DC Tom Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 It's a bit more nuanced than that. Hamas escalates the provocations when it runs out of money. This time they got caught in a huge jam, because they had backed Morsi's government in Egypt and moved away from Syria & Iran. They publicly baked the uprising against Assad. When Morsi was deposed, al Sisi wanted nothing to do with Hamas, and Syria & Iran didn't welcome them back. So left without options, they launched the suicide mission against Israel hoping to get some favorable attention from their patrons. But yes, Hamas are the victims in this drama. Well...yeah. But nuance is wasted on this target audience.
truth on hold Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) It's a bit more nuanced than that. Hamas escalates the provocations when it runs out of money. This time they got caught in a huge jam, because they had backed Morsi's government in Egypt and moved away from Syria & Iran. They publicly baked the uprising against Assad. When Morsi was deposed, al Sisi wanted nothing to do with Hamas, and Syria & Iran didn't welcome them back. So left without options, they launched the suicide mission against Israel hoping to get some favorable attention from their patrons. But yes, Hamas are the victims in this drama. The part about them being politically isolated is correct, the part of them launching a "suicide mission" is demonstrably false. The well known chronology reads: - US brokered peace talks fall apart because Israel would not stop building settlements and did not release prisoners as part of the agreement. - hamas reconcilew with Abbas Fatah because, as you say, they are politically isolated. This is a great opportunity for hamas militant angle to be diluted in the larger and pacifist Fatah party - US and Europe recognize Abbas new government. Netanyahu is now the one politically isolated - when the 3 Israeli settlers are kidnapped he sees this an opportunity to scapegoat Hamas and derail the peace train. Even though hamas claims no responsibilty he arrests hundreds in the west bank, kills some in gaza with missile strikes, and cuts off salaries to thousands of palistinian workers. Squeezed this badly they do what he wanted all along' fire rockets (mostly harmless) giving him the excuse to invade Gaza and retake the agenda. So this homicidal maniac's political agenda, armed and supported by the US taxpayer, has resulted in deaths of nearly 2,000 palis (mostly women and children) and 64 IDF soldiers (mostly around 20 in age) Peace process is dead and netanyahu gets to stall another few years and build more west bank settlements. Edited August 5, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack
truth on hold Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) look who's supporting "killing children" (in the extremist's view) and on his birthday yet ABC News ✔ @ABC Follow Pres. Obama signs bill for $225,000,000 in "emergency supplemental funding” for Israel's Iron Dome defense system Oh ..... by the way "Bi-partisan fans, The Iron Dome bill passed the Senate Friday by voice vote and passed the House by a overwhelming 395-8 vote later in the day. . Not every central government is in the throes of AIPAC Spain freezes arms exports to Israel over Gaza http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.608900 Britain says reviewing arms exports to Israel over Gaza conflict http://news.yahoo.com/britain-says-reviewing-arms-exports-israel-over-gaza-113559410--business.html Edited August 5, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack
Nanker Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 So I guess it's Bush's fault Iron Dome is getting refreshed.
GG Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 The part about them being politically isolated is correct, the part of them launching a "suicide mission" is demonstrably false. The well known chronology reads: - US brokered peace talks fall apart because Israel would not stop building settlements and did not release prisoners as part of the agreement. - hamas reconcilew with Abbas Fatah because, as you say, they are politically isolated. This is a great opportunity for hamas militant angle to be diluted in the larger and pacifist Fatah party - US and Europe recognize Abbas new government. Netanyahu is now the one politically isolated - when the 3 Israeli settlers are kidnapped he sees this an opportunity to scapegoat Hamas and derail the peace train. Even though hamas claims no responsibilty he arrests hundreds in the west bank, kills some in gaza with missile strikes, and cuts off salaries to thousands of palistinian workers. Squeezed this badly they do what he wanted all along' fire rockets (mostly harmless) giving him the excuse to invade Gaza and retake the agenda. So this homicidal maniac's political agenda, armed and supported by the US taxpayer, has resulted in deaths of nearly 2,000 palis (mostly women and children) and 64 IDF soldiers (mostly around 20 in age) Peace process is dead and netanyahu gets to stall another few years and build more west bank settlements. You're an idiot. Israel swapped 1,000+ prisoners for one soldier held in captivity for years. The "unity" government was in name only, and you still haven't answered why Abbas hasn't responded more forcefully to the Gaza incursion, if there was in fact a unity government. The kidnappings of the three teens was not the reason Israel struck back so hard (if you had actually been paying attention and applied critical thinking). It was the tunnels, as when Israel uncovered a plot by Hamas to enter Israel & wage terror and take prisoners. As I said from the beginning, the response was too strong to avenge a kidnapping, so something bigger was the impetus. The network of tunnels is bigger than the incident with the kids in the West Bank. Hamas is still isolated and Iran & Syria haven't moved to help them. Hopefully IDF delivered a solid blow. Too bad the world still has a lot of Hamas apologists like you that excuse away their actions that hurt the ordinary people. You're an idiot.
