meazza Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 There is no merit in proportional warfare. It only encourages your enemy. The only moral action is to decimate them. The only moral action. Yes I heard you the first 50 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) An update: Israel has agreed to suspending all attacks on Thursday to allow for UN humanitarian aid. They have stated, however, that if Hamas seizes the opportunity to make advances and do violence, that they will react swiftly and harshly. Anyone care to set odds on Hamas' reaction? NoJustice: You have a fundamental misunderstanding about the nature of war, power, and leverage. Israel has no incentive to give the Palestinians anything other than peace, but the Palestinian people reject it. You are not in a position to demand concessions. You are in a position to surrender and beg mercy in that exact order. Edited July 17, 2014 by TakeYouToTasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Life can't continue going this way for both sides. Israel has to give to get and vice-versa. There's only one or two solutions here. Either go back to the '67 borders, dismantle all settlements and give the Palestinians control of themselves like any free country would have. As part of the deal make sure the Palestinians can never assemble a military. The other option is to keep Israel as a whole, but give everyone equal human rights. That's it. Nothing else will work. Until then the cycle of violence will continue. Israel's attacks only lead to making new members of Hamas and vice versa. I do agree that the more bombs that are dropped, the more radicalized younger Gaza citizens become but how do you expect Israel to negotiate with a unity government that is completely opposite of each other. While Fatah has essentially renounced violence, Hamas hasn't. Like Tom said earlier in this thread, stop acting like an angry un coordinated mob and the Israelis will have less of a leg to stand on. The Israelis I know want peace but they want their safety first. The reason that very few Israelis actually get killed in the attacks is because every home in Israel has a built in bomb shelter and the Iron dome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Life can't continue going this way for both sides. Israel has to give to get and vice-versa. There's only one or two solutions here. Either go back to the '67 borders, dismantle all settlements and give the Palestinians control of themselves like any free country would have. As part of the deal make sure the Palestinians can never assemble a military. The other option is to keep Israel as a whole, but give everyone equal human rights. That's it. Nothing else will work. Until then the cycle of violence will continue. Israel's attacks only lead to making new members of Hamas and vice versa. Going back to the '67 borders, while impossible, would also be stupid for Israel. Rewarding Palestinian insurgency is like giving your dog a treat for crapping on the carpet. It's not done in war or civil war, whichever you want to call this. Edited July 17, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Boys Drawn to Gaza Beach, and Into Center of Mideast Strife by ANNE BARNARD New York Times JULY 16, 2014 GAZA CITY — The four Bakr boys were young cousins, the children of Gaza fishermen who had ordered them to stay indoors — and especially away from the beach. But cooped up for nine days during Israeli bombardments, the children defied their parents and went out Wednesday afternoon, the eldest shooing away his little brother, telling him it was too dangerous. As they played on and around a jetty in the late-afternoon sun, a blast hit a nearby shack. One boy was killed instantly. The others ran. There was a second blast, and three more bodies littered the sand. One was charred, missing a leg, and another lay motionless, his curly head intact, his legs splayed at unnatural angles. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/17/world/middleeast/gaza-strip-beach-explosion-kills-children.html?_r=0&referrer= Edited July 17, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Going back to the '67 borders, while impossible, would also be stupid for Israel. Rewarding Palestinian insurgency is like giving your dog a treat for crapping on the carpet. It's not done in war or civil war, whichever you want to call this. Seeing the Palestinians actually already populate the vast majority of the West Bank and Gaza I see no good reason for Israel not letting them have their own state, other than wanting to completely annihilate the Palestinians and drive them off the map. Maybe they just like to keep their foot on people's throats, for the fun of it. And no it isn't "impossible or stupid", like you put it. It would be smart and the right thing to do. It would bring peace to the people of Israel. I do agree that the more bombs that are dropped, the more radicalized younger Gaza citizens become but how do you expect Israel to negotiate with a unity government that is completely opposite of each other. While Fatah has essentially renounced violence, Hamas hasn't. Like Tom said earlier in this thread, stop acting like an angry un coordinated mob and the Israelis will have less of a leg to stand on. The Israelis I know want peace but they want their safety first. The reason that very few Israelis actually get killed in the attacks is because every home in Israel has a built in bomb shelter and the Iron dome. Like I said before, either go back to '67 borders or give everyone equal rights. I see that you guys completely ignore the latter whenever I bring it up. That's the only way. After a few years and most likely a few more scraps along the way, true peace will finally be attained and there will be no need for Hamas or any of the kind. Edited July 17, 2014 by