Buftex Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) McKelvin had a few suspect games last year. Some games where you just didn't realize he was on the field. Are we forgetting that? When Robey was on the field he made a bigger impact then McKevlin but the sample size is much smaller Jboyst, I thought McKelvin was mostly excellent last year...what games are you referring to? As I recall, it was the other corner position that was the most erratic last season. Edited July 11, 2014 by Buftex
mrags Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 they didnt sign Graham to be the 4th CB and with Gilmore and McKelvin starting that leaves Robey as 4th CB at best chances are they plan to play a lot of dime defense. It should be more like 3a and 3b really. And they do need depth. And they also lost a stud DB in Byrd so maybe they were originally thinking he would make the move to S. And we lost at least 1 game last year because Gilmore was down and Rogers was raped at starting DB so maybe they don't want to chance that again. I'm not that impressed with Joe B. He always sounds so tentative, like he doesn't believe what he's saying. He reminds me of a guy in over his head at a job interview trying to BS his way through it. agree
boyst Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Jboyst, I thought McKelvin was mostly excellent last year...what games are you referring to? a few games last year when he had no reliable safety help. I'll have to look back. He player extremely well, though
Mark80 Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 chances are they plan to play a lot of dime defense. It should be more like 3a and 3b really. And they do need depth. And they also lost a stud DB in Byrd so maybe they were originally thinking he would make the move to S. And we lost at least 1 game last year because Gilmore was down and Rogers was raped at starting DB so maybe they don't want to chance that again. agree Worst DB I've ever seen on the field for any team in any NFL game.
mrags Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Worst DB I've ever seen on the field for any team in any NFL game. during that Jets game. Absolutely.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Nobody on our entire team did well against the run last season. While I think Robey was a very good "Nickell" last season, the OP is correct, an outside CB is always going to be more valuable than a nickel back, especially one who played as well as Leodis did last season. Robey wasn't that far off though. There were several players who were good defending the run last season, the rushing defense as a whole (largely by virtue of the scheme) was not very good. Robey is a very solid, technically sound tackler, and has not been afraid to get in there and mix it up.
yungmack Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Schwartz started off with Robey down the depth chart, but by the break he had him back with the starters. More important, he was raving about him.
Mark80 Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 There were several players who were good defending the run last season, the rushing defense as a whole (largely by virtue of the scheme) was not very good. Robey is a very solid, technically sound tackler, and has not been afraid to get in there and mix it up. Agreed, but if a lineman got to his level he was blown up (and rightfully so for a DB). I agree a very solid open field tackler though and should be much more effective against the run (and the team as a whole) with our personnel and scheme changes.
Buftex Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Worst DB I've ever seen on the field for any team in any NFL game. Some of the greatest corners in NFL history started out as the worst DB people have ever seen on any team in any NFL game... cliche as it is, the corner position is the toughest position to make the leap from college to the pros, outside of QB. There have been some great DB's over the years who have failed miserably their first season or two... remember the mass hysteria here over Aaron Williams not too long ago?
HankBulloughMellencamp Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Joe B and his top 20 rankings of Bills officially became a joke when he listed Robey at 14 well ahead of McKelvin. Is he serious? The position McKelvin played last year is far more difficult than a nickel/slot corner, and as an outside corner McKelvin was often tasked with covering the other teams #1 receiver. And in Pettine's defense, McKelvin was put on an island and did very well. Regardless an outside corner is far more valuable, and far better paid than a slot guy. An NFL team NEVER drafts a cb in round one with the intent of putting him in the slot. The more demanding position by far is outside, ie Revis, Sherman etc. we did not draft Gilmore to play the slot. So Joe B. defended his ranking on WGR yesterday by stating in part that Robey made more plays, including sacks. Hey Joe, the slot guy should have more sacks - he is asked to blitz more often because he is always lined up so much closer to the QB. Comparing the position of slot corner to outside is comparing apples to oranges - one position is so much more demanding - that's why all the great NFL CB s play outside. Joe B was "shocked" when Robey was originally placed on second string during recent OTAs. Well Joe, this was done after a real NFL expert, Jim Schwartz, spent the winter reviewing film. And probably saw how weak Robey was in run support, a critical function for a slot guy. I like Robey as a player, and it looks like he has played himself back on to starting unit. But there's a reason McKelvin was a #1 pick, who was just resigned to a multi year, multi million dollar contract. The undrafted Robey, as much as I like him, is in no way shape or form superior to McKelvin. That laughing you are hearing from one bills drive is NFL coaches reading that WGR s "expert" would rank Robey higher than McKelvin. I could not agree more with this. Robey was a great find, and made some spectacular plays, but a legit NFL corner is a legit NFL corner, and McKelvin has become that. The contract he signed before last year (that seemingly 90% of this board was upset with) now seems like a relative pittance for what he offers. Most teams overpay for experienced corners, and as Buddy liked to say, you can never have enough of ‘em. I'm not that impressed with Joe B. He always sounds so tentative, like he doesn't believe what he's saying. He reminds me of a guy in over his head at a job interview trying to BS his way through it. I don’t hate Joe B … he works very hard at his job, and surely loves what he does. If anything, I am envious of him. But when he is a guest on WGR, he constantly talks in generalities, and hedges his bet on almost everything. He pretends to know the nuances of line play, and he doesn’t. I am not saying I know more, but I am in total agreement with PTR ... it’s as if he is trying to BS his way through tough interview questioning.
