What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[B-Man]

 

 

The MSU mass shooter yesterday who killed three people and injured five others before killing himself is identified as 43-year-old convicted felon Anthony McRae. He committed the shootings, not with a rifle, but a pistol he was illegally possessing. This will disappear fast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tommy Callahan]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

 

Children have fallen way behind in learning, while experiencing unprecedented levels of anxiety, depression and suicide.  

 

We have fallout from what happened that will last for decades.

 

People have vax injuries that will be with them for the rest of their lives.. for something that was unnecessarily forced on them.  

 

Media and Tech were weaponized to propagandize the people, while medical institutions and agencies like the CDC will deal with the erosion of trust for years. 

 

What we saw was the true nature of subservient people... weak people create hard times, and it will happen again, and people like myself won't forget that there are people like you out there.  Which is why this issue is the defining political issue of my lifetime and I will never support anyone who had anything to do with using a pandemic to enhance their grip of power over the people.. and will always remember half this country was willing to let that happen.

 

 

They dont care. it was never about kids or health. about control. everything reverts back to control with the mob.

 

Then they reply back with some insult thinking that regains any of that said integrity.

 

The CDC, FDA, WHO and their Mob of authoritarians have no integrity left.

 

 

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

7 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

The MSU mass shooter yesterday who killed three people and injured five others before killing himself is identified as 43-year-old convicted felon Anthony McRae. He committed the shootings, not with a rifle, but a pistol he was illegally possessing. This will disappear fast.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh................ We don't talk about how most "mass shootings" are carried out by POC and illegal handguns are used. 

 

It's time to ban all AR-15/AK style firearms and label the white man the biggest threat to America after what happened last night!

[BillStime]

Yes - we should have to live like this because we have so many insecure freaks in this country.

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

15 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Yes - we should have to live like this because we have so many insecure freaks in this country.

 

 

 

Michigan State is the largest school in Michigan with almost 50,000 students. 

 

It's not far fetched to think a kid who attended Sandy Hook, Parkland, Uvalde, etc. might end up at a school where this happens. 

 

BTW: College shootings are extremely rare. 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Michigan State is the largest school in Michigan with almost 50,000 students. 

 

It's not far fetched to think a kid who attended Sandy Hook, Parkland, Uvalde, etc. might end up at a school where this happens. 

 

BTW: College shootings are extremely rare. 

 

Great - but why do we have to live like this?

[B-Man]

 

 

Reminder from above:

 

He was a convicted felon. He was already completely prohibited from possessing a firearm.

 

What would you do  to have stopped this from happening ?

 

 

 

 

The Left's response:  we should disarm the law abiding citizen and make it even harder for people to defend themselves.

 

.

[Tommy Callahan]

I wish I could share this without just a link. its telling. its a list of every mass shooting with links to local reporting. The huge majority never make the national news.

 

Feel free to follow the links and see the quinky dinks. 

 

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

 

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

Just now, BillStime said:

 

Great - but why do we have to live like this?

 

Because there are evil people out there that DO exist among us? This guy, a convicted felon who's not allowed to own a firearm, manages to get one illegally and used it to carry out his hate/evil. 

 

Nice, France = truck = evil = 87 dead/484 injured 

Sagamihara, Japan = knife = evil = 19 dead/26 injured

 

You can move into a homestead in Alaska and get away from the chance of evil people people close to you? 

[Tommy Callahan]

25 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Yes - we should have to live like this because we have so many insecure freaks in this country.

 

 

Crazy. For many living in the inner cities these mass shootings are way more frequent. but no one on the national level cares.

 

They have an agenda. and I doubt will ever involve aggressively disarming the gangs that commit the majority of gun crime and mass shootings.

 

 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

Crazy. For many living in the inner cities these mass shootings are way more frequent. but no one on the national level cares.

 

They have an agenda. and I doubt will ever involve aggressively disarming the gangs that commit the majority of gun crime and mass shootings.

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Because there are evil people out there that DO exist among us? This guy, a convicted felon who's not allowed to own a firearm, manages to get one illegally and used it to carry out his hate/evil. 

 

Nice, France = truck = evil = 87 dead/484 injured 

Sagamihara, Japan = knife = evil = 19 dead/26 injured

 

You can move into a homestead in Alaska and get away from the chance of evil people people close to you? 

 

How many kids died before we outlawed yard darts?

 

[ArdmoreRyno]

22 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

 

How many kids died before we outlawed yard darts?

 

 

Let me know where which part of the Bill or Rights cover lawn darts. 

 

How many people die until we outlaw hammers? Cars? Tobacco? Fast food? 

[ChiGoose]

33 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Reminder from above:

 

He was a convicted felon. He was already completely prohibited from possessing a firearm.

 

What would you do  to have stopped this from happening ?

 

 

 

 

The Left's response:  we should disarm the law abiding citizen and make it even harder for people to defend themselves.

 

.

