What is better, no guns, or more guns?

[Deranged Rhino]

"Terrorism" is a nebulous word in law enforcement vernacular -- intentionally so. Elevating a crime to "terrorism" can be a useful band aid to work around certain constitutional protections. Those trying to push this as "terrorism" for the purposes of empowering the government to take action should rightfully be viewed with suspicion. That's not a right wing view -- in fact, it's quite the opposite. Or used to be, until about 2.5 years ago. 

 

Wonder what changed? 

 

And of course it begs the question... if Trump truly is enabling domestic terrorists intentionally or otherwise, and he heads the federal government, why on Earth would you ever want to give that same government more power to ignore citizens' basic constitutional protections? 

 

It's a nonsense argument made by people who are too emotionally compromised, or too addled with TDS, to think rationally. 

 

What happened were heinous shootings. Crimes. Multiple crimes, each enforceable by LEO's and our judicial system. Pushing for even more isn't solving the problem, it's making things exponentially worse on a civil liberties front.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Deranged Rhino

[Buffalo_Gal]

 

What makes these tragic shootings worse than a weekend in Chicago or Baltimore?

[ALF]

2 hours ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

He was a registered Democrat. 

 

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/08/leftists-change-shooter-patrick-crusiuss-mylife-page-after-saturday-shooting-from-democrat-to-republican/

 

Some Democrats and Independents voted for Trump and Reagan , that's how they won.

Edited August 4, 2019 by ALF

[Westside]

15 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

Some Democrats voted for Trump and Reagan , that's how they won.

Spin spin spin.....lol

[transplantbillsfan]

9 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

Its frustrating that YOU bring race into this when not a God@mn thing I said mentioned race whatever.

 

No, you didn't directly mention race. You just jumped to the conclusion that he was mentally ill, which would be fine if you defined ANY mass attack motivated by hatred of a particular race, religion, country, belief system, etc. primarily as the act of a "mentally ill" person. But I suspect you don't do that.

 

If I am wrong, I apologize.

 

9 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

Mental illness doesn’t care about race, even if you do.

 

No. It doesn't. I completely agree.

 

But the fact that there have been peer reviewed studies examining just white vs black mass shootings that establish that the probability of the media narrative framing the white shooter as "mentally ill" is about 19 times higher than if it were a black shooter is problematic.

 

9 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

So, like I say to anyone who wants to play the USELESS race card ................

 

You can shove your racism straight up your candy azz. Sideways 

 

And again, if as I said above you naturally identify any of these mass killings targeting a specific group carried out by ANY race as that of a mentally ill person, I apologize. 

 

9 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

PS............

 

Look at the FBI’s database about who commits the most violent crimes in this country and then get back to me about how “because it’s ONLY a white guy” when someone mentions it’s mental health. Stats don’t lie.

 

What is your central argument on this?

 

No, white people do not commit the most violent crimes in our country. They commit the most hate crimes, just not overall violent crimes.

 

Still not seeing your point.

 

9 hours ago, njbuff said:

 

I call you out on your total bullshyt, Mack.

 

This nutjob shooter IS the one at fault. Nothing or no one else is. And obviously this crazy person has MENTAL ISSUES. Case closed.

 

Again, if you say this response is ubiquitous in all shootings, I apologize.

 

It's been just hours since the shootings, though. Cases far from closed.

[BringBackOrton]

4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

No, you didn't directly mention race. You just jumped to the conclusion that he was mentally ill, which would be fine if you defined ANY mass attack motivated by hatred of a particular race, religion, country, belief system, etc. primarily as the act of a "mentally ill" person. But I suspect you don't do that.

 

If I am wrong, I apologize.

 

 

No. It doesn't. I completely agree.

 

But the fact that there have been peer reviewed studies examining just white vs black mass shootings that establish that the probability of the media narrative framing the white shooter as "mentally ill" is about 19 times higher than if it were a black shooter is problematic.

 

 

And again, if as I said above you naturally identify any of these mass killings targeting a specific group carried out by ANY race as that of a mentally ill person, I apologize. 

 

 

What is your central argument on this?