Wayne Cubed Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 McKelvin had a few suspect games last year. Some games where you just didn't realize he was on the field. Are we forgetting that? Surely that's a positive for a CB. The best thing a CB can do is not be noticed, meaning the ball isn't coming his way because he's "shut down" his receiver. I agree with some of what the OP says, Robey has the flashy sacks and the 1 int but wasn't on the field nearly as much as McKelvin was (609 snaps vs. 927 snaps).
mountainwampus Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 I agree that McKelvin had a great year and seems to be improving every year, but has he ever done a backflip into the endzone on a pick 6? Also, are we all ready to forget about his kickoff fumble vs Pats way back in '09?? That was heartbreaking and stupid. So far Robey hasn't done anything wrong, just awesome plays.
billybrew1 Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Joe B and his top 20 rankings of Bills officially became a joke when he listed Robey at 14 well ahead of McKelvin. Is he serious? The position McKelvin played last year is far more difficult than a nickel/slot corner, and as an outside corner McKelvin was often tasked with covering the other teams #1 receiver. And in Pettine's defense, McKelvin was put on an island and did very well. Regardless an outside corner is far more valuable, and far better paid than a slot guy. An NFL team NEVER drafts a cb in round one with the intent of putting him in the slot. The more demanding position by far is outside, ie Revis, Sherman etc. we did not draft Gilmore to play the slot. So Joe B. defended his ranking on WGR yesterday by stating in part that Robey made more plays, including sacks. Hey Joe, the slot guy should have more sacks - he is asked to blitz more often because he is always lined up so much closer to the QB. Comparing the position of slot corner to outside is comparing apples to oranges - one position is so much more demanding - that's why all the great NFL CB s play outside. Joe B was "shocked" when Robey was originally placed on second string during recent OTAs. Well Joe, this was done after a real NFL expert, Jim Schwartz, spent the winter reviewing film. And probably saw how weak Robey was in run support, a critical function for a slot guy. I like Robey as a player, and it looks like he has played himself back on to starting unit. But there's a reason McKelvin was a #1 pick, who was just resigned to a multi year, multi million dollar contract. The undrafted Robey, as much as I like him, is in no way shape or form superior to McKelvin. That laughing you are hearing from one bills drive is NFL coaches reading that WGR s "expert" would rank Robey higher than McKelvin. I am 100% with you on this one. It's just Joe B's opinion but it is just so wrong. He is supposed to be an "expert" telling us about the Bills and this is just nonsense. Not only is Robey limited to nickle-back, he is limited to part-time nickle-back.he got killed last year facing Cincinatti and their set of big receivers. If we match-up against three tall receivers again, look for Graham to be the slot corner. The post creator was spot-on in his assessment, I am just adding to it. I'll end it by stating that Leodis McKelvin is also our #1 punt returner and has been a top punt returner in the NFL for a long time in addition to being the starting LCB. Geez, Joe! Are you trying to go, "shock-jock" like that moron at the News?
Johnny Hammersticks Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Was Robey not ranked by PFF as the best nickel corner in the NFL last season? I don't have a link, but I'm pretty sure he was. That's pretty impressive if you ask me. Slot corner has become a very vital defensive position, and he plays it at a very high level.
goBills1 Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Last year was Leo's 6th season in the league and he finally had a decent year. and it just so happened to come in the same year that the team set a franchise record for sacks. a couple of years ago he was called a "bust" all over this board. The only reason he got a new contract is because of his returning abilities and possibly our horrible lack of depth at the position. The guy had 1 pick this year...1 and people are acting like hes a stud, please...he had an above average season, yes. but to act like to Joe B is crazy for saying Robey is #12 on his list shows how much you know. whoever posted this and claimed the outside corner position is much more demanding know absolutely nothing about defense and probably didnt play past high school. The nickel corner has way more reads to make depending on the offensive formation, whether someone goes in motion, etc. sometimes they end up covering a TE, sometimes they basically become an OLB and are forced with taking on blocks from tackles, TE's and FBs...the fact that Robey came in undrafted and played the way he did is astonishing. The closing speed and playmaking ability that he possesses make him an extremely valuable player in this league. and to make light of his game changing sacks by saying that he is supposed to because he is lined up closer to the QB is the most idiotic thing ive ever heard. he still has to beat a 6'7" 350lb tackle....the reason they never asked Leodis to blitz is because he isnt great at it...Robey is. And billybrew1 saying that robey got beat all day against cincy??? did you watch the game? b/c i saw our #8 overall pick, Mr Gilmore get abused all game because he had the club on and cincy exploited him by throwing screens at him all day, he couldnt get off a block to save his life. i dont blame him i blame the coaches for putting him out there with such a disability. anyhow, joe B is the best reporter that WGR has by far and by ripping him for giving his opinion is not only weak, its dumb because the arguments you are making against his opinion are simply wrong. try again.
