DC Tom Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 - $3B+/year aid is indisputable - we waste a ton of favors at the UN and with other nations culling support for Israel - we're viewed as hypocrits for the one-sided support - Bin Laden cited our support for Israel and treatment of Palestineans as a motive for 9/11 -- again, indisputable - Is it even worth commenting on the amount of time our politicians waste on the mideast? Repeating yourself doesn't make you any less an idiot. you're not doing it right, the going off the petrodollar is always a coincidence you turn them into radioactive parking lot for a more righteous reason. I'm doing it right. I'm doing Joe_the_6_Pack insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) Repeating yourself doesn't make you any less an idiot. not being able to respond to points makes you one Edited July 12, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) Except for earlier in this thread. That's fine with me as long as we go back to the '47 borders the "former owners" gave to BOTH the Israelis and Palestinians. And before you say "context," it was in response to this. No, I'll continue to tell you exactly how the world works. You don't get to lob rockets at someone you consider an enemy, and not expect retaliation. Further, you don't get to do this continually, over multiple generations, while at the same time expecting to be treated as if you didn't. The Jews did not steal anything from you. They were given the land by it's former owner, who had been allowing you to squat on it, until they decided to use it for another purpose. The land wasn't yours. You have no rights of return, you have no right to anything. What you should do, is STOP LOBBING ROCKETS INTO ISRAEL, AND STOP DEFENDING, SUPPORTING, OR CONDONING THOSE WHO DO. Unless you can do this, you should be destroyed, as Israel, the rightful owners of the land, have every right to defend themselves from your asshatery. - TTT Now that brings us back to might is right. Which you don't seem to agree with because you're on the losing side (sorry if that offends you, but that's how it comes across) Seriously, OC's post on the public opinion of Palestinians is a good read. And I'm saying this as a poster who thinks OC is a long-winded blow hard. Your people, defending themselves or not, are going about it the wrong way. Look at the people who caused sweeping changes in the world of opinion. Gandhi, MLK, that burning monk. If your people are getting brutalized, fighting back only serves to demonize your cause. Lastly, I still don't care, "who started it." Really, it means nothing to me or anyone else. You want things to change? Be the victims of violence, not the contributors. And yes, I realize you personally can't do much. But your freedom fighters or whatever they want to call themselves don't have the numbers or strength to win by force, and that's why them keeping this **** up will result in their own destruction. Our country is run by the TV media. You want to get the Americans on your side a little more? Give them some footage that can't be spun as Arab terrorists or combatants. Give them some footage of peace or morality. You still got the context wrong. Here it is: Him: "The Jews did not steal anything from you. They were given the land by it's former owner, who had been allowing you to squat on it, until they decided to use it for another purpose. The land wasn't yours." Here's my reply: b]That's fine with me as long as we go back to the '47 borders the "former owners" gave to BOTH the Israelis and Palestinians.[/b] I've constantly said go back to the pre '67 borders. Give me a minute. I'll find it. Kinda hard on an iPhone. Edited July 12, 2014 by NoJustice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 not being about to respond to points makes you one We were really viewed as hypocrites when we showed one-sided support for the Allies in WW2, huh? Or when we supported the West in the Cold War? Those Americans serving their own self-interests, what hypocrites! The UN favor can !@#$ right off, we are the UN. You still got the context wrong. Here it is: Him: "The Jews did not steal anything from you. They were given the land by it's former owner, who had been allowing you to squat on it, until they decided to use it for another purpose. The land wasn't yours." Here's my reply: b]That's fine with me as long as we go back to the '47 borders the "former owners" gave to BOTH the Israelis and Palestinians.[/b] Right, but you lost the '67 borders to the Israelis too. Goes back to Might is Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 not being about to respond to points makes you one Makes me one...what? Makes me less of an idiot? You can't even play the "I'm rubber, you're glue" card without !@#$ing it up. Do you EVER think before you type? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 We were really viewed as hypocrites when we showed one-sided support for the Allies in WW2, huh? Or when we supported the West in the Cold War? Those Americans serving their own self-interests, what hypocrites! The UN favor can !@#$ right off, we are the UN. Right, but you lost the '67 borders to the Israelis too. Goes back to Might is Right. Oh boy. Yes we lost, but we didn't start that war. How would you like it if I stole your home away from you and told everyone you were gonna steal mine first so I had to attack yours and take it for myself, first? I was stronger than you, surely I deserve to keep your home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Makes me one...what? Makes me less of an idiot? You can't even play the "I'm rubber, you're glue" card without !@#$ing it up. Do you EVER think before you type? most people would follow this, but in your case to be clear not being able to respond to specific allegations regarding the costs of US support for Israel makes you an idiot (among other things, none of them flattering) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) Oh boy. Yes we lost, but we didn't start that war. How would you like it if I stole your home away from you and told everyone you were gonna steal mine first so I had to attack yours and take it for myself, first? I was stronger than you, surely I deserve to keep your home. Yep. That's how war works. See the US. See East Germany. See Poland. See Vietnam. See Texas. And it's easy to be okay with it as an observer or on the winning-side. Winners win and losers lose. That's the way it works. Like I said, you want public opinion to shame Israel for their attacks and expansionism? Stop fighting. Stop giving them reasons. That's how you'll expose their "evil." It's in your hands. Edited July 12, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) @firechan Here it is. Post #48 I want what most want here. Either a genuine two state solution going back to pre '67 borders with no settlements or one Israeli state with equal rights to all. Oh yeah, btw, let that second part sink in a bit. Many people I spoke to don't mind a one state solution with equal rights to all even if that one state is called Israel. Amazing, huh? You don't hear that on TV! I was actually surprised to hear