 

No, white people do not commit the most violent crimes in our country. They commit the most hate crimes, just not overall violent crimes.

 

Still not seeing your point.

 

 

Again, if you say this response is ubiquitous in all shootings, I apologize.

 

It's been just hours since the shootings, though. Cases far from closed.

If you’re going to apologize 17 times in advance for jumping to conclusions, why would you jump to any conclusions at all?

[B-Man]

MEDIA AND POLITICIANS DON’T GET IT:’

 

 Brian Cates’ thread on the gunman’s alleged ‘manifesto’ is a must read.

 

 

 

 

Exit quote: “Mass shootings done for **fun** as the ultimate troll where these shitposters write confusing manifestos and then sit back & watch the fun as both sides claim he belongs to the other.”

 

 

Read the whole thing.

 

 

 

Related: Social media as a virius of the mind.

 

 

.

 

[DC Tom]

16 hours ago, Sig1Hunter said:

I’m white, and I love my nation. Does that make me one?

 

I'm white, and I work in immigration.  I'm a genuine Nazi.  

13 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

If you’re going to apologize 17 times in advance for jumping to conclusions, why would you jump to any conclusions at all?

 

He's got nothing else.  

[Boatdrinks]

2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...normal Chicago day...skee ball and target practice...........

At least 7 people shot in Chicago park; 1 killed, 3 others wounded in separate shooting

 

By Nicole Darrah | Fox News 

Published 1 hour ago

At least seven people were wounded by gunfire early Sunday in Chicago after someone opened fire near a playground on the city's west side.

 

The shooting happened around 1:20 a.m. in Douglas Park, according to the Chicago Sun-Times. Authorities said someone shot their weapon from inside a black Chevrolet Camaro on the street.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/7-people-shot-chicago-park-1-killed-3-wounded

 

 

Yep, just another day... but the media will focus on the few crazy nutjobs that go off the deep end with political rhetoric ( clearly not the normal white male ) instead of those whose “ culture” teaches them that Glocking your enemies is just “ how you do”, so they do it every hour of every day at a rate far out of whack with their percentage of the population. Death goes on ....

[Big Gun]

I've seen this before and thought this might be a good place to share since the weekend events.

 

 

There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.00925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death: • 65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws. • 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified. • 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – better known as gun violence. • 3% are accidental discharge deaths. So technically, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation. • 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago • 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore • 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit • 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years) So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause. This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1. Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths. Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault are all done by criminals. It is ludicrous to think that criminals will obey laws. That is why they are called criminals. But what about other deaths each year? • 40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT! • 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths. • 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide). Now it gets good: • 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer walking in the worst areas of Chicago than you are when you are in a hospital! • 710,000 people die per year from heart disease. It’s time to stop the double cheeseburgers! So what is the point? If the liberals and the anti-gun movement focused their attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total number of gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides ................ Simple, easily preventable 10% reductions! So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple: Taking away guns gives control to governments. The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power may become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace. Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It must be preserved at all costs. So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed." It’s not the lack of laws, it’s lack of Morality."

 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

21 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

No, you didn't directly mention race. You just jumped to the conclusion that he was mentally ill, which would be fine if you defined ANY mass attack motivated by hatred of a particular race, religion, country, belief system, etc. primarily as the act of a "mentally ill" person. But I suspect you don't do that.

 

If I am wrong, I apologize.

 

 

 

But the fact that there have been peer reviewed studies examining just white vs black mass shootings that establish that the probability of the media narrative framing the white shooter as "mentally ill" is about 19 times higher than if it were a black shooter is problematic.

 

No, white people do not commit the most violent crimes in our country. They commit the most hate crimes, just not overall violent crimes.

 

 

It's been just hours since the shootings, though. Cases far from closed.

You are wrong. “ hate crime “ is an invented category , defined as what a liberal calls a crime committed by a white person against a person of any other racial or ethnic background. 

