The Big Cat Posted July 9, 2014 Posted July 9, 2014 oh. Ok. Were still cool then. Let's stay friends. Lol Ha...of course
BuffaloBill Posted July 9, 2014 Posted July 9, 2014 Development in the loop continues... This will be about 250 yards from the condo we sold. This is becoming a very congested residential area. One more major lot for development in Lakeshore East with what will be unbelievable lake views. http://www.chicagoarchitecture.org/2014/07/08/supertall-skyscraper-planned-along-chicago-river-at-lakeshore-east/
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Chicago will always be Chicago, it will always live up to its history. What's the first thing people would think of when Chicago was mentioned? Before Michael Jordan or even (gasp) Sammy Sosa... It was: "Chicago bang bang! Al Capone." Once again, like the poster said above, only hope is the Polar Vortex... It's always the hot, summer nights. Guns and violence is easy to spill across city and state borders. Guns will flow in from places like Indiana that share a border with the City and Suburbs and have lax regulation... I mentioned same with stuff like fireworks... Yet, you can't buy booze on Sundays in Indiana... That's what Illinois is for. Where was Dillinger caught? Crown Point, Indiana... Crooks/gangs know if you want to avoid taxes and laws, set up on a border. And nice easy land border @ that. Sure New York is a big city... But there are natural boundaries. Anyway, sorry Beer, this has been discussed in song 40 years ago. Way better lyrics: "Daddy was a cop On the east side of Chicago Back in the U S A Back in the bad old days In the heat of a summer night In the land of the dollar bill When the town of Chicago died And they talk about it still When a man named Al Capone Tried to make that town his own And he called his gang to war Against the forces of the law I heard my mama cry I heard her pray the night Chicago died Brother what a night it really was Brother what a fight it really was, glory be I heard my mama cry I heard her pray the night Chicago died Brother what a night the people saw Brother what a fight the people saw, yes indeed And the sound of the battle rang Through the streets of the old east side 'Til the last of the hoodlum gang Had surrendered up or died There was shouting in the street And the sound of running feet And I asked someone who said 'Bout a hundred cops are dead I heard my mama cry I heard her pray the night Chicago died Brother what a night it really was Brother what a fight it really was, glory be I heard my mama cry I heard her pray the night Chicago died Brother what a night the people saw Brother what a fight the people saw, yes indeed Then there was no sound at all But the clock upon the wall Then the door burst open wide And my daddy stepped inside And he kissed my mama's face And he brushed her tears away The night Chicago died The night Chicago died Brother what a night the people saw Brother what a fight the people saw, yes indeed The night Chicago died The night Chicago died Brother what a night it really was Brother what a fight it really was, glory be Its like everything else... The wars have turned asymmetrical. Nothing is as easy as it was in Capone's day with dealing with the gangs. It simply is not cut and dry anymore.
The Big Cat Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Chicago will always be Chicago, it will always live up to its history. What's the first thing people would think of when Chicago was mentioned? Before Michael Jordan or even (gasp) Sammy Sosa... It was: "Chicago bang bang! Al Capone." Once again, like the poster said above, only hope is the Polar Vortex... It's always the hot, summer nights. Guns and violence is easy to spill across city and state borders. Guns will flow in from places like Indiana that share a border with the City and Suburbs and have lax regulation... I mentioned same with stuff like fireworks... Yet, you can't buy booze on Sundays in Indiana... That's what Illinois is for. Where was Dillinger caught? Crown Point, Indiana... Crooks/gangs know if you want to avoid taxes and laws, set up on a border. And nice easy land border @ that. Sure New York is a big city... But there are natural boundaries. Its like everything else... The wars have turned asymmetrical. Nothing is as easy as it was in Capone's day with dealing with the gangs. It simply is not cut and dry anymore. To the latter: my point exactly. To the former: but where was Dillinger shot? Under the marquee of the Biograph theater...which is? You guessed it: directly across the street from The Bills Backers Bar.
