aristocrat Posted May 12 Posted May 12 4 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Wrong. I never claimed it was only republicans causing violence. That’s just projection on your part. My claim is that more guns = more gun deaths. Which is correct and supported by the data. The only reason I mentioned anything about parties is to refute the obviously wrong claim that Dems drive violence. but the members of your party are the ones commuting the higher rates of violence. Why? Since you’re the data guy explain why the data shows the higher rates of gun crimes for certain groups of people? It’s against the law to use a gun in a crime.
Orlando Buffalo Posted May 12 Posted May 12 54 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: You answer but your answer makes no sense and isn’t backed by reality or data. I find it hilarious that you accuse *me* of cherry picking when that’s all you’ve got. It’s literally what you’re doing right now. We know state laws do have impacts on crime, studies show this. You ignore it because it doesn’t fit the answer you want to be true. If Dems caused violence, NYC would be the most violent place in the country. The most dangerous places would be ones controlled entirely by the Dems. But they aren’t, so you’re just flat wrong. I will explain one last time in the simplest way I can. Having a local Dem controlled government is a requirement for a high violent crime rate. The fact that you can't show me ONE example to counter my factual statement, that liberal cities are more violent then the surrounding conservative areas, is not something I need a study to tell me. You are either not intelligent enough or too politically bent to recognize that conservative areas do not have similar crime rates to liberal ones, and arguing otherwise is insane. 31 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Wrong. I never claimed it was only republicans causing violence. That’s just projection on your part. My claim is that more guns = more gun deaths. Which is correct and supported by the data. The only reason I mentioned anything about parties is to refute the obviously wrong claim that Dems drive violence. Truly your entire point is guns are needed for gun deaths? So when we eliminate guns and knives become the primary weapon of murder will you want to ban them also?
ChiGoose Posted May 12 Posted May 12 3 hours ago, aristocrat said: but the members of your party are the ones commuting the higher rates of violence. Why? Since you’re the data guy explain why the data shows the higher rates of gun crimes for certain groups of people? It’s against the law to use a gun in a crime. If your contention is that Republicans cause violent crime, the fact that urban liberal areas have high crime rates proves you wrong. If your contention is that Democrats cause violent crime, the fact that it is states run by Republicans that have the highest homicide rates proves you wrong. If your contention is that more guns means more gun deaths, the fact that the most violent places are urban areas where guns are easier to obtain fits your theory quite nicely.
BillsFanNC Posted May 12 Posted May 12 3 hours ago, aristocrat said: Well your claim is it’s only republicans doing the violence. These groups of people aren’t republicans. They vote democrat. So perhaps instead of blaming republicans change your tune. Don’t be a ***** moron. You might as well ask water to not be wet.
aristocrat Posted May 12 Posted May 12 10 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: If your contention is that Republicans cause violent crime, the fact that urban liberal areas have high crime rates proves you wrong. If your contention is that Democrats cause violent crime, the fact that it is states run by Republicans that have the highest homicide rates proves you wrong. If your contention is that more guns means more gun deaths, the fact that the most violent places are urban areas where guns are easier to obtain fits your theory quite nicely. mom saying there are certain groups choosing to cause violent crimes more than others the laws aren’t causing them to commit crimes. Perhaps they should stop choosing to commit gun crimes?
ChiGoose Posted May 12 Posted May 12 2 minutes ago, aristocrat said: mom saying there are certain groups choosing to cause violent crimes more than others the laws aren’t causing them to commit crimes. Perhaps they should stop choosing to commit gun crimes? How’d they get the guns?
aristocrat Posted May 12 Posted May 12 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: How’d they get the guns? They usually steal them or use straw buyers both of which are illegal to do. You should tell them to stop choosing to commit crimes so we can have a proper society. 1
ChiGoose Posted May 12 Posted May 12 29 minutes ago, aristocrat said: They usually steal them or use straw buyers both of which are illegal to do. You should tell them to stop choosing to commit crimes so we can have a proper society. How come they are able to steal so many guns?
aristocrat Posted May 12 Posted May 12 10 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: How come they are able to steal so many guns? Because lots of people are choosing to commit crimes. This isn’t hard. Stop committing crimes and there’s no crime 1
ChiGoose Posted May 12 Posted May 12 5 hours ago, aristocrat said: Because lots of people are choosing to commit crimes. This isn’t hard. Stop committing crimes and there’s no crime Well, wishing isn’t really an effective policy. Maybe if there were better safe storage laws across the country, fewer guns would be stolen to be used in crimes. Mandatory reporting of stolen guns would probably help as well.
aristocrat Posted May 13 Posted May 13 32 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Well, wishing isn’t really an effective policy. Maybe if there were better safe storage laws across the country, fewer guns would be stolen to be used in crimes. Mandatory reporting of stolen guns would probably help as well. shooting people is illegal and plenty of laws against it. Stealing a gun is illegal, straw purchases are illegal. Why not figure out why these people kill people at impressive rates? Have you thought about that? You’re a self proclaimed data guy right?