   The reason one doesn’t always assume “ mentally ill” is because some cultures and religions teach that it is OK and even highly regarded to kill others unlike them , or even just their enemies. This philosophy is not common in Caucasian or Christian cultures. So when the oddball nutjob decides to go on a killing spree it seems that mental illness could have a played a role. Maybe the individual was brought up to think that gunning folks down is just another day at the factory, but that would be highly unusual. This is far different than say a Muslim carrying out his Jihad or a member of a non Caucasian race that happens to commit the vast majority of murders day in and day out in America. I’d guess this occurrence is not a big deal to you because , well , America racist and Trump bad. 

[B-Man]

1 minute ago, pop gun said:

I've seen this before and thought this might be a good place to share since the weekend events.

 

 

There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed.

 

It’s not the lack of laws, it’s lack of Morality."

 

 

 

 

 

Hard to read in that form sir, but definitely worth it..................thanks 

 

 

 

Reminder, I posted last week............................still fits unfortunately.

 

 

On 7/30/2019 at 11:02 AM, B-Man said:

 

 

Weird:   ..................     "all called the Brownsville event a mass shooting.

 

Mayor Bill de Blasio declined to do so when asked by the Brooklyn Eagle Sunday at a press conference at the scene, saying

“that phrase is usually reserved for a different type of situation.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

9 minutes ago, pop gun said:

I've seen this before and thought this might be a good place to share since the weekend events.

 

 

There are 30,000 gun related deaths per year by firearms, and this number is not disputed. The U.S. population is 324,059,091 as of June 22, 2016. Do the math: 0.00925% of the population dies from gun related actions each year. Statistically speaking, this is insignificant! What is never told, however, is a breakdown of those 30,000 deaths, to put them in perspective as compared to other causes of death: • 65% of those deaths are by suicide, which would never be prevented by gun laws. • 15% are by law enforcement in the line of duty and justified. • 17% are through criminal activity, gang and drug related or mentally ill persons – better known as gun violence. • 3% are accidental discharge deaths. So technically, "gun violence" is not 30,000 annually, but drops to 5,100. Still too many? Now lets look at how those deaths spanned across the nation. • 480 homicides (9.4%) were in Chicago • 344 homicides (6.7%) were in Baltimore • 333 homicides (6.5%) were in Detroit • 119 homicides (2.3%) were in Washington D.C. (a 54% increase over prior years) So basically, 25% of all gun crime happens in just 4 cities. All 4 of those cities have strict gun laws, so it is not the lack of law that is the root cause. This basically leaves 3,825 for the entire rest of the nation, or about 75 deaths per state. That is an average because some States have much higher rates than others. For example, California had 1,169 and Alabama had 1. Now, who has the strictest gun laws by far? California, of course, but understand, it is not guns causing this. It is a crime rate spawned by the number of criminal persons residing in those cities and states. So if all cities and states are not created equal, then there must be something other than the tool causing the gun deaths. Are 5,100 deaths per year horrific? How about in comparison to other deaths? All death is sad and especially so when it is in the commission of a crime but that is the nature of crime. Robbery, death, rape, assault are all done by criminals. It is ludicrous to think that criminals will obey laws. That is why they are called criminals. But what about other deaths each year? • 40,000+ die from a drug overdose–THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR THAT! • 36,000 people die per year from the flu, far exceeding the criminal gun deaths. • 34,000 people die per year in traffic fatalities(exceeding gun deaths even if you include suicide). Now it gets good: • 200,000+ people die each year (and growing) from preventable medical errors. You are safer walking in the worst areas of Chicago than you are when you are in a hospital! • 710,000 people die per year from heart disease. It’s time to stop the double cheeseburgers! So what is the point? If the liberals and the anti-gun movement focused their attention on heart disease, even a 10% decrease in cardiac deaths would save twice the number of lives annually of all gun-related deaths (including suicide, law enforcement, etc.). A 10% reduction in medical errors would be 66% of the total number of gun deaths or 4 times the number of criminal homicides ................ Simple, easily preventable 10% reductions! So you have to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, why the focus on guns? It's pretty simple: Taking away guns gives control to governments. The founders of this nation knew that regardless of the form of government, those in power may become corrupt and seek to rule as the British did by trying to disarm the populace of the colonies. It is not difficult to understand that a disarmed populace is a controlled populace. Thus, the second amendment was proudly and boldly included in the U.S. Constitution. It must be preserved at all costs. So the next time someone tries to tell you that gun control is about saving lives, look at these facts and remember these words from Noah Webster: "Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed." It’s not the lack of laws, it’s lack of Morality."

