What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[ArdmoreRyno]

11 hours ago, Andy1 said:

Here is something interesting I recently came across re gun violence:
 

  I have been reading and writing about gun violence for more than ten years. I have yet to see how one of the most significant factors that we need to understand about this peculiarly American form of behavior not only remains unstudied by all the public health mavens (read: experts) but isn’t even mentioned by this so-called scholarly community as an issue of concern.

              What I am referring to is the extraordinary differential between whites and blacks when we look at the numbers for homicides versus suicides committed with a gun. The difference is startling. For whites, the gun-homicide rate in 2021 was 3.05, for blacks it was 28.03. This puts the white gun-homicide in the United States right around Sri Lanka and Turkey, and considering that white Americans own ten times more guns that the residents of either those other countries, the rate of gun homicides suffered by American whites isn’t so bad.

              On the other hand, the rate of gun homicides experienced by American blacks is up there around countries like Sudan, Guinea, and the Dominican Republic. In 2021, the U.S. gun-homicide rate for blacks between ages 14 and 34 was – ready? – 64.05. The only country which matches that number in the entire world is El Salvador. No other country is even close.

              Looking at gun suicides, however, gives us a much different view of things.  In 2020, the rate of white gun suicides was 7.84, the black gun suicide rate was 3.95. When it comes to how guns are used in this country for ending a human life, as opposed to using a gun for hunting or sport, whites use guns to shoot themselves, blacks use guns to shoot someone else. In that respect, I’m still waiting for the first researcher to attempt an analysis of the differential between gun homicide and gun suicide using race as the fundamental variable in both types of events.  
 

https://mikethegunguy.social/2023/05/18/does-public-health-understand-gun-violence/

 

 

Thus... it's a societal issue.

[Orlando Buffalo]

11 hours ago, Andy1 said:

Here is something interesting I recently came across re gun violence:
 

  I have been reading and writing about gun violence for more than ten years. I have yet to see how one of the most significant factors that we need to understand about this peculiarly American form of behavior not only remains unstudied by all the public health mavens (read: experts) but isn’t even mentioned by this so-called scholarly community as an issue of concern.

              What I am referring to is the extraordinary differential between whites and blacks when we look at the numbers for homicides versus suicides committed with a gun. The difference is startling. For whites, the gun-homicide rate in 2021 was 3.05, for blacks it was 28.03. This puts the white gun-homicide in the United States right around Sri Lanka and Turkey, and considering that white Americans own ten times more guns that the residents of either those other countries, the rate of gun homicides suffered by American whites isn’t so bad.

              On the other hand, the rate of gun homicides experienced by American blacks is up there around countries like Sudan, Guinea, and the Dominican Republic. In 2021, the U.S. gun-homicide rate for blacks between ages 14 and 34 was – ready? – 64.05. The only country which matches that number in the entire world is El Salvador. No other country is even close.

              Looking at gun suicides, however, gives us a much different view of things.  In 2020, the rate of white gun suicides was 7.84, the black gun suicide rate was 3.95. When it comes to how guns are used in this country for ending a human life, as opposed to using a gun for hunting or sport, whites use guns to shoot themselves, blacks use guns to shoot someone else. In that respect, I’m still waiting for the first researcher to attempt an analysis of the differential between gun homicide and gun suicide using race as the fundamental variable in both types of events.  
 

https://mikethegunguy.social/2023/05/18/does-public-health-understand-gun-violence/

 

I give you credit for looking at the numbers as they are, and I will give my take. Many more blacks live in communities where life is not considered valuable, they celebrate abortions, praise drill rappers, and don't respect education at all. Those numbers will be even more stark if we break down by communities. 

[GreggTX]

Statistics show a high positive correlation between gun ownership and gun deaths. In other words, more guns means more gun deaths.

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by GreggTX

[ArdmoreRyno]

30 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Statistics show a high positive correlation between gun ownership and gun deaths. In other words, more guns means more gun deaths.

 

 

So does ownership... in anything.

 

More cars you own, the more car deaths.  More people who own planes? You guessed it, more likely you'll die flying. 

[John from Riverside]

I don’t suppose it’s too much to ask. Just ask for responsible gun ownership?

 

X military and I have guns not as many as I used to have when I collected them but I have them but I like to think of myself as a responsible gun owner. They’re locked up ammunition is stored separately I mean more than anything I do this, so that I don’t have one of my grandkids, do something stupid that will haunt me for the rest of my life 

 

It’s way too easy to get guns and people don’t really need a military weapon to guard their house if you know how to use a weapon correctly, a shotgun and 9 mm will do

[Tommy Callahan]

16 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I don’t suppose it’s too much to ask. Just ask for responsible gun ownership?

 

X military and I have guns not as many as I used to have when I collected them but I have them but I like to think of myself as a responsible gun owner. They’re locked up ammunition is stored separately I mean more than anything I do this, so that I don’t have one of my grandkids, do something stupid that will haunt me for the rest of my life 

 

It’s way too easy to get guns and people don’t really need a military weapon to guard their house if you know how to use a weapon correctly, a shotgun and 9 mm will do

the stats show most legal gun owners like yourself, do similar.

 

How does one enforce that?  

 

and the ironic part is military officers get the handgun. No military gets an AR-15

 

And most gun crime is with that said handgun.

 

But agree, there is things we can do to slow the gun crime problem.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Chris farley

[Orlando Buffalo]

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

Statistics show a high positive correlation between gun ownership and gun deaths. In other words, more guns means more gun deaths.

 

Why are you only concerned about gun deaths? How about murder rate, which to me is much more worrisome. I will also point out that suicide vs homicide are very different solutions therefore muddling them is not a good decision. I believe we have the potential to limit both greatly but the solutions are almost unrelated 

[ArdmoreRyno]

26 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

Shotgun is the best home defense weapon. All you need to do is stop an intruder and shotguns have great stopping power

I can see the use case for a 9mm but yes like you say those AR 15s are not needed or practical 

 

 

 

But again, you don't get to tell anyone what they need to use for home defense. "Grand Thumb" did a dry wall experiment recently and the 77 grain 5.56 was the one round that didn't penetrate several walls.... unlike the shotgun, or 9mm. 

 

If someone is trying to break into my house and harm me or my family? I want as many rounds as possible and not limited to 5-6 shotgun shells. 

 

But you do you my man. I'm grabbing my suppressed 300 blackout or my Stribog. 30 round or 25 round magazines. 

2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I don’t suppose it’s too much to ask. Just ask for responsible gun ownership?

 

X military and I have guns not as many as I used to have when I collected them but I have them but I like to think of myself as a responsible gun owner. They’re locked up ammunition is stored separately I mean more than anything I do this, so that I don’t have one of my grandkids, do something stupid that will haunt me for the rest of my life 

 

It’s way too easy to get guns and people don’t really need a military weapon to guard their house if you know how to use a weapon correctly, a shotgun and 9 mm will do

 

The thing is, most gun owners are responsible. You'll have the outliers who leave their firearm in their car or laying around their homes... but most of us lock them up unless we are right there. I know that's what I do. 

 

I don't have the time or money to get an actual "military weapon". Unless you can find me a deal on a transferable M16/M4 lower or M249. 

[ArdmoreRyno]

6 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

well you will need something bigger than that tiny handgun with the suppressor so that's good

 

Chances are no one is ever going to break into your house but if you can't stop the guy with 5 shotgun blasts then you suck at shooting

 

My wife to my girls: 

 

"I'm sorry Rylie and Lauren... I know your dad loved you both so much. He told me months ago, some guy from New York said he only needed 5 shotgun shells to defend the house, so he kept his Mossberg 500 unlocked instead of his other guns. Might have been enough firepower, but the 3 men who broke in with 3 pistols with 17 round magazines managed to overwhelm him." 

 

Yea, I think I'll use as much firepower as I can get my hands on to stop any and all threats... thank ya.

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

8 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

3 men are going to break into your trailer? Yah, I doubt that scarface

 

I actually do have a trailer out on the property. With two adult kids and family, it's nice to have extra rooms for summers and holidays... but yea, I'd rather not take that chance. It HAS happened in Oklahoma before (several armed men breaking into a home). 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

1 minute ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

I. don't . care. 

 

Don't lie. LOL

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

5 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

the thing is, if you wanted to say you want an AR-15 cause they are cool and its a right given to you by law then I would respect that.

 

But this BS about needing one in case you are invaded by the mafia is just pathetic.

 

and no one gives a shite about your house or your life. literally no one

 

 

 

 

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

Dude, I've said those things OVER AND OVER again on this thread the past 2 years. 

 

I have several AR platforms for several reasons. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

32 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

the thing is, if you wanted to say you want an AR-15 cause they are cool and its a right given to you by law then I would respect that.

 

But this BS about needing one in case you are invaded by the mafia is just pathetic.

 

and no one gives a shite about your house or your life. literally no one

 

 

 

I appreciate your belief that no one cares about his life but I live about three miles from this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versailles_(house)

 

Seeing as they have a few dollars and have many things people want, what gun do you think should be allowed for them? Clearly 5 shotgun blasts doesn't cut it against 6 people. 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

7 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

cool then that's all you need to say. You dont need to say you need one for a dreamed up massive invasion of your trailer 

 

 

 

I've said (again) over-and-over why I own firearms and what I use those for. You've just missed those posts. And if what I live in is a trailer from your part of the woods, then wow. You must live in Buckingham Palace! Congrats! 

 

(you're the one that keeps brining up home types) 

 

Several people breaking into a home... it never happens! (and gun crime is non-existent in Australia!) 

 

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/crime/elderly-couple-76-and-81-attacked-by-three-armed-intruders-during-home-invasion-in-carlton-with-several-items-stolen/news-story/02be64802dc3388427dc625f410727c0

 

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/grandmother-and-grandchildren-pistol-whipped-during-home-invasion-in-irving/3238587/

 

https://abc7.com/el-monte-home-invasion-assault-police/12500289/

 

 

[Orlando Buffalo]

40 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

cool then that's all you need to say. You dont need to say you need one for a dreamed up massive invasion of your trailer 

 

 

You do realize that my neighborhood has had zero invasions in 20 years partially due to the fact that it is assumed everyone in my neighborhood has guns to protect themselves? Criminals don't go after people who will fight back and kill them, therefore no one comes near my house. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

2 hours ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

Most neighborhoods have had zero invasions in 20 years. Mine as well. 

Why do you think some neighborhoods have constant crime and some have basically zero for decades at a time?

[LeviF]

2 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

Why do you think some neighborhoods have constant crime and some have basically zero for decades at a time?

 

On 5/3/2023 at 1:47 PM, LeviF said:

 

 

 

[Orlando Buffalo]

49 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

If I knew that answer I would be a very rich man. I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that drugs and poverty play a role

That is not true, drugs are a definite problem in the suburbs also. Poverty plays a role but the overlap of poverty and crime is certainly not the highest R factor for causation. What is the biggest overlap?

[Orlando Buffalo]

40 minutes ago, SUNY_amherst said:

 

Why ask a question when you think have an answer. This isn't a game. At least the (likely) racist guy above you provided his theory without a passive aggressive question

Dummy, the biggest overlap is missing father figures not race, but seriously you must be a racist to jump there. 

[LeviF]

14 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said:

Dummy, the biggest overlap is missing father figures not race, but seriously you must be a racist to jump there. 

But statistics are racist, silly.