NoJustice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Seeing the Palestinians actually already populate the vast majority of the West Bank and Gaza I see no good reason for Israel not letting them have their own state, other than wanting to complete toy annihilate the Palestinians and drive them completely off the map. Maybe they just like to keep their foot on people's throats. And no it isn't "impossible or stupid", like you put it. It would be smart and the right thing to do. It would bring peace to the people of Israel. Like I said before, either go back to '67 borders or give everyone equal rights. I see that you guys completely ignore the latter whenever I bring it up. That's the only way. After a few years and most likely a few scraps along the way, true peace will finally be attained and there will be no need for Hamas or any of the kind. So, you are claiming a need for Hamas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 So, you are claiming a need for Hamas? Do you even read my posts? Hamas provides the people of Gaza with their day to day needs. Israel won't do it. They just like to control you. They have all the benefits of controlling another people with none of the financial negatives that goes along with it, like fixing roads, education etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 2.5 hrs, that lasted a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Let me guess, this is your next rebuttal: Duuuh, well you can't let the Palestinians have their own state because it jeopardizes the safety of the state of Israel. Is that about right? No. It doesn't. They're already surrounded by countries that hate them and they're still here and even stronger than ever. Don't buy that BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 That's a lazy and shallow response. Israel has had reasonably decent relationship with Egypt and Jordan for forty years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Do you even read my posts? Hamas provides the people of Gaza with their day to day needs. Israel won't do it. They just like to control you. They have all the benefits of controlling another people with none of the financial negatives that goes along with it, like fixing roads, education etc etc. You speak out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand you denounce Hamas and say they are evil while on the other hand you say they are needed. What benefits does Israel gain by controlling another people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) . You speak out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand you denounce Hamas and say they are evil while on the other hand you say they are needed. What benefits does Israel gain by controlling another people? If there was someone else out there willing to do those things then Hamas wouldn't be needed. They're a necessary evil. Hamas gained popularity prior to the elections by helping out the people. That's how they won. There wouldn't even have been elections had someone not forced that issue, in the first place. I wonder who that was? Hmm. Is that a serious question? You're kidding, right? They still benefit financially from car registration fees, one day visas into Israel, the ability to enter whenever they want, the ability to steal land and build illegal settlements whenever they want, etcetera etcetera. Edited July 17, 2014 by NoJustice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Yes I heard you the first 50 times. And you'll hear it again, as often as I choose to express it. Feel free to not read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 And you'll hear it again, as often as I choose to express it. Feel free to not read. My name's not birddog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 My name's not birddog. Good. Now that that's settled... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Let me guess, this is your next rebuttal: Duuuh, well you can't let the Palestinians have their own state because it jeopardizes the safety of the state of Israel. Is that about right? No. It doesn't. They're already surrounded by countries that hate them and they're still here and even stronger than ever. Don't buy that BS. THAT'S your point? They already have a bunch of enemies, why not give some more land and power to one more? Are you joking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Let me guess, this is your next rebuttal: Duuuh, well you can't let the Palestinians have their own state because it jeopardizes the safety of the state of Israel. Is that about right? No. It doesn't. They're already surrounded by countries that hate them and they're still here and even stronger than ever. Don't buy that BS. They are stronger than ever because they found partners for peace (Jordan & Egypt). The peace process won't advance if the more hawkish Israeli politicians are proven right (by repeated attacks from Hamas). If violence was renounced (not just in statements but in reality), there would be more of a mandate to actually negotiate for peace. If not, why as an Israeli politician, would you fold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) This is how children get killed. 20 missiles found in UN-run school in Gaza UNRWA apologizes to Israel, condemns a ‘flagrant violation of the inviolability of its premises’ and promises investigation Read more: 20 missiles found in UN-run school in Gaza | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofis.../#ixzz37jjRoTAt Edited July 17, 2014 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 THAT'S your point? They already have a bunch of enemies, why not give some more land and power to one more? Are you joking? You have an uncanny ability of taking things the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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