BuffaloBill Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 To the latter: my point exactly. To save space Idid not pull in EII's comments but the key question I would ask both of you is why the acceptance, if not resignation to the notion that Chicago has always been violent and therefore will be forever beholden to this legacy? Take a step back and recognize that Chicago is not only violent but has an absurdly high level of violence within its metropolitan area. If people simply accept this as the continuation of a legacy then the self fulfilling prophecy of the cycle follows through. It's crazy that such a beautiful city that has pockets of economic success can't come to better solutions. Not saying that I have them but as a start the leadership of city should be more visible and forceful in calling the situation for what it is.
mrags Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Not saying that I have them but as a start the leadership of city should be more visible and forceful in calling the situation for what it is. this is the key in your entire post. The answer... The situation is out of control. That's what I was trying to say. People don't realize how much the gangs and crime run their cities. The first step in fixing the problem is realizing that you have one. Most are naive to it and either don't think there is one or don't know how to fix it. Honestly, there is no fixing it. It's too late. We waged a war on organized crime and they were keeping this at bay for years. Now there's no organized crime to monitor. Just my opinion.
The Big Cat Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) To save space Idid not pull in EII's comments but the key question I would ask both of you is why the acceptance, if not resignation to the notion that Chicago has always been violent and therefore will be forever beholden to this legacy? Take a step back and recognize that Chicago is not only violent but has an absurdly high level of violence within its metropolitan area. If people simply accept this as the continuation of a legacy then the self fulfilling prophecy of the cycle follows through. It's crazy that such a beautiful city that has pockets of economic success can't come to better solutions. Not saying that I have them but as a start the leadership of city should be more visible and forceful in calling the situation for what it is. But what can leadership do? Obviously our strict gun laws aren't doing much to put a dent in the problem. Are we supposed to have tanks patrolling our streets? Should Emanuel turn Chicago into the next East St. Louis by accepting Quinn's staties? I was just having this conversation this morning with our director of constituent services. It's really up to the communities to solve these problems. Don't want to wrap it up? Fine. Want to have five kids before you're 25 with a sixth one on the way (as was the case with the young woman gunned down yesterday morning)? Fine. But the community--the extended family, the neighbors, the folks you share a pew with at church--they've got to step in and keep these kids from growing up to be the cold-blooded, armed to the teeth monsters that are running wild and wreaking havoc in the neighborhoods. If we're going to be lax on the responsibilities involved with bringing another human into this world, then someone has to pick up the slack, and sorry, but that someone is not Rahm Emanuel. And if no one nearby cares to pick up the slack, then it's high time we do something (what I'm not sure) about changing the culture of reproduction in communities of need. To your point about history: I would say that Chicago's violent history is no different than any major city's. Unfortunately, the lack of social safety nets (want to have that conversation?) has let some of areas of this city devolve into chaos. It's pure, unfettered chaos. The compliance you speak of is not at the city level, it's in the communities. And they're getting fed up too. this is the key in your entire post. The answer... The situation is out of control. That's what I was trying to say. People don't realize how much the gangs and crime run their cities. The first step in fixing the problem is realizing that you have one. Most are naive to it and either don't think there is one or don't know how to fix it. Honestly, there is no fixing it. It's too late. We waged a war on organized crime and they were keeping this at bay for years. Now there's no organized crime to monitor. Just my opinion. I still hesitate to call what we have here "organized." Of course that exists here, but it's just a piece of a much larger puzzle. Edited July 10, 2014 by The Big Cat
