I see its us having to put a middle finger to the world again

[Cynical]

@ BillsVet and your last post: if we accept your interpretation of what transpired last year, then going into this season the Bills added a QB coach, a highly regarded offensive assistant, upgraded several OL spots, and have continuity in three QBs who had a full season under Hackett's system. They also added playmakers in Watkins, Williams, and Brown, plus Moeaki is healthy. They are infinitely more prepared and talented (on offense) than they were going into 2013.

 

Defensively, the losses of Byrd and Kiko look significant, but trading Pettine for Schwartz could very well be an even swap and the players themselves have said learning a "new system" is not a big deal. The LB corps (a glaring weakness last season) have been drastically altered, even with Kiko out. The secondary looks deeper and more talented/experienced at 4 of 5 spots. Dareus won't be suspended for more than four games, and the line is fantastic.

 

On special teams, the whipping boy (Crossman) is still there but significant veteran additions were made to improve the talent on those units (Dixon, Graham).

 

How does one look at this, objectively, and not come away believing the team is (on paper) better than the one that was a whisker away from a winning record a year ago? I didn't even mention that Marrone is also no longer a rookie.

 

Are my comments those of a homer? I think they're pretty level-headed.

 

Possibly.

Crossman has a history of producing bad ST. What makes you think a couple of players will all of a sudden fix that deficiency?

 

QB's: There were question marks going into the start of last season about this group. By the end of the year, the only question that was answered was that EJ has the highest potential.

Beyond that, question marks still remain.

 

Continuity is only valid if the situation is good. Continuing in a bad situation is still bad.

IMHO, Hackett was part of the problem last year. He still remains a question mark.

 

Despite no longer being a rookie, Marrone still has question marks surrounding him after making numerous questionable decisions last year.

The biggest being running an uptempo no huddle attack with a rookie OC, a rookie QB, and 2 rookie WR.

 

Watkins: The homers have already classified him as a significant upgrade and play maker. Over who? Watkins hasn't played a single down yet in the NFL.

It is possible Watkins could be "that guy" from day one, but it is not very probable. Even Megatron and J. Jones took a year or two to develop.

Watkins will become a great player, in a year or two. Just probably not this year, even "on paper".

[Dorkington]

When a team is the biggest embarrassment to the NFL, it's pretty easy to make sour predictions.

 

Why should we get the benefit of the doubt?

[John from Riverside]

When a team is the biggest embarrassment to the NFL, it's pretty easy to make sour predictions.

 

Why should we get the benefit of the doubt?

 

And I agree with this.....lets make the playoffs and see if the attitude doesnt change a bit

[firemedic]

Playoffs!

 

I read an article, I think it was that Yahoo one, which said the Bills trading up for Sammy was a bad move because the Bills are a bad team that needs more than 1 good player. They then went on to point out how we lost 2 overtime games last year (not to mention the Pats by a last second FG) and how we really could have been 8-8 or 9-7. If you are asking me, we should have beat the Chiefs too, so yea, 10-6 with a rookie starting QB that was injured half the year. Doesn't sound like a bad team to me. They went on to rank us 27th out of 32 teams. They were talking out of both sides of their mouth and it didn't make any sense. Typical media bs written by a "sports writer" who never watched any of our games, only saw the highlights and final score. But that's fine, I like being the underdog. I want the team and the fans to stay hungry. With all that has been going on with this team, how sweet would it be to stick it to these so called "experts" and make a playoff run or *gasp* win the division?

 

So ready for the season to start!

Prolly would have got the Browns too if EJ wasn't hurt............11-5

[eball]

@ Cynical -- is there really no value whatsoever in a year (actually 16+ months by the time the season begins) of learning experience -- for EJ, Marrone, Hackett, etc., etc., etc.? You say Hackett was the problem, but don't address the two new coaches brought in to ease his load.

 

You certainly live up to your moniker, my friend.

 

All I'm suggesting is that predictions the Bills will be worse this year than last don't seem to include much logical thought.

[CountryCletus]

 

 

Possibly.

Crossman has a history of producing bad ST. What makes you think a couple of players will all of a sudden fix that deficiency?

 

QB's: There were question marks going into the start of last season about this group. By the end of the year, the only question that was answered was that EJ has the highest potential.

Beyond that, question marks still remain.

 

Continuity is only valid if the situation is good. Continuing in a bad situation is still bad.

IMHO, Hackett was part of the problem last year. He still remains a question mark.

 

Despite no longer being a rookie, Marrone still has question marks surrounding him after making numerous questionable decisions last year.

The biggest being running an uptempo no huddle attack with a rookie OC, a rookie QB, and 2 rookie WR.

 

Watkins: The homers have already classified him as a significant upgrade and play maker. Over who? Watkins hasn't played a single down yet in the NFL.

