K-9 Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Coming out of college, Broadway Joe's stats as a passer were at best ordinary (I'm being kind). He did not "own{ed} that team and hoisted it on his shoulders" "the moment Namath walked into his first NFL locker room". He spilt the job with Mike Taliaferro (neither guy could complete 50% of their passes). Namath was starter by the second half of the season. He won 3 of 9 games overall. QB in every sense of the word? Maybe, but I bet Namath called maybe 10 different pass plays his entire career. There can be no comparison to the complexity of modern college or NFL passing games, so mentioning a guy in the mid 1960's calling his onw plays isn't an argument winner. Here are some more JM/JN comparisons that are appropriate: Namath was drafted in the first round in both the AFL and the NFL. He went with the big money (if there were cell phone cameras we would probably have seen him rubbing his thumbs and forefingers together at that time...)--the biggest money ever offered a pro player, in fact. He was on the cover of SI before he started rookie camp under the title "Football Goes Showbiz". Rather than divest in his cheesy "Bachelor III" restaurant (at the command of Rozelle), he quit football. He came crawling back soon after. He again looked to quit the NFL to join the World Football League, and seems that he would have if they had agreed to his demand for a cut of the league's revenue. The comparisons to Namath are a lot more legit than you seem to think. As above, his talent as a passer was limited. Had he not won that SB III, he would never be in the HOF. As I said, I understand why the comparisons are made. I also understand both were hyped by the media. In terms of being a quarterback, the comparisons are invalid, imo. As are any comparisons between an era where QBs called their own plays, including running plays, so I'm not sure why you only felt the need to mention Namath only called 10 passing plays VS. an era where QBs are spoon-fed the game piece-meal by specialized coordinators, etc. We can disagree on his merits for the HOF. He called a masterful game vs. the Colts in the SB, but he gave fits to defenses far more often than not until injuries curtailed his career. He very much owned that team going into his rookie year, regardless of Weeb Ewbank's decision to break him in slowly as he was still rehabbing his knee injury. Vets on that team were clamoring for him to start as they knew he was so much more talented. I'd be surprised if any vets will be clamoring for Manziel to start over Hoyer. GO BILLS!!!
Mr. WEO Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 As I said, I understand why the comparisons are made. I also understand both were hyped by the media. In terms of being a quarterback, the comparisons are invalid, imo. As are any comparisons between an era where QBs called their own plays, including running plays, so I'm not sure why you only felt the need to mention Namath only called 10 passing plays VS. an era where QBs are spoon-fed the game piece-meal by specialized coordinators, etc. We can disagree on his merits for the HOF. He called a masterful game vs. the Colts in the SB, but he gave fits to defenses far more often than not until injuries curtailed his career. He very much owned that team going into his rookie year, regardless of Weeb Ewbank's decision to break him in slowly as he was still rehabbing his knee injury. Vets on that team were clamoring for him to start as they knew he was so much more talented. I'd be surprised if any vets will be clamoring for Manziel to start over Hoyer. GO BILLS!!! You brought up the play calling, so you are making the comaprison, which we both agree is meaningless, so... It was a lot easier to give fits to defenses back then, hence the complexity of the offense is at least several orders of magnitude more complex now. I assume you're joking about the vets on that Browns team clamoring for....Brian Hoyer, a 2 game wonder.
K-9 Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 You brought up the play calling, so you are making the comaprison, which we both agree is meaningless, so... It was a lot easier to give fits to defenses back then, hence the complexity of the offense is at least several orders of magnitude more complex now. I assume you're joking about the vets on that Browns team clamoring for....Brian Hoyer, a 2 game wonder. I don't think the aspect of quarterbacking that involves play calling is meaningless at all. Then again, I've always known and appreciated the difference between a quarterback and a passer. I think Manziel has a ways to go on both fronts. A lot easier to give defense fits back then? That's debatable given the lack of restrictions defenses enjoyed back then. Wide hash marks and legalized mugging of a receiver all the way down field are just two of the most obvious counterpoints to that argument. Not to mention OLman not even allowed to extend their arms to block. Totally different animal that once again points to the futility of comparisons across eras. There's a difference between clamoring for Hoyer, which I never said in the first place, and clamoring for an untested rookie in Johnny Football. Point is, Namath was RESPECTED in the locker room the moment he walked in and again, if not for Ewbank's decision to bring him along slowly as he recovered from his injury, he would have started day one. Given the crappy start by Taliaferro, Ewbank would have had a mutiny on his hands if he didn't make the switch. Conversely, Johnny Football is on his way to getting a Troy Vincent greeting from one of the vets before he gets their nod to lead the team on the field. GO BILLS!!!
