John Adams Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 (edited) Who cares? Is there someone here arguing against medical pot? Anyone? But let me repeat my question: Is the goal of the medical pot movement medicine or free pot for everyone? Answer honestly. We all know it's a ruse for the stoners to get easier weed access. Do you admit it or will you keep up with the "medical" propaganda? Edited July 20, 2014 by John Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted July 20, 2014 Author Share Posted July 20, 2014 Yes, there are several people here arguing against it. The truth is that there is not any strongly organized medical pot movement, at least that I know of. There are some organizations but they are weak and poorly funded. State by state, laws have been changed and seemingly citizens start anew battling the same issues over again that were battled in the last state. There is little carryover from other states. Money drives politics these days and most patients are sick or disabled and that equates to poor. Had cannabis had the power of the drug lobby behind it, we would all be smelling skunky these days. Within the last year or so, Wall Street has been taking notice of the potential and so the latest drivers in the cannabis arena are business and profit potential. Business can often blur the medical/recreational line as so many businesses do not care. This will move the country toward legalization much faster than any compassion for the sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 20, 2014 Share Posted July 20, 2014 Yes, there are several people here arguing against it. The truth is that there is not any strongly organized medical pot movement, at least that I know of. There are some organizations but they are weak and poorly funded. State by state, laws have been changed and seemingly citizens start anew battling the same issues over again that were battled in the last state. There is little carryover from other states. Money drives politics these days and most patients are sick or disabled and that equates to poor. Had cannabis had the power of the drug lobby behind it, we would all be smelling skunky these days. Within the last year or so, Wall Street has been taking notice of the potential and so the latest drivers in the cannabis arena are business and profit potential. Business can often blur the medical/recreational line as so many businesses do not care. This will move the country toward legalization much faster than any compassion for the sick. Yes, there are several people here arguing against it. Who? I've been arguing against your BS claims, not the legalization of medical marijuana. Wall Street has been taking notice of the potential and so the latest drivers in the cannabis arena are business and profit potential. Business can often blur the medical/recreational line as so many businesses do not care. This will move the country toward legalization much faster than any compassion for the sick. Can you explain to me what this means? What potential does Wall Street see? What Wall Street groups are backing state legalization laws? Since when is cannabis the only medicine driven by profit? How does business blur the lines between medical and recreational use? What do they not care about, who uses it or if it works? Compassion won't move the country towards legalization for recreational use or medical use? Would you be okay with marijuana being completely legal with a prescription, but completely illegal without one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Who is arguing against legalization on this board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Tell ya what Chano, take a deep breath and consider if you actually want anything answered or you just want to agitate. At the moment I question your sincerity. I'll start ya off on the business angle of cannabis growth and you can research from here or not. Exponential sales growth is forecast in industries that supply cannabis, process cannabis, vaporize cannabis, and a hundred different ancillary businesses that can grow up around this industry. Everyone and their brother is starting cannabis related companies and investors flocked to put money into them. They have spiked and fallen and spiked and fallen a few times. It is a pending green rush that is just waiting on the the right time. It is a sector that is driven by news and makes huge moves when it moves. Here are some of the companies in the sector. http://www.marijuanaindex.org/ "daily marijuana smoking is a risk factor for progression of fibrosis among people with chronic hepatitis C infection" Someone with Hep C? Marijuana can cure that **** probably! Heart condition? Oh, don't bother telling your doctor you're using marijuana behind his back, you'll be cured in no time! The wonder drug, coming with horrific side-effects to a pharmacy near you! Just make sure you don't tell your doctor about it! Oh, I almost forgot. Here is a more recent study on cannabis and liver function. Check it out. Marijuana smoking does not appear to cause progression of liver fibrosis in the Canadian HIV/HCV Co-infection Cohort study April 2012 Authors:Brunet L, Moodie EE, Rollet K, Tyndall M, Potter M, Conway B, Walmsley S, Pick N, Cooper C, Cox J, Klein MB for the Canadian Co-infection Cohort (CTN222) Location: 21st Annual Canadian Conference on HIV/AIDS Research (CAHR 2012) Montreal Background: The literature on the effect of cannabis on liver diseases is conflicting. Cell cultures and animal model studies conclude that cannabidiol could have a therapeutic effect on liver injuries. However, cross-sectional studies of chronic HCV patients suggest that daily cannabis use is associated with fibrosis and steatosis. This study aims at estimating the causal effect of marijuana use on liver fibrosis progression in the Canadian Co-infection Cohort study. Conclusion: Marijuana smoking does not have a causal effect on progression to liver disease in co-infected individuals. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3739469/ Edited July 21, 2014 by Bob in Mich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Tell ya what Chano, take a deep breath and consider if you actually want anything answered or you just want to agitate. At the moment I question your sincerity. I'll start ya off on the business angle of cannabis growth and you can research from here or not. Exponential sales growth is forecast in industries that supply cannabis, process cannabis, vaporize cannabis, and a hundred different ancillary businesses that can grow up around this industry. Everyone and their brother is starting cannabis related companies and investors flocked to put money into them. They have spiked and fallen and spiked and fallen a few times. It is a pending green rush that is just waiting on the the right time. It is a sector that is driven by news and makes huge moves when it moves. Here are some of the companies in the sector. http://www.marijuanaindex.org/ Oh, I almost forgot. Here is a more recent study on cannabis and liver function. Check it out. Marijuana smoking does not appear to cause progression of liver fibrosis in the Canadian HIV/HCV Co-infection Cohort study April 2012 Authors:Brunet L, Moodie EE, Rollet K, Tyndall M, Potter M, Conway B, Walmsley S, Pick N, Cooper C, Cox J, Klein MB for the Canadian Co-infection Cohort (CTN222) Location: 21st Annual Canadian Conference on HIV/AIDS Research (CAHR 2012) Montreal Background: The literature on the effect of cannabis on liver diseases is conflicting. Cell cultures and animal model studies conclude that cannabidiol could have a therapeutic effect on liver injuries. However, cross-sectional studies of chronic HCV patients suggest that daily cannabis use is associated with fibrosis and steatosis. This study aims at estimating the causal effect of marijuana use on liver fibrosis progression in the Canadian Co-infection Cohort study. Conclusion: Marijuana smoking does not have a causal effect on progression to liver disease in co-infected individuals. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3739469/ Are you a scientist? Because, if you were, one study with a this, "Although the relatively short follow-up time and the lack of information on duration of smoking before cohort entry do not allow us to make inference about long-term use of marijuana," as a disclaimer, wouldn't have been used to proved your point. If you haven't reached my point yet, (even though I've been making it all along), I don't believe medical marijuana is as miraculous as you say. You claim it might cure numerous diseases, but I haven't seen the data for that. You say it doesn't have side-effects like vicodin, but I'm sure that will change as well. With your promotion of hiding your drug use from your doctor, I'm inclined to believe you are not a health-care professional. And that everything you say needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Edited July 21, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 Chano, I never claimed to be a health care professional. I no longer care what you believe. It is clear to me that it is not worth the effort that I have put into trying to help you. You have been wasting my time Still unconvinced? I'm OK with that outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Chano, I never claimed to be a health care professional. I no longer care what you believe. It is clear to me that it is not worth the effort that I have put into trying to help you. You have been wasting my time Still unconvinced? I'm OK with that outcome. Help me how? By telling me things that are incorrect or unproven to "open my mind to medical marijuana?" I'm doing a public service to ensure no one thinks you're an authority on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Some more good news. Illinois children and adults with epilepsy will soon be allowed to treat with cannabis. http://news.msn.com/...n-with-seizures Here's an 8 minute video of another recent child epilepsy success story http://www.webmd.com/news/breaking-news/marijuana-on-main-street/medical-marijuana Edited July 22, 2014 by Bob in Mich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) Some more good news. Illinois children and adults with epilepsy will soon be allowed to treat with cannabis. http://news.msn.com/...n-with-seizures Love your passion and will evaluate your links (somewhat). Your posting has started to become a crusade though. Might want to read your TOS too. Edited July 21, 2014 by 3rdnlng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Love your passion and will evaluate your links (somewhat). Your posting has started to become a crusade though. Might want to read your TOS too. The TOS barely apply here and at least the stoner is trying to confine his unneeded crusade to a single thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I genuinely look forward to the day when pot smokers get the legal dope they insist is needed to help sick people, only to watch taxes and regulation blow prices through the roof for middle-class smokers. Be careful what you wish for from the government, smokers, as you will surely get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Welcome