It is possible Watkins could be "that guy" from day one, but it is not very probable. Even Megatron and J. Jones took a year or two to develop.

Watkins will become a great player, in a year or two. Just probably not this year, even "on paper".

 

Using your logic, Stating that Watkins will become a great player in a year or two is just as insane as saying that he isn't an upgrade over anyone since he hasn't played a down in the nfl...

[firemedic]

And what gets me about that KC game is it took TWO Defensive TD's to win it for them. These media types are full of ****.

Right you are............not to mention we rolled 500 yards on a top 5 defense that day......

[Homey D. Clown]

Were their any games the Bills Won, that they could of/should of lost if not but for a few plays?

 

Nothing personal, but what are you saying here?(highlighted in red)

[Cynical]

you apparently put words I to my mouth. Of at least misinderstood me.

 

The whole paint was that we were close in quite a few games last year. One play could have made those games go the other way. We didn't capitalize on those opportunities at the time.

 

You have missed my point. This can said about any team during any close game at any point in the game. We both made assumptions about the same game.

Assumptions in regard to game outcomes are meaningless. Good or bad. So, no, the Bills were not a team that could have been 9-7 or 10-6.

 

Lets take a closer look at the Jets lost.

Everybody wants to blame Rogers. Did he have a good game? No he did not. Neither did some of the other players.

The Bills offense that game was marginal.

• Third down efficiency: 22%
  
• Fourth down efficiency: 0%
  
• Red Zone efficiency: 0% *
  
• Goal to Go efficiency: 0% *
  
• EJ 's completion rate: 45%
  

* Disclosure: efficiency based on scoring TDs from that point. The Bills made 3 trips into the Jets red zone and walked away with 3 FG.

Think about that. 3 trips into the red zone, ZERO TDs.

Rogers did not lose that game, the team lost that game.

 

Sucks. Hopefully we can find a way to take the next step next season. If we do, we are a winning football team.

 

Agreed. Looking forward to seeing the young players develop.

 

fyi the plan was to have Kolb start at QB and have EJ back him up until Kolb was injured. Prove that it wasn't the case.

 

It was the case. But what idiot bets the season on a QB that is one concussion away from retirement?

[Buftex]

Dr Darius... We must be reading/hearing different thing in regards to the Kiko injury. Pretty much every analyst, on a national level, framed their disscusion of the injury with a comment to the effect of "I had high hopes for the Bills, but this injury tempers my outlook on the Bills..." You really haven't heard any of this?

[BuffaloBill]

 

 

Let them talk their **** now. Then, hopefully, eat their words later.

 

Exactly - the franchise has to earn their way out of the toilet. 14 years of futility gives nobody other than us diehard fans reasons to look at the half full glass. At the end of the day if EJ does not take a big step forward 2014 will be wash, rinse repeat of the past 14 seasons. This team has gone all in with EJ by not selecting a QB this year and giving the chance to draft a higher probability prospect next year.

 

 

[BillsVet]

fyi the plan was to have Kolb start at QB and have EJ back him up until Kolb was injured. Prove that it wasn't the case.

 

The old appeal to ignorance argument. Classic TBD tactic. BTW, how many NFL teams drafted a QB in the first round since 2009 and then subsequently sat him his rookie season? It's not like they were paying Kolb starter money...he was on a 2 year deal for something like 6.1M total. That's backup money.

 

This narrative of Kolb to be the starter was echoed early last season only after Manuel struggled and Lewis (later Tuel) had to play. Kolb was brought in to start? Well, let's say he was and Manuel, their first round pick was going to backup. What team in a 2013 NFL world really signs Kevin Kolb to start? This was a guy who'd been a starter for 2 teams from 2010-2012 and didn't finish one of those seasons and managed to start all of 19 games during that time.

 

So, either the Bills signed Kolb to backup EJ or they were delusional to sign him as a starter and expect him to play a significant amount of time. It's decisions like this that have produced 22 wins in 4 seasons.

[John from Riverside]

The old appeal to ignorance argument. Classic TBD tactic. BTW, how many NFL teams drafted a QB in the first round since 2009 and then subsequently sat him his rookie season? It's not like they were paying Kolb starter money...he was on a 2 year deal for something like 6.1M total. That's backup money.

 

This narrative of Kolb to be the starter was echoed early last season only after Manuel struggled and Lewis (later Tuel) had to play. Kolb was brought in to start? Well, let's say he was and Manuel, their first round pick was going to backup. What team in a 2013 NFL world really signs Kevin Kolb to start? This was a guy who'd been a starter for 2 teams from 2010-2012 and didn't finish one of those seasons and managed to start all of 19 games during that time.

 

So, either the Bills signed Kolb to backup EJ or they were delusional to sign him as a starter and expect him to play a significant amount of time. It's decisions like this that have produced 22 wins in 4 seasons.

 

Why are you here? Simple question.

[eball]

The old appeal to ignorance argument. Classic TBD tactic. BTW, how many NFL teams drafted a QB in the first round since 2009 and then subsequently sat him his rookie season? It's not like they were paying Kolb starter money...he was on a 2 year deal for something like 6.1M total. That's backup money.

 

This narrative of Kolb to be the starter was echoed early last season only after Manuel struggled and Lewis (later Tuel) had to play. Kolb was brought in to start? Well, let's say he was and Manuel, their first round pick was going to backup. What team in a 2013 NFL world really signs Kevin Kolb to start? This was a guy who'd been a starter for 2 teams from 2010-2012 and didn't finish one of those seasons and managed to start all of 19 games during that time.

 

So, either the Bills signed Kolb to backup EJ or they were delusional to sign him as a starter and expect him to play a significant amount of time. It's decisions like this that have produced 22 wins in 4 seasons.

 

Isn't the point of this thread to discuss why the media would have the Bills pegged to be a worse team this year than they were last year? You keep harping upon the horrible decisions and planning that left the QB situation in shambles last year, but haven't yet addressed my (I thought) reasonable suggestions that the team heading into 2014 is in a much better situation, all the way around.

[CountryCletus]

 

 

Isn't the point of this thread to discuss why the media would have the Bills pegged to be a worse team this year than they were last year? You keep harping upon the horrible decisions and planning that left the QB situation in shambles last year, but haven't yet addressed my (I thought) reasonable suggestions that the team heading into 2014 is in a much better situation, all the way around.

 

Allow me to address your reasonable suggestions...

 

 

You are 100% spot on... You have people who prefer to dwell on personnel losses, those that prefer to dwell on key additions, and then people that try and see the who picture...

 

In short- my whole picture outlook is that this team is several steps ahead of where they were this time last year...

[BillsVet]

Why are you here? Simple question.

 

Because I'd like to see honest and open debate about this football team. And as the years have passed that's become an endangered species, replaced with those who rarely, if ever, question the team. Worse, a clear intolerance has developed of those who have a contrarian opinion and back it up with data.

 

I'm not sold on EJ. I'm not sold on this coaching staff. And for the media to express doubt is not altogether outrageous. It's been said here for years: Winning answers questions and the Bills haven't done that. And every year we see people who get excited only to be left disappointed. I'll temper my expectations based on the questions I have of this team and their decisions.

[eball]

Because I'd like to see honest and open debate about this football team. And as the years have passed that's become an endangered species, replaced with those who rarely, if ever, question the team. Worse, a clear intolerance has developed of those who have a contrarian opinion and back it up with data.

 

I'm not sold on EJ. I'm not sold on this coaching staff. And for the media to express doubt is not altogether outrageous. It's been said here for years: Winning answers questions and the Bills haven't done that. And every year we see people who get excited only to be left disappointed. I'll temper my expectations based on the questions I have of this team and their decisions.

 

That is a joke. You were given exactly that opportunity with my post on the previous page, and your response speaks volumes.

[BillnutinHouston]

Expectations aren't as high outside of the fan base. The media sees a 6-10 team that lost their best DB and now a starting LB this off-season from a unit that struggled in 2013. On offense, there are some additions, but once again they're banking on youth (EJ, Watkins, Woods, Kouandjio). Not to mention they've got a new defensive scheme, the new DC, and new offensive coaches there to "assist" Hackett.

 

Are the Bills better than the 6-10 team they were last year? And, are the other AFC East teams better, the same, or not? Tempering expectations seems to be appropriate.

 

This. Speaking logically and not as a fan, being angry in advance of winning is really not justifiable. AFTER we start winning, then we can raise our fingers - our index fingers.

 

[Clippers of Nfl]

My girlfriend nick named both of mine. I give her the finger all the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mods, sorry it was right there, couldn't resist.

What are the nicknames?

 

 

 

 

Mods, sorry I couldnt resist.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Jk. Please dont send me the nick names. That's between you, your fingers, and your girlfriend.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Clippers of Nfl

[Kellyto83TD]

Allow me to address your reasonable suggestions...

 

 

You are 100% spot on... You have people who prefer to dwell on personnel losses, those that prefer to dwell on key additions, and then people that try and see the who picture...

 

In short- my whole picture outlook is that this team is several steps ahead of where they were this time last year...

 

Yes where they were last year at THIS time. We didn't have Kiko nor know how he would turn out. I feel his loss will be HUGE if Brown doesn't step up and put up a Kiko like performance on the outside. We had Byrd for a chunk of the season and will have him for none of it this year. We dont' know still how the NFL will handle Dareus.

 

I'll just say it again, losing Kiko is huge, and if EJ doesn't step up big time and start performing like a Collin K, Russell Wilson, etc then we are screwed AND its time to move on from him. Too many young QB's doing well by the end of year 2 now.