The Right’s response: let’s  do absolutely nothing because who cares about dead kids when there is money to be made?

[Tommy Callahan]

44 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

The Right’s response: let’s  do absolutely nothing because who cares about dead kids when there is money to be made?

The rights response. Aggressively use the laws on the books and at the actual group/individual committing the  gun crime.

 

Including Gun Possession charges.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Chris farley

[ArdmoreRyno]

47 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

The Right’s response: let’s  do absolutely nothing because who cares about dead kids when there is money to be made?

 

What would you like to see done that would have prevented last night? 

 

We (pro-2A people) keep asking these questions but the left's only replies? 
 

1. Universal backgrounds (which is impossible and moronic)

2. Ban semi-automatic rifles (which are only used in a FRACTION of shootings)

[LeviF]

37 minutes ago, Chris farley said:

The rights response. Aggressively use the laws on the books and at the actual group/individual committing the  gun crime.

 

Including Gun Possession charges.

 

 

 

"We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas!"

[aristocrat]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

The Right’s response: let’s  do absolutely nothing because who cares about dead kids when there is money to be made?

One thing we need more of…it’s laws. 

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

What would you like to see done that would have prevented last night? 

 

We (pro-2A people) keep asking these questions but the left's only replies? 
 

1. Universal backgrounds (which is impossible and moronic)

2. Ban semi-automatic rifles (which are only used in a FRACTION of shootings)

 

Then you're not exactly looking very hard. People from all across the political spectrum, including the left, have proposed a myriad of ways to reduce gun deaths beyond the two you cited.

 

But if you're only looking at gun control through the lens of a mass shooting, then you're falling into the same trap that many liberals do. Mass shootings are a small fraction of the overall number of gun deaths in this country. If we're only tailoring our laws to prevent them, then we're stopping ourselves from preventing hundreds or even thousands of deaths each year.

 

A good starting point is this article, which lays out why we should look at firearm laws in a similar manner to automobile laws (not banning them but regulating them to make them safer and limit access to them).

 

Here are some of the specific policies that would reduce the number of gun deaths per year without preventing law abiding citizens from owning guns:

• Background checks: 22% of guns are obtained without one
• Protection orders & red flag laws: prevent people who are subject to domestic violence protection orders from having guns and improve red flag laws
• Ban under-21s: Prevent kids from buying guns
• Safe storage: trigger locks, storing ammo separately from guns, etc.
• Straw Purchases: Improved enforcement on straw purchases and limits to how many guns an individual can purchase in a month
• Ammunition Checks: Require background checks for people buying ammo
• End Immunity: End the immunity the firearms industry that subsidizes it and dis-incentivizes safer gun research
• Research Smart Guns: There are different technologies that could prevent a gun from being used by people other than the owner. Those should be invested in and explored
• Empower research on guns and gun violence
• Improved firearms training: audits of firearm trainings show that trainers are spending more time on encouraging gun ownership than actual gun safety (which is quite different from the firearms training I took only 20 years ago)

Most gun deaths are suicides*, followed by homicides. Only about 1% of gun deaths are mass shootings (and fewer than 2% are self-defense, despite what the "good guy with a gun" crowd believes). Focusing on one specific type of gun death risks missing the bigger picture. What we should be working towards is an environment where good people can still buy guns but it's much harder for bad actors to get them and more difficult for children or those in an acute mental crises to get their hands on a gun.

 

In exchange for mildly inconveniencing gun owners, policies like these have the potential to save thousands of lives every year. Or we could just tell ourselves that these changes won't prevent 100% of deaths, so why do anything at all? Let the kids die.

 

*By the way, people who survive suicide attempts rarely end up dying of suicide. It's an acute moment of danger in which most methods (cutting, drugs, etc) are far more like to fail than succeed with one exception: firearms. If someone going through that crises does not have access to a firearm, they will likely survive the attempt and not end up dying of suicide later.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by ChiGoose

[ArdmoreRyno]

24 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

Then you're not exactly looking very hard. People from all across the political spectrum, including the left, have proposed a myriad of ways to reduce gun deaths beyond the two you cited.

 

But if you're only looking at gun control through the lens of a mass shooting, then you're falling into the same trap that many liberals do. Mass shootings are a small fraction of the overall number of gun deaths in this country. If we're only tailoring our laws to prevent them, then we're stopping ourselves from preventing hundreds or even thousands of deaths each year.

 

A good starting point is this article, which lays out why we should look at firearm laws in a similar manner to automobile laws (not banning them but regulating them to make them safer and limit access to them).

