increased cannabis usage we should see a spike in schizophrenia, but we do not see that. The same point I made to you a few pages ago when you pulled out your cannabis heart failure studies. We all know that the federal scheduling hasn't allowed widespread testing of cannabis for it's acclaimed medical effects - the GW Pharmaceuticals clinical trials being the exception. Let me ask you, can you point to US double blinded trials that proved that the medical claims regarding cannabis were false? Please don't use studies sponsored by the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA) due to the inherent bias. Thanks internet doc. Edited May 22, 2018 by Bob in Mich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 45 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: Let's talk Cannabis and adaptation, okay Bobbo? "Adolescent cannabis use is strongly associated with lower educational attainment and increased use of other drugs" "Cannabis acutely impairs a variety of neuropsychological functions in a dose-dependent manner, especially attention, concentration, episodic memory, and associative learning" "A systematic review and meta-analysis of 69 cross-sectional studies of adolescents and young adults (2152 cannabis users and 6575 comparison participants) showed a small overall effect size for reduced cognitive functioning in frequent cannabis users" "A linear regression analysis that excluded current cannabis users and controlled for age, use of tobacco, alcohol, and other illegal drugs, and baseline cognitive function found cumulative lifetime cannabis use significantly associated with impaired verbal memory, but not with processing speed or executive function." "A national registry study that identified 1492 patients who received a diagnosis of cannabis-induced psychosis in the Danish Psychiatric Central Research Register between 1994 and 2014 and followed them through August 2014 found a 41.2 percent (95% CI 36.6-46.2) conversion rate to schizophrenia, with 50 percent of men converting within 2.0 years and 50 percent of women within 4.4 years. The hazard ratio for conversion to schizophrenia, compared with matched comparison subjects without a history of substance-induced psychosis, was 101.7 (95% CI 74.1-139.7)." "There is substantial evidence that chronic cannabis use, especially during adolescence, is associated with later development of schizophrenia." "A systematic review of 35 longitudinal studies found an increased risk of psychosis for those who ever used cannabis compared with those who did not (adjusted odds ratio 1.41, 95% CI 1.20-1.65). There was a significant dose-response relationship, with a twofold increase in risk among those who used cannabis most frequently (odds ratio 2.09, 95% CI 1.54-2.84). The review adjusted for several known confounding factors and excluded cohorts with identified mental illness or substance use problems at baseline." "A prospective longitudinal study of 6534 individuals born in northern Finland in 1986 and evaluated at age 15 to 16 years and again at age 30 years found an increased risk of psychosis for those who used cannabis at least five times by age 15 to 16 years, compared with those who had never used. The analysis adjusted for several known confounding factors (eg, prodromal psychosis symptoms at baseline, parental psychosis, frequent alcohol use, daily tobacco smoking) and excluded individuals with a psychosis diagnosis at first evaluation." "Most, but not all, prospective longitudinal studies have found that cannabis use or cannabis use disorder is associated with subsequent development of depression or bipolar disorder." "2014 meta-analysis of 14 prospective longitudinal studies that controlled for depression at baseline found that heavy cannabis users had a 1.62 odds ratio (95% CI 1.21-2.16) for developing clinically diagnosed major depression or depressive symptoms, compared with light or nonusers" "A meta-analysis of two studies of individuals with bipolar disorder found cannabis use associated with a threefold increased risk (odds ratio = 2.97, 95% CI 1.80-4.90) for new onset of manic symptoms" And that's not even touching the autonomic stuff. I have 3 more pages of data to bash you over the head with. Tell me to get out of the line of work again @Bob in Mich. There's a reason I went to school, and you link Youtube videos from LeafyGreen.net. You know what the cure is for all of this? MORE POT! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Koko78 said: You know what the cure is for all of this? MORE POT! I just posted this above. Is your short term memory so poor that......................................................snzzzzzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I just posted this above. Is your short term memory so poor that......................................................snzzzzzzzzzz You were referencing cannabis use disorder. I was talking about how I need Doritos now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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