Chandler#81 Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Some of the greatest corners in NFL history started out as the worst DB people have ever seen on any team in any NFL game... cliche as it is, the corner position is the toughest position to make the leap from college to the pros, outside of QB. There have been some great DB's over the years who have failed miserably their first season or two... remember the mass hysteria here over Aaron Williams not too long ago? And to this I will echo yet again.. Don't sleep on Ron Brooks! I think he can be fantastic and, if healthy, will absolutely push for 3rd CB/slot cover.
You herd it hear last Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 Some of the greatest corners in NFL history started out as the worst DB people have ever seen on any team in any NFL game... cliche as it is, the corner position is the toughest position to make the leap from college to the pros, outside of QB. There have been some great DB's over the years who have failed miserably their first season or two... remember the mass hysteria here over Aaron Williams not too long ago? chef Hill needs to know if you would like butter or jam on your rogers... maybe both?...you can also choose from white or wheat rogers...
Mark80 Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) Some of the greatest corners in NFL history started out as the worst DB people have ever seen on any team in any NFL game... cliche as it is, the corner position is the toughest position to make the leap from college to the pros, outside of QB. There have been some great DB's over the years who have failed miserably their first season or two... remember the mass hysteria here over Aaron Williams not too long ago? Maybe, but that was on another level of terrible. So bad that two other teams signed him and released in like 10 days last season as well. Actually, I'm surprised KC is giving him another shot this season. I expect him out of the league for good in a matter of weeks / months. Edited July 11, 2014 by Mark80
vegas55 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Posted July 11, 2014 Last year was Leo's 6th season in the league and he finally had a decent year. and it just so happened to come in the same year that the team set a franchise record for sacks. a couple of years ago he was called a "bust" all over this board. The only reason he got a new contract is because of his returning abilities and possibly our horrible lack of depth at the position. The guy had 1 pick this year...1 and people are acting like hes a stud, please...he had an above average season, yes. but to act like to Joe B is crazy for saying Robey is #12 on his list shows how much you know. whoever posted this and claimed the outside corner position is much more demanding know absolutely nothing about defense and probably didnt play past high school. The nickel corner has way more reads to make depending on the offensive formation, whether someone goes in motion, etc. sometimes they end up covering a TE, sometimes they basically become an OLB and are forced with taking on blocks from tackles, TE's and FBs...the fact that Robey came in undrafted and played the way he did is astonishing. The closing speed and playmaking ability that he possesses make him an extremely valuable player in this league. and to make light of his game changing sacks by saying that he is supposed to because he is lined up closer to the QB is the most idiotic thing ive ever heard. he still has to beat a 6'7" 350lb tackle....the reason they never asked Leodis to blitz is because he isnt great at it...Robey is. And billybrew1 saying that robey got beat all day against cincy??? did you watch the game? b/c i saw our #8 overall pick, Mr Gilmore get abused all game because he had the club on and cincy exploited him by throwing screens at him all day, he couldnt get off a block to save his life. i dont blame him i blame the coaches for putting him out there with such a disability. anyhow, joe B is the best reporter that WGR has by far and by ripping him for giving his opinion is not only weak, its dumb because the arguments you are making against his opinion are simply wrong. try again. Okay that's a joke right? Slot corners are asked to blitz more ONLY because they are lined up closer to the QB. Period. You mean the great athlete that Leodis is, with a clear path to QB, can't make that sack. And of course this post does not explain why all the premiere corner backs in the NFL play on the outside, and the scrubs play the slot. Like the typical fan who only watches the ball on TV, and NEVER watches actually watches game film, somehow has better insight into the game than Jim Schwartz or every other NFL executive who values an outside corner far more than the idiots who post on this board.
Flip Johnson Posted July 11, 2014 Posted July 11, 2014 I'm not that impressed with Joe B. He always sounds so tentative, like he doesn't believe what he's saying. He reminds me of a guy in over his head at a job interview trying to BS his way through it. Agree. Buscaglia tries to sound like a dispassionate analytics guy but rarely has any actual data or expertise. I like that he tries to be a serious football reporter but his conclusions are always safe and after the fact.
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