 

Here are some of the specific policies that would reduce the number of gun deaths per year without preventing law abiding citizens from owning guns:

• Background checks: 22% of guns are obtained without one
• Protection orders & red flag laws: prevent people who are subject to domestic violence protection orders from having guns and improve red flag laws
• Ban under-21s: Prevent kids from buying guns
• Safe storage: trigger locks, storing ammo separately from guns, etc.
• Straw Purchases: Improved enforcement on straw purchases and limits to how many guns an individual can purchase in a month
• Ammunition Checks: Require background checks for people buying ammo
• End Immunity: End the immunity the firearms industry that subsidizes it and dis-incentivizes safer gun research
• Research Smart Guns: There are different technologies that could prevent a gun from being used by people other than the owner. Those should be invested in and explored
• Empower research on guns and gun violence
• Improved firearms training: audits of firearm trainings show that trainers are spending more time on encouraging gun ownership than actual gun safety (which is quite different from the firearms training I took only 20 years ago)

Most gun deaths are suicides*, followed by homicides. Only about 1% of gun deaths are mass shootings (and fewer than 2% are self-defense, despite what the "good guy with a gun" crowd believes). Focusing on one specific type of gun death risks missing the bigger picture. What we should be working towards is an environment where good people can still buy guns but it's much harder for bad actors to get them and more difficult for children or those in an acute mental crises to get their hands on a gun.

 

In exchange for mildly inconveniencing gun owners, policies like these have the potential to save thousands of lives every year. Or we could just tell ourselves that these changes won't prevent 100% of deaths, so why do anything at all? Let the kids die.

 

*By the way, people who survive suicide attempts rarely end up dying of suicide. It's an acute moment of danger in which most methods (cutting, drugs, etc) are far more like to fail than succeed with one exception: firearms. If someone going through that crises does not have access to a firearm, they will likely survive the attempt and not end up dying of suicide later.

 

 

 

Background checks: 22% of guns are obtained without one 

 

So...with the 22%, how many were stolen or passed around in gang/drug communities? How exactly do you stop that from happening? You can't. Criminals aren't going to do a background check. There is a "myth" about gun-shows, very few "private sells" take place at shows. It's so overblown by the left and the media. You go to a gun show, 99% chance you're filling out a 4473 to buy a firearms. 

 

Protection orders & red flag laws: 

 

Already against federal and all state law to buy a firearm if you have a proactive order. Red flag laws are awful ideas. You're wrecking someone's constitutional rights (3-4 rights are being trashed right off the bat) and it's already been ruled as such... unconstitutional. 

 

Ban under-21s: Prevent kids from buying guns

 

I'm not a fan of this due to SEVERAL reasons. It's already illegal for someone under 21 to buy a handgun (which is the most used firearm in shootings). You can go to war at 20, but can't buy a 1911? When do people no longer become kids? They are voting by 18. Again, a constitutional right was set in stone. My youngest daughter is a sophomore at Ole Miss (20 years old). An apartment right next to hers was broken into. She freaks out due to what happened in Idaho... and she can't go buy a firearm to protect herself? A 20-year old mom being threatened by an ex, can't buy a firearm? 

 

I have no issue opening up juvenile records for buying firearms. Do more extensive backgrounds. But BANNING pre-21 year olds? No. 

 

Safe storage: trigger locks, storing ammo separately from guns, etc.

 

No reason to have ammo and a firearm stored separately. Makes no sense if it's all in a safe. That said, I have no issue making sure firearms are locked up when you're not present. It should be a law you MUST report any stolen firearm, why it's not is weird to me. I was basically single (lived alone) from like 2012-2021. Should I have to lock up my firearms when I'm sleeping alone in my house? 

 

Straw Purchases: Improved enforcement on straw purchases and limits to how many guns an individual can purchase in a month

 

Straw purchases is already illegal and zero reason to stop someone from buying whatever they like. LEO showing up at someone's house to "take a look" at their guns is unconstitutional. 

 

Ammunition Checks: Require background checks for people buying ammo

 

Pardon me for saying this, but GTFO. Not going to do anything but become a huge pain in the ass for all of us legal gun owners (which is most of America). Besides, I can roll my own ammo (which I do). How you going to prevent that? Background check every time I press a 300 Blackout round?

 

End Immunity: End the immunity the firearms industry that subsidizes it and dis-incentivizes safer gun research

 

You can sue gun manufactures. It's already happened (see Sandy Hook)

 

Research Smart Guns

 

It has been and it's flawed

 

Empower research on guns and gun violence

 

Zero issue doing research. 

 

Improved firearms training

 

I don't have an issue with this, but what does that even mean? I train all the time. I train others (my girls, my fiancé, my dad). Are you going to demand or require a gun owner to do a training class? Again, your 2A rights come into play here. 

 

 

Ultimately the issue is with gang/drug violence in intercity. This is where most of the gun violence takes place. This is where most illegal gun use takes place. Until city LEO/mayors/governors take a strong stance on crime (hello? Chicago?) things will never change. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by ArdmoreRyno

[BillStime]

2 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Let me know where which part of the Bill or Rights cover lawn darts. 

 

How many people die until we outlaw hammers? Cars? Tobacco? Fast food? 

 

 

Fourteenth Amendment

 

.... No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws ....