Justice Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 I live in south Florida. The kids are staging a walkout in schools all across the region as we speak. I pray there’s no violence at any of those events. 5 minutes ago, row_33 said: i thought 60% are there awaiting trial and the vast majority of the rest have sentences less than a year to serve I don’t know anything about that
thebug Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, row_33 said: there's no way bug has read the Federalist Papers or other US founding documents but why would one bother when you can just type in what one feels and let her ride, even the news media does this wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee............... I’m guessing most Americans haven’t either.
Azalin Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: You believe it's fake news point out that the Bill of rights was the end result of centuries of liberal thought and enlightenment? I've had him on ignore for several days now, so I didn't even see that he had latched onto my previous post. He's just trolling, so no replies will be met with anything substantive. That said, why is it that whenever anyone tries to point out the reasoning behind the immutability of constitutional liberties, the conversation then turns to religion? I'm honestly surprised at the level of ignorance on the subject.
DC Tom Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Justice said: I live in south Florida. The kids are staging a walkout in schools all across the region as we speak. I pray there’s no violence at any of those events. I really respect the kids for taking responsibility for the issue rather than just being passive victims of it, even if I disagree with them. 1
row_33 Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, Azalin said: I've had him on ignore for several days now, so I didn't even see that he had latched onto my previous post. He's just trolling, so no replies will be met with anything substantive. That said, why is it that whenever anyone tries to point out the reasoning behind the immutability of constitutional liberties, the conversation then turns to religion? I'm honestly surprised at the level of ignorance on the subject. it's very hard in the year 2018 to see Azalin invoke Creator and God in an argument and not see it as pushing religion. I'm not sure what hamlet you live in, or commune, but it's 2018 and using the words Creator and God, even in the most weak sense, is religion-signalling that's all... 7 minutes ago, DC Tom said: I really respect the kids for taking responsibility for the issue rather than just being passive victims of it, even if I disagree with them. we went through this in the early 1970s with what seemed like daily bombings in University towns, this is nothing these days
Deranged Rhino Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Azalin said: I've had him on ignore for several days now, so I didn't even see that he had latched onto my previous post. He's just trolling, so no replies will be met with anything substantive. That said, why is it that whenever anyone tries to point out the reasoning behind the immutability of constitutional liberties, the conversation then turns to religion? I'm honestly surprised at the level of ignorance on the subject. IMO it's because liberals think a belief in a higher power (other than government) is silly. Thus, if they can frame someone's argument as "the constitution comes from God" they can dismiss it to themselves and their friends as silly.
oldmanfan Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, LeviF91 said: That's not the point. And this is what you gun-grabbers don't get. If I come and take some part of something that rightfully belongs to you, that's wrong. Even if I come for all of it, and you say no, then I say "let's compromise, I'll only take half" with the full force of the law behind me then it's still wrong. You're the person taking in the above illustration. You're in the wrong. You're the one calling something a compromise when only one party gets anything and then have the gall to call me "absurd." !@#$ right off. Let's have a reasonable conversation about this, because that is what is missing in this entire issue. I will state again: I believe in the Second Amendment and support the Haller decision by the Supreme Court. You have the right to bear arms, as we all do. But as Judge Scalia pointed out in his decision, that does not mean you have the right to bear any arm you want to bear. You cannot own a bazooka, correct? My math makes sense. If you have a weapon that can shoot ten times more ammunition than a weapon that does not, that weapon can do more damage. That really is just basic math. Is there not room for all to come to an agreement that, for example, the bump stocks used in Las Vegas should be eliminated? Or that magazines that carry more than a certain amount of bullets be regulated? I am all for other measures supported I suspect by you,, such as enhanced police at schools. But if we as a society are ever going to going events like we saw last week to a halt, everyone needs to come to a compromise somewhere in the middle. I am not a gun grabber. I don't own one myself, but support your right to own one. But explain to me how your life would be affected if there were restrictions placed of the type of guns used in the vast majority of the types of incidents we saw last week. 2
Azalin Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, row_33 said: it's very hard in the year 2018 to see Azalin invoke Creator and God in an argument and not see it as pushing religion. I'm not sure what hamlet you live in, or commune, but it's 2018 and using the words Creator and God, even in the most weak sense, is religion-signalling that's all... The only reason it's hard for you is because you are stubbornly refusing to accept the US Constitution for what it is. Ask yourself this: If constitutional liberty is not granted by the government, then what is it's source? 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: IMO it's because liberals think a belief in a higher power (other than government) is silly. Thus, if they can frame someone's argument as "the constitution comes from God" they can dismiss it to themselves and their friends as silly. That's as good an answer as I can come up with.
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, DC Tom said: I really respect the kids for taking responsibility for the issue rather than just being passive victims of it, even if I disagree with them. They aren't taking responsibility, they're taking a day out of school which is not hard to convince teenagers to do, and the impetus was probably some gun grabbing communist teacher encouraging it in order to use dead babies to build a soap box. 1
boyst Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 28 minutes ago, Justice said: Our prisons are littered with drug offenders more so than anything else. Repeated drug offenders, which are generally drug dealers. I love how this is often misreported.