BuffaloBill Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 But what can leadership do? Obviously our strict gun laws aren't doing much to put a dent in the problem. Are we supposed to have tanks patrolling our streets? Should Emanuel turn Chicago into the next East St. Louis by accepting Quinn's staties? How about Emanuel starting with the one thing that is in his control which is to take the pulpit of his position and communicate with the communities that you later refer to. He should openly admit that the situation is out of control, that the government can or is willing to only do so much and that it is up to them to be a part of the solution. Follow that up with a plan of what the city can do within its resources to address the situation. IMO he needs to be more visible and consistently proactive in being a voice about the problem I do agree with you that he alone nor the government can solve the problems. However, being largely reactionary in his communications suggests that he is willing to simply be powerless relative to the solutions. I was just having this conversation this morning with our director of constituent services. It's really up to the communities to solve these problems. Don't want to wrap it up? Fine. Want to have five kids before you're 25 with a sixth one on the way (as was the case with the young woman gunned down yesterday morning)? Fine. But the community--the extended family, the neighbors, the folks you share a pew with at church--they've got to step in and keep these kids from growing up to be the cold-blooded, armed to the teeth monsters that are running wild and wreaking havoc in the neighborhoods. If we're going to be lax on the responsibilities involved with bringing another human into this world, then someone has to pick up the slack, and sorry, but that someone is not Rahm Emanuel. And if no one nearby cares to pick up the slack, then it's high time we do something (what I'm not sure) about changing the culture of reproduction in communities of need. Are you really going on record here claiming that it is the reproductive habits of a woman or women in general that is at issue? At least call out the father(s) if this is the path that you wish to follow. Last I checked it takes a combination of an egg and sperm to create a child. With that aside, I agree that it is not the governments place to deal with people's reproductive choices. However, leaving large segments of the city in what amounts to islands of long-term economic despair is at least in-part due to how the city elects to handle economic development, education and infrastructure. It is no secret in Chicago that fiefdoms exist and there may well be continuing corruption among elected officials. Your mayor can't falsely accuse anyone of wrongdoing but he can at least acknowledge that the history of such conditions has had an impact and there is zero tolerance for them going forward. He can take it a step further by suggesting and enacting ways to overcome the legacy. To your point about history: I would say that Chicago's violent history is no different than any major city's. Where you are wrong here is that Chicago's history is more extreme than many and there is a persistent resignation to the idea that it will simply carry forward in time. Unfortunately, the lack of social safety nets (want to have that conversation?) has let some of areas of this city devolve into chaos. It's pure, unfettered chaos. The mere fact that you acknowledge the reality that there are these pockets of chaos is in and of itself pretty sad. Once again it implies victim mentality. Your saying the city, its citizens, its leaders and its institutions are powerless to deal with the issues. This is a troubling statement. Again, I agree with you that no one person, group, institution or government will solve the problems. Though if there is this collective "oh well" then the city is condemned to the cancer that is gutting it. The compliance you speak of is not at the city level, it's in the communities. And they're getting fed up too. I still hesitate to call what we have here "organized." Of course that exists here, but it's just a piece of a much larger puzzle.
mrags Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 I still hesitate to call what we have here "organized." Of course that exists here, but it's just a piece of a much larger puzzle. what you have there is not "organized" crime. It's "gangs". There's a difference. Organized crime should be saved for conversations involving the Italian mafia, and things of those sorts. Gangs are completely different.
Gugny Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Are the Crips and Bloods considered organized crime? They are nationwide syndicates with more of a reach than, say, the Gambino Family ever had. I'm asking because I don't know; not to be a dick.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 Are the Crips and Bloods considered organized crime? They are nationwide syndicates with more of a reach than, say, the Gambino Family ever had. I'm asking because I don't know; not to be a dick. I can't see why they wouldn't be considered "organized crime." They both have organized leadership structures/hierarchies, and both participate in organized business endevours (both legal and illegal). Much the same as "gangs" like the Gambino and Bonanno Mafia crime families. Am I wrong?