Gugny Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I was in the Navy with a Taliaferro from downstate. Dude could cook. Got popped for coke twice and I never saw him again.
Mr. WEO Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I don't think the aspect of quarterbacking that involves play calling is meaningless at all. Then again, I've always known and appreciated the difference between a quarterback and a passer. I think Manziel has a ways to go on both fronts. A lot easier to give defense fits back then? That's debatable given the lack of restrictions defenses enjoyed back then. Wide hash marks and legalized mugging of a receiver all the way down field are just two of the most obvious counterpoints to that argument. Not to mention OLman not even allowed to extend their arms to block. Totally different animal that once again points to the futility of comparisons across eras. There's a difference between clamoring for Hoyer, which I never said in the first place, and clamoring for an untested rookie in Johnny Football. Point is, Namath was RESPECTED in the locker room the moment he walked in and again, if not for Ewbank's decision to bring him along slowly as he recovered from his injury, he would have started day one. Given the crappy start by Taliaferro, Ewbank would have had a mutiny on his hands if he didn't make the switch. Conversely, Johnny Football is on his way to getting a Troy Vincent greeting from one of the vets before he gets their nod to lead the team on the field. GO BILLS!!! I'm not sure it's debated elsewhere that the offensive game has gotten far more complex--in no small part due the complexity of modern defenses and the totally different athletes that play them. It's nice that Joe Namath called a lot of his own plays, but that was hardly unusual back then. The Jets won 3 games with Namath as starter. I'm sure the vets were looking for ward to the next season... It's still unclear why the vets would have that much animosity towards JM (and love for a career backup who has thrown for 1200 yards in 5 years), other than the usual rookie stuff (which likely has changed over the years, for the worse). The point of all this is that Namath had the same attitude as JM coming out---and he had medicore college stats as a QB, by any measure. He did well. The comaprison is valid at this point in their careers. The posters who claim JM "sucks" or "will suck" should at least be honest and sya what they really mean: "I hope JM sucks...".
K-9 Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 ... The posters who claim JM "sucks" or "will suck" should at least be honest and sya what they really mean: "I hope JM sucks...". I don't think he sucks nor do I hope he ends up sucking. I think he's got a long ways to go in developing as a QB. And I think he's in for a rude awakening in camp if he keeps making news, which is almost impossible this day and age. And for the third time, while I understand why comparisons to Namath are made, I think they are off base, particularly with regard to their comparative abilities as players. Regardless of era, Namath was ready to play coming out of college. I don't think Manziel is. Both from a physical and mental standpoint. GO BILLS!!!
bbb Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 I was in the Navy with a Taliaferro from downstate. Dude could cook. Got popped for coke twice and I never saw him again. Did he pronounce it TOL-i-ver, which somehow this guy did?
Gugny Posted July 7, 2014 Posted July 7, 2014 Did he pronounce it TOL-i-ver, which somehow this guy did? Tally-a-FAIR-oh.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 Looks like Johnny Football was caught in Vegas over the 4th of July weekend rolling a bill in a lub bathroom. What do you think he could possibly have been doing? http://profootballta...eresting-photo/ Obviously Manziel is doing this so the Browns will cut or trade him to a team that will start him this year. Git'r dun, Whaley!!
maddenboy Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) Apparantly the photo was taken in Austin - not sure if that matters, but it makes it seem less salacious than Vegas. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt here. When I was young, my friends and I did all sorts of stupid things. I even recall rolling up bills just as a joke and sticking them behind our ears and just idiotic stuff like that. Sure, this picture is a bit of smoke, but if he's rolling a bill right there with the intent to snort coke, then where's the picture with the coke? Are you his Public Defender? Is this your closing argument? Are we SURE the earth isnt flat? Manziel can pretty much do all the coke he wants. If he's not in the substance abuse program he gets tested once around training camp and that's it. Cocaine only stays in your system a few days, so there is very, very little chance of it showing up on the tests. If it's not performance enhancing and it's not weed you're not going to piss hot for the NFL. wait. what? I'm sure Lawrence Taylor will be the first to tell you that 'caine didnt help him at all. Actually slowed him down and mellowed him out as he was trying to kill quarterbacks. Alright, lets take some phone calls from our listeners. Lets see . . . oh, here's a guy on line 2 calling himself the Playmaker, calling from Dallas. What's your take on this issue, mr. Playmaker? Edited July 8, 2014 by maddenboy
Beerball Posted July 8, 2014 Posted July 8, 2014 I was in the Navy with a Taliaferro from downstate. Dude could cook. Got popped for coke twice and I never saw him again. That's really not german to this conversation. Though I new a small dude from around Albany who also disappeared.
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