Justice Posted August 5, 2014 Author Posted August 5, 2014 I don't think anyone is excusing Hamas for their actions. They're pathetic attempt at waging "war" with a vastly superior opponent only leads to more and more bloodshed. It doesn't make sense. They won't and can't win this battle. Israel will not reward them for launching rockets into Israel. No way! So why do they continue? It doesn't make much sense. The only answer I have to that is they don't mind proceeding with this fight because they're not the ones getting killed. The innocent people of Gaza are paying the ultimate price, not Hamas. If they want the blockade to end then they should remove themselves from power and stop attacking Israel. If Israel doesn't reward their non-violent ways then the int'l community will have to get involved. What has angered me recently is all this talk how the US govt is condemning Israel for their latest bombings but yet still send over approximately $1B in aid. Do they really think people are that stupid? Their actions speak louder than their words. I feel for the innocent lives that were lost. Generations and generations of hate will only continue when you punish a people collectively. It's sad.
meazza Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 I don't think anyone is excusing Hamas for their actions. They're pathetic attempt at waging "war" with a vastly superior opponent only leads to more and more bloodshed. It doesn't make sense. They won't and can't win this battle. Israel will not reward them for launching rockets into Israel. No way! So why do they continue? It doesn't make much sense. The only answer I have to that is they don't mind proceeding with this fight because they're not the ones getting killed. The innocent people of Gaza are paying the ultimate price, not Hamas. If they want the blockade to end then they should remove themselves from power and stop attacking Israel. If Israel doesn't reward their non-violent ways then the int'l community will have to get involved. What has angered me recently is all this talk how the US govt is condemning Israel for their latest bombings but yet still send over approximately $1B in aid. Do they really think people are that stupid? Their actions speak louder than their words. I feel for the innocent lives that were lost. Generations and generations of hate will only continue when you punish a people collectively. It's sad. 1B? I thought it was 200M? Anyways the money is being used for Iron Dome which as far as I know, isn't being used to bombard Gaza. That being said, I posted an article from a page ago from Haaretz which I found interesting. Was a bit long but you should read it.
meazza Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Will-captured-Hamas-manual-on-using-human-shields-help-Israel-block-war-crimes-trials-370154 According to the IDF (and confirmed independently in a CNN report), the posted pages of the manual focus on urban warfare, and discuss the benefits to Hamas when its own civilians' homes are destroyed. It has two salient points relating to the war crimes issue. The IDF said that the manual: 1) reveals that Hamas knows or recognizes the IDF is committed to minimizing harm to civilians 2) explains how the civilian population can be used against IDF forces and 2) Based on these two points, the IDF stated that Hamas’ callous and systematic use of the Gazan population as "human shields" was intentional and preplanned. In a portion entitled “Limiting the Use of Weapons,” the IDF said the manual explains that: The soldiers and commanders (of the IDF) must limit their use of weapons and tactics that lead to the harm and unnecessary loss of people and [destruction of] civilian facilities. It is difficult for them to get the most use out of their firearms, especially of supporting fire [e.g. artillery]. The IDF concluded that Hamas knows the IDF will limit its use of greater firepower in support of infantry weapons in order to avoid harming civilians. The manual goes on to explain that the presence of civilians among pockets of resistance causes three major problems for IDF forces: (1) Problems with opening fire (2) Problems in controlling the civilian population during operations and afterward (3) Assurance of supplying medical care to civilians who need it Lastly, the manual discusses the benefits for Hamas when civilian homes are destroyed: The destruction of civilian homes: This increases the hatred of the citizens towards the attackers [the IDF] and increases their gathering [support] around the city defenders (resistance forces[i.e. Hamas]).