The Big Cat Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 I How about Emanuel starting with the one thing that is in his control which is to take the pulpit of his position and communicate with the communities that you later refer to. He should openly admit that the situation is out of control, that the government can or is willing to only do so much and that it is up to them to be a part of the solution. Follow that up with a plan of what the city can do within its resources to address the situation. IMO he needs to be more visible and consistently proactive in being a voice about the problem I do agree with you that he alone nor the government can solve the problems. However, being largely reactionary in his communications suggests that he is willing to simply be powerless relative to the solutions. II Are you really going on record here claiming that it is the reproductive habits of a woman or women in general that is at issue? At least call out the father(s) if this is the path that you wish to follow. Last I checked it takes a combination of an egg and sperm to create a child. With that aside, I agree that it is not the governments place to deal with people's reproductive choices. However, leaving large segments of the city in what amounts to islands of long-term economic despair is at least in-part due to how the city elects to handle economic development, education and infrastructure. It is no secret in Chicago that fiefdoms exist and there may well be continuing corruption among elected officials. Your mayor can't falsely accuse anyone of wrongdoing but he can at least acknowledge that the history of such conditions has had an impact and there is zero tolerance for them going forward. He can take it a step further by suggesting and enacting ways to overcome the legacy. Where you are wrong here is that Chicago's history is more extreme than many and there is a persistent resignation to the idea that it will simply carry forward in time. III The mere fact that you acknowledge the fact that there are these pockets of chaos is in and of itself pretty sad. Once again it implies victim mentality. Your saying the city, its citizens, its leaders and its institutions are powerless to deal with the issues. This is a sad statement. Again, I agree with you that no one person, group, institution or government will solve the problems. Though if there is this collective "oh well" then the city is condemned to the cancer that is gutting it. I It's a testament to the political climate that the mayor isn't making gun violence his banner issue, particularly six months from re-election. As far as optics go, it's a fight he can't win because the issue won't ever be eradicated any time soon. So why get in front of cameras when every effort you appear to be making is rendered a failure each time someone catches a bullet? But given that we agree the primary solutions exist at the grassroots level, I'm not even sure what level of public resources could be adequately spread around the City to address the chaos effectively, anyways. So it's a lose lose for him. I can, however, say that certain soft-initiatives like a Whole Foods in Englewood will have an impact on the community's prosperity, as will the recently recommended hike in the local minimum wage with exemptions for youth employment. II In no way shape or form did I intend to single out women. I understand that the example I gave was about a woman, but I was speaking to the family structure, in general. Which, by and large, hasn't changed much over the last few decades, but that doesn't mean its unraveling is not a catalyst to these issues. Sadly, the idea that communities prosper when families stay in tact is a GOP chorus that gets lost in some of their other gobbledygook like abstinence education, etc. In fact, among the African American community, there's a fear that what's broadly, and accurately referred to as 'population control' is code for 'eugenics.' So, what is an otherwise important message gets lost. III There are so many other ways to frame issues of class and racial friction as being rooted in a 'victim' mentality, but this is not one of them. And there's nobody in these communities, in City Hall or on the Fifth Floor letting this issues wash over them, shrugging their shoulders saying 'whatcha gonna do?' And the admission of powerlessness is hardly a surrender. It is, however, why we hold elections every four years, and I can assure you some of the leaders in these hot spot areas are shopping their resumes as we speak. These problems are so deeply systemic, that it should come as no surprise to you that the 10% of residents who did show up to vote in these neighborhooods, picked a person who falls woefully short of having what it takes to right the ship, Again, this isn't rationale to give up on finding a solution, I'm just relaying the reality of what these areas face. I'm not suggesting they can't be more civically engaged, I'm simply pointing out that they are not. And you don't have to take many steps down the line before that translates to people getting shot at. I can't see why they wouldn't be considered "organized crime." They both have organized leadership structures/hierarchies, and both participate in organized business endevours (both legal and illegal). Much the same as "gangs" like the Gambino and Bonanno Mafia crime families. Am I wrong? I would agree.
Gugny Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 I would agree. You agree with him?? I !@#$ing said it first. What the !@#$??
The Big Cat Posted July 10, 2014 Posted July 10, 2014 You agree with him?? I !@#$ing said it first. What the !@#$?? Yeah, but in spite of your best effort, you were a dick about it.
Beerball Posted July 21, 2014 Author Posted July 21, 2014 38 by my count. http://voices.suntimes.com/news/breaking-news/chicago-shootings-tracker-for-july-18-20-2014/
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 38 by my count. http://voices.suntimes.com/news/breaking-news/chicago-shootings-tracker-for-july-18-20-2014/ Just think if guns were legal... All out war.
mrags Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Just think if guns were legal... All out war. im staying out of it this time.
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 im staying out of it this time. Yeah, maybe I should too... Seems like a trap Beerball is setting up. How else is one suppose to respond and be critical? This discussion is fraught with landmines. It is worse than walking through the projects by my work.
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