Joe Miner Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Let's have a reasonable conversation about this, because that is what is missing in this entire issue. I will state again: I believe in the Second Amendment and support the Haller decision by the Supreme Court. You have the right to bear arms, as we all do. But as Judge Scalia pointed out in his decision, that does not mean you have the right to bear any arm you want to bear. You cannot own a bazooka, correct? My math makes sense. If you have a weapon that can shoot ten times more ammunition than a weapon that does not, that weapon can do more damage. That really is just basic math. Is there not room for all to come to an agreement that, for example, the bump stocks used in Las Vegas should be eliminated? Or that magazines that carry more than a certain amount of bullets be regulated? I am all for other measures supported I suspect by you,, such as enhanced police at schools. But if we as a society are ever going to going events like we saw last week to a halt, everyone needs to come to a compromise somewhere in the middle. I am not a gun grabber. I don't own one myself, but support your right to own one. But explain to me how your life would be affected if there were restrictions placed of the type of guns used in the vast majority of the types of incidents we saw last week. All of that and you never addressed the cause of the murders. I'm glad I own the good guns that don't go out and shoot people.
Justice Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: Repeated drug offenders, which are generally drug dealers. I love how this is often misreported. Misreported or not. 50% of the prisons are drug related. I never did hard drugs and I don’t know any dealers, but I can buy some within a hour. 4 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: They aren't taking responsibility, they're taking a day out of school which is not hard to convince teenagers to do, and the impetus was probably some gun grabbing communist teacher encouraging it in order to use dead babies to build a soap box. Oh yeah? Some of these kids are crying and they’re shouting protests at the top of their lungs. They all deserve an academy award. 1
Bob in Mich Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 48 minutes ago, Azalin said: ^%$# the public square. I'm talking about constitutional liberties. I don't care whether you or anyone else believes in God or not, and whether or not I do is irrelevant to the point. The American government does not grant us our liberty. They are bestowed upon us by the very fact that we exist. The constitution is a rein on the government's ability to infringe upon them. Would religious scholars, in your opinion, claim the US Constitution was written by men or God? Assuming you agree that men wrote it and men have changed it in the past, why in God's name is the document so sacred that to discuss changing it again is so unthinkable? I think changes to gun rules - not grabbing my guns or yours - could fit under the current 2nd Amendment language btw, but that is a second argument
boyst Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Justice said: Misreported or not. 50% of the prisons are drug related. I never did hard drugs and I don’t know any dealers, but I can buy some within a hour. Yes. And I am perfectly fine locking up drug dealers and drug users who habitually break the law. First time users and those caught seldom face time. I've never met someone who said they did substantiate time for a few joints.
Warren Zevon Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: They aren't taking responsibility, they're taking a day out of school which is not hard to convince teenagers to do, and the impetus was probably some gun grabbing communist teacher encouraging it in order to use dead babies to build a soap box. The impetus was 17 of their classmates and/or peers being gunned down. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Bob in Mich said: Would religious scholars, in your opinion, claim the US Constitution was written by men or God? Assuming you agree that men wrote it and men have changed it in the past, why in God's name is the document so sacred that to discuss changing it again is so unthinkable? I think changes to gun rules - not grabbing my guns or yours - could fit under the current 2nd Amendment language btw, but that is a second argument When has the Bill of rights been changed in the past. I'll wait.
boyst Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 If this would have happened at my school I'd buy dozens of 2nd protects the first and Mulan rouge shirts to pass out. God damn pussies.
TakeYouToTasker Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 14 minutes ago, row_33 said: it's very hard in the year 2018 to see Azalin invoke Creator and God in an argument and not see it as pushing religion. I'm not sure what hamlet you live in, or commune, but it's 2018 and using the words Creator and God, even in the most weak sense, is religion-signalling that's all... The entire concept of human rights is embedded in religion, and begins with John Locke. He was arguing, against the Church and the Crown (but I repeat myself), that God created all men equal in the capacity of rights, and thusly no man had the "Devine Authority" of dominion over others, which until this point in time was how society was organized. It was Locke's words which inspired Jefferson in his declaration, and were the inspiration for self-governance. The idea, if you wish to secularize it, is that rights are an intrinsic part of humanity, as much a part of you as your heart or brain. Any movement from that principal is a defacto movement away from Enlightenment thinking, and back towards the Dark Ages of monarchal rule. 1 minute ago, garybusey said: The impetus was 17 of their classmates and/or peers being gunned down. No, it wasn't. That's the excuse. They're taking a day out of school, encouraged to do so by immoral, communist gun grabbers like yourself. 1
LeviF Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 16 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Let's have a reasonable conversation about this, because that is what is missing in this entire issue. I will state again: I believe in the Second Amendment and support the Haller decision by the Supreme Court. You have the right to bear arms, as we all do. But as Judge Scalia pointed out in his decision, that does not mean you have the right to bear any arm you want to bear. You cannot own a bazooka, correct? My math makes sense. If you have a weapon that can shoot ten times more ammunition than a weapon that does not, that weapon can do more damage. That really is just basic math. Is there not room for all to come to an agreement that, for example, the bump stocks used in Las Vegas should be eliminated? Or that magazines that carry more than a certain amount of bullets be regulated? I am all for other measures supported I suspect by you,, such as enhanced police at schools. But if we as a society are ever going to going events like we saw last week to a halt, everyone needs to come to a compromise somewhere in the middle. I am not a gun grabber. I don't own one myself, but support your right to own one. But explain to me how your life would be affected if there were restrictions placed of the type of guns used in the vast majority of the types of incidents we saw last week. Again, you have the gall to call yourself reasonable when you insist on calling a situation in which you get whatever you think you want and I get nothing a "compromise." The intellectual dishonesty you've managed to doublethink your way into (I don't think you're being this way purposefully) is astounding.
Warren Zevon Posted February 21, 2018 Posted February 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: They're taking a day out of school, encouraged to do so by immoral, communist gun grabbers like yourself. ...because 17 of their classmates/peers were gunned down.
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