those words myself. Edited July 12, 2014 by NoJustice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) Yep. That's how war works. See the US. See East Germany. See Poland. See Vietnam. See Texas. forget "might makes right", why do we support them? Why is it in our interests given the immense costs? @firechan Here it is. Post #48 I want what most want here. Either a genuine two state solution going back to pre '67 borders with no settlements or one Israeli state with equal rights to all. 2-state is done, no way all the settlers can be moved back. You have to go for option 2, which is better anyway since you'll have equal access to all the land. Edited July 12, 2014 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) @firechan Here it is. Post #48 I want what most want here. Either a genuine two state solution going back to pre '67 borders with no settlements or one Israeli state with equal rights to all. Oh yeah, btw, let that second part sink in a bit. Many people I spoke to don't mind a one state solution with equal rights to all even if that one state is called Israel. Amazing, huh? You don't hear that on TV! I was actually surprised to hear those words myself. Is that what the guys who fire rockets want? forget "might makes right", why do we support them? Why is it in our interests given the immense costs? Do you think the US is supporting Israel for no reason? I won't pretend to be an expert of the idiosyncrasies of the US involvement of the Middle East. I wasn't really focused on the issues in the First Gulf War, nor the issues surrounding the Iraq war or the involvement in Palestine/Israel. Still, I highly doubt there is no percieved benefit that the US government believes they are attaining over there. I doubt it's purely a moral involvement. You want to give me a list of reasons that we aren't there for, go for it. But I bet my life there's a reason we are, corrupt and self-serving as it might be. Edited July 12, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted July 12, 2014 Author Share Posted July 12, 2014 It's 6am here and I haven't slept yet. Good night to all, except TYTT. He's an evil bastard. Is that what the guys who fire rockets want? Do you think the US is supporting Israel for no reason? Gotta answer this one before I go. Ummmm.....NO! Of course not, but !@#$ what they want. Those dumb !@#$s allow Israel to get away with all kinds of ****. I don't give two craps what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 It's 6am here and I haven't slept yet. Good night to all, except TYTT. He's an evil bastard. Gotta answer this one before I go. Ummmm.....NO! Of course not, but !@#$ what they want. Those dumb !@#$s allow Israel to get away with all kinds of ****. I don't give two craps what they want. That's my point. They're your representatives to the global stage. Good luck over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 most people would follow this, but in your case to be clear not being able to respond to specific allegations regarding the costs of US support for Israel makes you an idiot (among other things, none of them flattering) Ever consider the opportunity cost of what it would cost to have more US military and intelligence in the region if Israel didn't provide it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 It's 6am here and I haven't slept yet. Good night to all, except TYTT. He's an evil bastard. ALOL... I'll be resting easy in my hollowed-out volcano lair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Ever consider the opportunity cost of what it would cost to have more US military and intelligence in the region if Israel didn't provide it? Laisse faire. Un cas perdu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 ALOL... I'll be resting easy in my hollowed-out volcano lair. have fun in that trailer of yours, and keep the guns next to your cot. It's not like there's anything worth stealing in there, but if guns are your teddy bear go for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 have fun in that trailer of yours, and keep the guns next to your cot. It's not like there's anything worth stealing in there, but if guns are your teddy bear go for it The Glock is in my night stand, but I don't think I'll need it. The moat full of sharks with laser beams strapped to their heads is usually sufficient to keep out any trespassers or Palestinian suicide bombers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 Is that what the guys who fire rockets want? Do you think the US is supporting Israel for no reason? I won't pretend to be an expert of the idiosyncrasies of the US involvement of the Middle East. I wasn't really focused on the issues in the First Gulf War, nor the issues surrounding the Iraq war or the involvement in Palestine/Israel. Still, I highly doubt there is no percieved benefit that the US government believes they are attaining over there. I doubt it's purely a moral involvement. You want to give me a list of reasons that we aren't there for, go for it. But I bet my life there's a reason we are, corrupt and self-serving as it might be. thats quite an admission for someone who supports them, but shockingly you're not alone. Good lord what's happened to this country and it's bizarre support for that s#&@ty apartheid state Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted July 12, 2014 Share Posted July 12, 2014 (edited) thats quite an admission for someone who supports them, but shockingly you're not alone. Good lord what's happened to this country and it's bizarre support for that s#&@ty apartheid state Someone who supports what? US involvement in Palestine? Are you joking? I don't support it at all. You threw around these negatives acting like they don't have reasons to be there. I corrected you. I never have supported the Middle East ventures at face-value. Just because the US is there for its own reasons doesn't mean they don't benefit me. It doesn't mean they don't harm me. But there are reasons. What's really happening in this country is dumb chits like you take my support on a issue between two Non-US nations or cultures or whatever and paint me with a brush. That's what's wrong with this country. You assume I want Middle East support. This isn't generalities, or even stereotypes. Those are unrelated opinions that you jam together and label as "them" instead of "us." It's patently retarded. You know, at first, I didn't really see why 90% of PPP calls posters like you an idiot all the time. Now I get it. I bet you chafe when you take a stance on something and someone calls you a communist or a hippie or a gay-lover or says you want a nanny-state. Or when you take another stance and they call you a gun-nut or a redneck or a bible-thumping mongoloid. I bet it bothers you. And you're so quick to do the same. It's funny really. This whole time I've been pointing out the hypocrisy of judging Israel from your Ivory Tower and you go ahead and show me some more. It's a hamper to discussion and further produces stupid as !@#$ dividing lines. Edited July 12, 2014 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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