birdog1960 Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) an objective measure of israel's popularity (as defined by positive or negative influence in the world) in the world: http://www.bbc.com/n...europe-22624104. it ranked above only iran, pakistan and n korea on a global basis. admittedly a single poll but a huge margin of error would be necessary to shed a positive light on israel's global reputation. in comparison, a 2013 gallup poll of americans found 51% approval. on the israel/palestinian question 78% of republicans sided with israel. a significantly smaller number of dems agreed but still a small majority. most here discount the effect of media on these numbers. what are your alternative explanations? Edited July 15, 2014 by birdog1960
FireChan Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 an objective measure of israel's popularity (as defined by positive or negative influence in the world) in the world: http://www.bbc.com/n...europe-22624104. it ranked above only iran, pakistan and n korea on a global basis. admittedly a single poll but a huge margin of error would be necessary to shed a positive light on israel's global reputation. in comparison, a 2013 gallup poll of americans found 51% approval. on the israel/palestinian question 78% of republicans sided with israel. a significantly smaller number of dems agreed but still a small majority. most here discount the effect of media on these numbers. what are your alternative explanations? The fact that we're !@#$ing allies and have been for 70 years. Look at our numbers on opinion with Great Britain. I bet they're huge too.
Justice Posted July 15, 2014 Author Posted July 15, 2014 What you guys think about this? http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2014/07/14/dwight-howard-ripped-by-jewish-org-free-palestine
GG Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 What you guys think about this? http://m.tmz.com/#Ar...-free-palestine You call us ignorant and brainwashed, yet you get your news from TMZ?
Justice Posted July 15, 2014 Author Posted July 15, 2014 You call us ignorant and brainwashed, yet you get your news from TMZ? Come on, dude, really? I don't get my news from TMZ. I came across this and asked an honest question. Don't answer it, instead of getting pissy.
Bronc24 Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 What you guys think about this? http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2014/07/14/dwight-howard-ripped-by-jewish-org-free-palestine I think he needs to develop some offensive moves.
B-Man Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 The current Hamas assault on Israel has lured the predictable coven of Palestinian nationalists, Islamists, Leftists, and anti-Semites from the woodwork to bash the Jewish state. But, more surprisingly, Israel is getting support, or at least restraint and fairness, from unexpected sources: United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon: “Today we face the risk of an all out escalation in Israel and Gaza with the threat of a ground offensive still palpable and preventable only if Hamas stops rocket firing.” The Lebanese Internal Security Forces detained two persons for having fired rockets into Israel. Egyptian security forces seized 20 rockets on their way to being smuggled into Gaza. Mahmoud Abbas, chairman of the Palestinian Authority, attended a Ha’aretz “peace conference” in Israel the day the current fighting began and has infuriated Hamas by his willingness to continue to work with the government of Israel. .
DC Tom Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 What you guys think about this? http://m.tmz.com/#Ar...-free-palestine Think about what? The story I see is "Octomom Cops Plea In Welfare Fraud Masturbation Video Case."
truth on hold Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) Interesting read..... The near total separation of Israelis and Palestinians was intended to make both safer. It’s made things worse The French philosopher Ernest Renan once defined a nation as “a group of people united by a mistaken view about the past and a hatred of their neighbours.” And while that arguably applies to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, my sense is that the deterioration we are witnessing results from something else — the growing human distance between Israelis and Palestinians who once knew each other intimately and are now virtual strangers. The change has taken place over the past 10 to 15 years because it was widely felt that mixing caused trouble and the two peoples needed to be separated if they were ever to live side by side. A result, however, has been a heightened dehumanization that has allowed the murder of four teenagers to escalate in just a few days into a series of devastating Israeli airstrikes that have killed scores and Palestinian rocket attacks that have displaced thousands. During the 1980s and ’90s, tens of thousands of Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza Strip worked in Israel. They learned Hebrew and built relations with their Israeli employers. They watched Israeli television (there was little else available), and many developed a cautious but unmistakable admiration for Israeli politics and public accountability. When Palestinians talked of building a state, it was not uncommon to hear members of their elite refer to Israel as a model. They witnessed the robust (sometimes brutal) nature of public discourse in Israel, and many liked what they saw. In turn, Israelis would venture on weekends into the West Bank, where they would get their cars fixed, shop for vegetables and snack on plates of unparalleled hummus. They attended weddings of their Palestinian employees and their children. Some Israelis and Palestinians even went into business together. http://fullcomment.n...e-things-worse/ Edited July 15, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack
birdog1960 Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 The fact that we're !@#$ing allies and have been for 70 years. Look at our numbers on opinion with Great Britain. I bet they're huge too. could you do a little more superficial analysis, please? why are we close allies with a country that most of the rest of the world dislikes intensely? some cryptic awesome benefits of this relationship have been alluded to in this thread but no specifics guiven. what are the historic benefits we've seen. what are likely to be the secret ones that some here seem confident exist? what makes us trust israel when they've sold our technology to enemie (eg china) and reportedly been selective inn sharing intelligence with us? oh, and the UK scored 78% negative on israel in the same poll. what do we know that they don't and vice versa? clearly, what the populace knows and what the gov't knows are 2 different things in both countries. why the huge diffence in attitudes of the populace?
GG Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 Come on, dude, really? I don't get my news from TMZ. I came across this and asked an honest question. Don't answer it, instead of getting pissy. How about using your energy to fight the real issue that's facing your people instead of looking for media bias? I'm sure there's a lot of consternation in WB over this development. When will you realize that your so-called leadership is hurting the population? Interesting read..... The near total separation of Israelis and Palestinians was intended to make both safer. It’s made things worse http://fullcomment.n...e-things-worse/ Funny how the story doesn't mention the reason why things fell apart after 2000. I wonder if it had anything to do with Intifada II, just as things were looking up and Arafat's power may have been slipping?