Ralonzo Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 (edited) My father hung me on a hook once. Once. Edited August 5, 2014 by Ralonzo
Justice Posted August 5, 2014 Author Posted August 5, 2014 1B? I thought it was 200M? Anyways the money is being used for Iron Dome which as far as I know, isn't being used to bombard Gaza. That being said, I posted an article from a page ago from Haaretz which I found interesting. Was a bit long but you should read it. $225M for iron dome. They also supplied them with close to $700m in weaponry. I'm trying to find the link. I'll post it when I find it.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 My father hung me on a hook once. Once. Major points for the johnny dangerously reference.
GG Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 I don't think anyone is excusing Hamas for their actions. They're pathetic attempt at waging "war" with a vastly superior opponent only leads to more and more bloodshed. It doesn't make sense. They won't and can't win this battle. Israel will not reward them for launching rockets into Israel. No way! So why do they continue? It doesn't make much sense. The only answer I have to that is they don't mind proceeding with this fight because they're not the ones getting killed. The innocent people of Gaza are paying the ultimate price, not Hamas. If they want the blockade to end then they should remove themselves from power and stop attacking Israel. If Israel doesn't reward their non-violent ways then the int'l community will have to get involved. What has angered me recently is all this talk how the US govt is condemning Israel for their latest bombings but yet still send over approximately $1B in aid. Do they really think people are that stupid? Their actions speak louder than their words. I feel for the innocent lives that were lost. Generations and generations of hate will only continue when you punish a people collectively. It's sad. Finally a post that makes sense. While no one is willing to say they are backing Hamas, by conflating IDF's actions against Hamas with IDF's actions against all Palestinians gives Hamas a pass. The secondary goal of Israel's incursion is to weaken support for Hamas in Gaza. Let's hope that people rise up against them, because it's insane to follow a suicidal sect.
DC Tom Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 $225M for iron dome. They also supplied them with close to $700m in weaponry. I'm trying to find the link. I'll post it when I find it. I've got no problem supplying aid for Iron Dome, frankly. Iron Dome isn't killing anyone. To the rest of the aid...I do recall reading that the US supplied Israel with some ammo very recently, as the IAF and IDF stocks were running low.
Keukasmallies Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Ammo, the IDF needs ammo? Why not just chuck some punk'ins with gift certificates in them in response to the Hamas rockets...maybe that would be OK w/ the "world community."
birdog1960 Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 $225M for iron dome. They also supplied them with close to $700m in weaponry. I'm trying to find the link. I'll post it when I find it. here's a good reference: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stat/usaid.html. pretty extensive references on media bias, settlements, discrimination etc as well
meazza Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 here's a good reference: http://www.ifamerica...stat/usaid.html. pretty extensive references on media bias, settlements, discrimination etc as well Ladies and gentlemen, exhibit A.
DC Tom Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 here's a good reference: http://www.ifamerica...stat/usaid.html. pretty extensive references on media bias, settlements, discrimination etc as well Now do one that shows the imbalance of aid to Tutsi vs. Hutu, or Rugova vs. Milosevic.
birdog1960 Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Ladies and gentlemen, exhibit A. how bout you cite a source that refutes these aid figures?
DC Tom Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 how bout you cite a source that refutes these aid figures? Did I miss something? Why does he have to?
birdog1960 Posted August 5, 2014 Posted August 5, 2014 Now do one that shows the imbalance of aid to Tutsi vs. Hutu, or Rugova vs. Milosevic. we don't give 50% of our foreign military aid to any of them. the aid given to nearly any other single entity is spit in the ocean in comparison to israeli military aid. (and we allow them to purchase their own home produced munitions - something no other aided country is allowed)
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