 

 

 

Well stated, and yet another example of Libs and the media’s selective outrage. 

[BringBackOrton]

29 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

I'm white, and I work in immigration.  I'm a genuine Nazi.  

 

He's got nothing else.  

I may have to try it out.

 

”You are a ***** idiot. Sorry in advance if I’m incorrect.”

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

So was Tim McVeigh! This guy was inspired just like the Pittsburgh synagogue terrorist was. 

 

So so you don't see this as terrorism? Why is that? 

Was he a Hillary supporter? 

You don't think these were terrorist incidents? Silence speaks volumes! 

 

 

K.  Call it terrorism.  Idc.  And?  Now what?  

[Boatdrinks]

2 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

K.  Call it terrorism.  Idc.  And?  Now what?  

Plus, McVeigh was angry at the American Government ,  so should be all good with Tibs. Yes it’s terrorism, what’s the point ? 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, BringBackOrton said:

If you’re going to apologize 17 times in advance for jumping to conclusions, why would you jump to any conclusions at all?

 

Because I don't think I'm wrong.

[BringBackOrton]

10 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Because I don't think I'm wrong.

Then why apologize at all? Own your opinions.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said:

You are wrong. “ hate crime “ is an invented category , defined as what a liberal calls a crime committed by a white person against a person of any other racial or ethnic background. 

   The reason one doesn’t always assume “ mentally ill” is because some cultures and religions teach that it is OK and even highly regarded to kill others unlike them , or even just their enemies. This philosophy is not common in Caucasian or Christian cultures. So when the oddball nutjob decides to go on a killing spree it seems that mental illness could have a played a role. Maybe the individual was brought up to think that gunning folks down is just another day at the factory, but that would be highly unusual. This is far different than say a Muslim carrying out his Jihad or a member of a non Caucasian race that happens to commit the vast majority of murders day in and day out in America. I’d guess this occurrence is not a big deal to you because , well , America racist and Trump bad. 

 

Wow.

 

I really am amazed how entrenched some of you are in this.

 

You say this violent philosophy is not common in Caucasian cultures.

 

What about the KKK? Or Nazi Germany?

 

Or are you only talking modern times and in America?

 

How many subcultures do you think might exist on the Internet? How many forums exist out there where people can bounce ideas--even violent ones--off of others.

 

I don't think it's a coincidence that these mass killings have coincided over the last few decades with the rise of the Internet and Social Media, which can itself be it's own culture.

 

This forum, for example, clearly has it's own culture. And notice that even this forum is largely a sounding board of generally like-minded individuals, politically speaking.

 

Sure, when you get a guy like The_Dude who takes things too far, he gets ousted. But there is something culturally even on this forum--angst, bitterness, derision--that made that poster (Who I've seen posting on regular Bills forums for YEARS and was never ever remotely close to that inflammatory) feel it was acceptable for him to say that. No individual on this forum is responsible for his words. But there's a culture here that rewards those characteristics I mentioned before. I come back because there are definitely those posters here like DerangedRhino, BuffaloGal and others who generally, if not completely avoid falling into that trap.

 

And no, I really don't give a crap if I get called names or get trolled on here. It's an Internet forum and I have a life.

 

However, there are those in our country who view social media and Internet forums as very very important aspects of their lives. And the reasons for that are not as simple as "they're mentally ill."

7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Then why apologize at all? Own your opinions.

 

I do.

 

I also acknowledge the small chance I could be wrong in terms of his intentions.

Edited August 4, 2019 by transplantbillsfan

[TakeYouToTasker]

Did I really just read someone making the case that white people are racially predisposed towards violent ideologies?

 

Please stop the Earth.  I want to get off.