Pokebball Posted May 13 Posted May 13 39 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Well, wishing isn’t really an effective policy. Tell your liberal DAs 1
ChiGoose Posted May 13 Posted May 13 2 hours ago, aristocrat said: shooting people is illegal and plenty of laws against it. Stealing a gun is illegal, straw purchases are illegal. Why not figure out why these people kill people at impressive rates? Have you thought about that? You’re a self proclaimed data guy right? Why do you think that people commit crimes?
AlBUNDY4TDS Posted May 13 Posted May 13 7 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Why do you think that people commit crimes? Because it's easy route. 2
aristocrat Posted May 13 Posted May 13 7 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Why do you think that people commit crimes? why do you answer questions with a questio?
ChiGoose Posted May 13 Posted May 13 7 hours ago, aristocrat said: why do you answer questions with a questio? Just trying to get a better understanding of your position while also trying to arrive at root causes that may be actionable through policy. It’s very common for people to say “you’re a conservative so you believe X, Y, and Z” or “you’re a liberal so you believe A, B, C,” and I think that’s bad for discourse and understanding where people are actually coming from. I would rather let them tell me what they believe than for me to just assume it based on what bucket I’ve mentally sorted them into. Additionally, I find root cause analysis tools like the 5 Whys to be helpful at drilling down at what’s actually causing an issue. Helps to avoid just retreating to priors. 1
Tommy Callahan Posted May 13 Posted May 13 7 hours ago, aristocrat said: why do you answer questions with a questio? Cause it wanted to throw the canned script at you and it needed the narrative flipped first. And then it just runs with insane strawman. 1
ChiGoose Posted May 13 Posted May 13 Tommy Eyerolls sticking to his script. Locking in the talking points to keep himself from having to actually think. 1
aristocrat Posted May 13 Posted May 13 3 hours ago, ChiGoose said: Just trying to get a better understanding of your position while also trying to arrive at root causes that may be actionable through policy. It’s very common for people to say “you’re a conservative so you believe X, Y, and Z” or “you’re a liberal so you believe A, B, C,” and I think that’s bad for discourse and understanding where people are actually coming from. I would rather let them tell me what they believe than for me to just assume it based on what bucket I’ve mentally sorted them into. Additionally, I find root cause analysis tools like the 5 Whys to be helpful at drilling down at what’s actually causing an issue. Helps to avoid just retreating to priors. until you treat the cause of these people killing people with no regard we just keep spinning our wheels. You want to keep passing these laws but it doesn’t fix sociopaths. 2
ChiGoose Posted May 13 Posted May 13 (edited) 16 minutes ago, aristocrat said: until you treat the cause of these people killing people with no regard we just keep spinning our wheels. You want to keep passing these laws but it doesn’t fix sociopaths. There’s actually a lot of ways to prevent these sociopaths from murdering people with guns. Side bonus: several of them also reduce suicides and accidental deaths: On 4/23/2024 at 11:41 AM, ChiGoose said: I don't think there's a single reason why firearm deaths are increasing. It's probably a confluence of multiple factors. However, we do know ways to reduce them: Child-access prevention laws reduce total firearm self-injuries (including suicides) among young people Child-access prevention laws reduce firearm homicides or firearm assault injuries among young people Child-access prevention laws reduce unintentional firearm injuries and deaths among children Stand Your Ground laws *increase* total homicide rates, including firearm homicide rates Shall-issue concealed carry laws increase firearm homicides Dealer background checks and universal background checks reduce homicides Minimum age of purchase laws reduce firearm suicides Waiting periods reduce rates of firearm suicide and total homicide Gun possession prohibitions associated with domestic violence may reduce intimate partner homicides If you want to go micro, you might learn that rural countries have a 37% higher rate of firearm deaths than most urban counties. Edited May 13 by ChiGoose 1
Recommended Posts