Jauronimo Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) could you do a little more superficial analysis, please? why are we close allies with a country that most of the rest of the world dislikes intensely? some cryptic awesome benefits of this relationship have been alluded to in this thread but no specifics guiven. what are the historic benefits we've seen. what are likely to be the secret ones that some here seem confident exist? what makes us trust israel when they've sold our technology to enemie (eg china) and reportedly been selective inn sharing intelligence with us? oh, and the UK scored 78% negative on israel in the same poll. what do we know that they don't and vice versa? clearly, what the populace knows and what the gov't knows are 2 different things in both countries. why the huge diffence in attitudes of the populace? You're basically asking for him to explain to you the last 70 years of world history. First, try to understand the strategic importance of the middle east. Next, look at who historically has backed Syria and Egypt in previous conflicts. What happened in '89-'90? Who is the current threat to the U.S. and Israel? Edited July 15, 2014 by Jauronimo
DC Tom Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 You're basically asking for him to explain to you the last 70 years of world history. And "why are we close allies with a country that most of the rest of the world dislikes intensely?" Yeah, that's friggin' deep...
B-Man Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 Netanyahu: If Hamas does not hold fire, Israel will have broad legitimacy to hit back hard Kerry welcomes ceasefire, urges "all other parties to accept the proposal," saying that it "provides an opportunity to end the violence and restore calm." As Hamas rockets continued to fall on Israel even after Jerusalem accepted the Egyptian ceasefire proposal at 9 A.M., Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said that if Hamas does not accept the ceasefire than Israel will “have all international legitimacy to broaden the military operation to achieve the required quiet.” Netanyahu, speaking at the beginning of a meeting in Tel Aviv with German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier, said that Israel “agreed to the Egyptian proposal in order to give an opportunity for the demilitarization of the Strip - from missiles, from rockets and from tunnels - through diplomatic means." The prime minister, in his first public comments since Israel accepted the ceasefire, said that the purpose of Operation Protective Edge was and remains to return quiet to Israel's citizens while delivering a severe blow to Hamas and other terrorist organizations. He said that Israel succeeded in hitting the terrorist organizations in Gaza very hard, and prevented their efforts to attack Israeli citizens. Sami Abu Zuhri, a Hamas spokesman in Gaza, said earlier on Tuesday that the Islamist group had not received an official ceasefire proposal, and he repeated its position that demands it has made must be met before it lays down its weapons. Hamas's armed wing, the Kassam Brigades, rejected the reported text of the truce deal, saying: "Our battle with the enemy continues and will increase in ferocity and intensity." Original Article
birdog1960 Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) You're basically asking for him to explain to you the last 70 years of world history. First, try to understand the strategic importance of the middle east. Next, look at who historically has backed Syria and Egypt in previous conflicts. What happened in '89-'90? Who is the current threat to the U.S. and Israel? no. i'm asking any of you to give specific examples of tangible benefits those 70 years of "alliance" have resulted in. we have objective evidence of the costs: $3 billion per year, loss of some exclusive military tewchnology and loss of respect from much of the rest of the world for siding with a perceived undesirable and negative regime. and i'm also asking why a majority of the populace of every other country polled believes that israel is a negative influence on the world while the US is the one outlier. "we're allies" isn't an explanation. "allies" implies symbiosis. what are the benefits that the american populace is aware of that justifies that label. if you're proposing one of those benefits is in waging a proxy war against the russians, why not just say that? then we can discuss what level of success our alliance has brought to that particular issue. Edited July 15, 2014 by birdog1960
meazza Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 no. i'm asking any of you to give specific examples of tangible benefits those 70 years of "alliance" have resulted in. we have objective evidence of the costs: $3 billion per year, loss of some exclusive military tewchnology and loss of respect from much of the rest of the world for siding with a perceived undesirable and negative regime. and i'm also asking why a majority of the populace of every other country polled believes that israel is a negative influence on the world while the US is the one outlier. "we're allies" isn't an explanation. "allies" implies symbiosis. what are the benefits that the american populace is aware of that justifies that label. if you're proposing one of those benefits is in waging a proxy war against the russians, why not just say that? then we can discuss what level of success our alliance has brought to that particular issue. The only people who believe Israel is a negative regime are the Europeans and Middle East who have been traditionally anti-semitic (and still are). In Canada, we're cool with da j00z.
Jauronimo Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 no. i'm asking any of you to give specific examples of tangible benefits those 70 years of "alliance" have resulted in. we have objective evidence of the costs: $3 billion per year, loss of some exclusive military tewchnology and loss of respect from much of the rest of the world for siding with a perceived undesirable and negative regime. and i'm also asking why a majority of the populace of every other country polled believes that israel is a negative influence on the world while the US is the one outlier. "we're allies" isn't an explanation. "allies" implies symbiosis. what are the benefits that the american populace is aware of that justifies that label. if you're proposing one of those benefits is in waging a proxy war against the russians, why not just say that? then we can discuss what level of success our alliance has brought to that particular issue. Symbiosis doesn't mean the relationship benefits both equally, and no, alliance does not imply symbiosis. If you really understood the last 70 years of U.S./Israeli history you wouldn't be asking for examples.
KD in CA Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 You might be the dumbest educated person in history. Your ability to twist yourself into a knot and find the tiniest scraps that you think somehow prove something is breathtaking in its retardedness. Bravo, Corky. Bravo. What, you are not convinced by his stirring 'there aren't any Arab TV heroes' and 'Israel lost the country popularity poll' arguments?
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