back HogBoy. It's been quite some time, hasn't it? You sure do know how to string folks along. Your work is Crayonz worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) OK, if you have watched or read about cannabinoids and cannabinoid receptors, you now know that they are in animals too, including pets. After the jokes die down, if you have an older pet with health issues, it may be worth further research. Note, I am not any sort of medical professional. If your pet is tolerating its medicine well and it is effective, certainly do not change anything. At this point my non-professional opinion would be to consider this option when there isn't really much else that your vet can do. DO NOT FORCE SMOKE INTO YOUR PET'S FACE. I am talking about cannabis based medicines, such as glycerin tinctures, for pets, especially pets nearing the end of their life. Or, the concentrated oil can be smeared onto treats or even right onto the teeth of a pet that has no appetite. It will be absorbed through the tissues in the mouth as it melts. Capsules can easily be made from the concentrates if your pet can take them. Start with the tiniest of dosages and work up to an effective dose. Why would anyone do that to their pet, right? Well, as with people, it largely has to do with positive effects and lack of negative side effects. The big three positive effects I suppose are pain reduction, appetite stimulation, and restful sleep. As with people too, an animal will need a few doses to get used to the medicine and may lose some coordination with the initial doses. Be careful around stairs or drop-offs. Watch the animal until it falls asleep. If given a large dose be watchful as the pet could wet the bed. They sleep very soundly and typically wake up, go outside to do some business, come in, and head to their food bowl. I guess it shouldn't be all that surprising that veterinarians haven't started reusing it as medicine, at least the vast majority of them. Few enough doctors believe in the benefits and people are telling them directly. Not many dogs are talking, even after ingesting cannabis. I want to mention one, certain to be doubted effect that I witnessed first hand. The concentrated cannabis oil, when repeatedly applied over the course of a month or two, can shrink mast cell tumors on the skin of a dog. My dog, due to anesthesia problems could not withstand more surgery. I had read about this cannabis possibility, had the oil on hand, and so started melting my dog's leg tumor over the course of six weeks. When I returned to the same vet that had refused to remove the growth under a local, he was very surprised and wanted to know what I had done. I only took the dog to clean the wound because it now appeared that he was going to survive for a while and I was afraid that it might get infected. After cleaning up the wound area, the vet said, "the growth was now hanging on by a thread, so I removed it and sewed it up" Several months later I had to put the dog down. Eventually his problems compounded and I couldn't take watching the struggle. On his last morning before our ride to the vet however, he had a good appetite. ------------------------------------------ Here were some historical veterinary uses of cannabis http://antiquecannabisbook.com/chap14/Veterinary.htm Edited August 31, 2014 by Bob in Mich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 ... may lose some coordination ... could wet the bed...will sleep very soundly and typically wake up, go outside to do some business, come in, and head to their food bowl. This is also referred to around here as going full gatorman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Welcome back HogBoy. It's been quite some time, hasn't it? You sure do know how to string folks along. Your work is Crayonz worthy. Not sure anyone besides Chan is taking him seriously. Potheads campaigning for pot freedom don't get a lot of love here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 If you haven't reached my point yet, (even though I've been making it all along), I don't believe medical marijuana is as miraculous as you say. You claim it might cure numerous diseases, but I haven't seen the data for that. You say it doesn't have side-effects like vicodin, but I'm sure that will change as well. Courtesy of drugs.com Side effects of vicodin, just for comparison purposes: Some side effects of Vicodin may not be reported. Always consult your doctor or healthcare specialist for medical advice. You may also report side effects to the FDA. For the Consumer Applies to acetaminophen / hydrocodone: oral capsule, oral elixir, oral liquid, oral solution, oral syrup, oral tablet Along with its needed effects, acetaminophen / hydrocodone may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention. Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur while taking acetaminophen / hydrocodone: More common Dizziness lightheadedness Incidence not known Back, leg, or stomach pains black, tarry stools bleeding gums blood in the urine or stools blood in vomit bluish lips or skin chills choking cough or hoarseness dark urine decrease in the frequency of urination decrease in urine volume difficult or troubled breathing difficulty in passing urine (dribbling) difficulty with breathing difficulty with swallowing fast heartbeat fever fever with or without chills general body swelling general feeling of tiredness or weakness headache irregular, fast or slow, or shallow breathing light-colored stools loss of appetite lower back or side pain nausea or vomiting nosebleeds not breathing painful or difficult urination pale or blue lips, fingernails, or skin pinpoint red spots on the skin puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue severe or continuing stomach pain shortness of breath or troubled breathing skin rash, hives, or itching sore throat sore tongue sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth tightness in the chest unable to speak unusual bleeding or bruising unusual tiredness or weakness upper right abdominal or stomach pain yellow eyes and skin Get emergency help immediately if any of the following symptoms of overdose occur while taking acetaminophen / hydrocodone: Symptoms of overdose Bloody or cloudy urine change in consciousness chest pain or discomfort cold and clammy skin decreased awareness or responsiveness extreme drowsiness general feeling of discomfort or illness increased sweating irregular heartbeat lightheadedness, dizziness, or fainting loss of consciousness no blood pressure or pulse no muscle tone or movement not breathing severe sleepiness slow or irregular heartbeat stopping of heart sudden decrease in the amount of urine unconsciousness unpleasant breath odor Some side effects of acetaminophen / hydrocodone may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects. Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them: More common Drowsiness relaxed and calm sleepiness Incidence not known Belching changes in mood difficulty having a bowel movement (stool) fear or nervousness feeling of indigestion hearing loss impaired hearing pain in the chest below the breastbone unusual drowsiness, dullness, tiredness, weakness, or feeling of sluggishness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 The horse is dead troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted July 21, 2014 Author Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) This troll, me, has been a member on here since 2001 - about 3 years longer than you, Mr Adams. So, bite me. From my perspective you and Chano are the disruptive trolls in this thread. For God's sake, 7 posts ago (just 2 of them mine), you defended my right to post here. What happened? It is just information. Don't read the post if you aren't interested. How easy is that solution? Last I looked there were over 600 views so maybe there were readers that were interested other than you. Was it the information on pets or.....Oh, I see! You must be a pharmacy rep and didn't like that tidbit on the vicodin side-effects, was that it? Edited July 22, 2014 by Bob in Mich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Courtesy of drugs.com Side effects of vicodin, just for comparison purposes: Some side effects of Vicodin may not be reported. Always consult your doctor or healthcare specialist for medical advice. You may also report side effects to the FDA. For the Consumer Applies to acetaminophen / hydrocodone: oral capsule, oral elixir, oral liquid, oral solution, oral syrup, oral tablet Along with its needed effects, acetaminophen / hydrocodone may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention. Check with your doctor immediately if any of the following side effects occur while taking acetaminophen / hydrocodone: More common Dizziness lightheadedness Incidence not known Back, leg, or stomach pains black, tarry stools bleeding gums blood in the urine or stools blood in vomit bluish lips or skin chills choking cough or hoarseness dark urine decrease in the frequency of urination decrease in urine volume difficult or troubled breathing difficulty in passing urine (dribbling) difficulty with breathing difficulty with swallowing fast heartbeat fever fever with or without chills general body swelling general feeling of tiredness or weakness headache irregular, fast or slow, or shallow breathing light-colored stools loss of appetite lower back or side pain nausea or vomiting nosebleeds not breathing painful or difficult urination pale or blue lips, fingernails, or skin pinpoint red spots on the skin puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue severe or continuing stomach pain shortness of breath or troubled breathing skin rash, hives, or itching sore throat sore tongue sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or in the mouth tightness in the chest unable to speak unusual bleeding or bruising unusual tiredness or weakness upper right abdominal or stomach pain yellow eyes and skin Get emergency help immediately if any of the following symptoms of overdose occur while taking acetaminophen / hydrocodone: Symptoms of overdose Bloody or cloudy urine change in consciousness chest pain or discomfort cold and clammy skin decreased awareness or responsiveness extreme drowsiness general feeling of discomfort or illness increased sweating irregular heartbeat lightheadedness, dizziness, or fainting loss of consciousness no blood pressure or pulse no muscle tone or movement not breathing severe sleepiness slow or irregular heartbeat stopping of heart sudden decrease in the amount of urine unconsciousness unpleasant breath odor Some side effects of acetaminophen / hydrocodone may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects. Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them: More common Drowsiness relaxed and calm sleepiness Incidence not known Belching changes in mood difficulty having a bowel movement (stool) fear or nervousness feeling of indigestion hearing loss impaired hearing pain in the chest below the breastbone unusual drowsiness, dullness, tiredness, weakness, or feeling of sluggishness I got trolled. ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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